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[StillAWarrior]

Unemployment isn't paid to those who quit.

But I agree with the arguments about pay & risk.

I work with a lot of nursing homes and advise them on issues relating to their employees.  This has been a very significant issue for obvious reasons.  Nurse Aides are not well paid.  At all.  It's very easy to empathize with employees who don't think that $11/hr is worth the risk.  But, as Rocky said, unemployment is not available to those who are able to work but want to stay home because they are scared or those who don't think it's worth it. In order to maintain appropriate (and legally mandated) staffing levels, many nursing home operators have had to explain this fact repeatedly to employees.  Some have quit.  Some have come to work.  Some have learned that they can achieve the same result by simply calling in and saying, "I woke up this morning with a bit of a fever."  There really have been a bunch of very interesting issues relating to the intersection between C-19, FMLA, ADA, stay-at-home orders, unemployment, workers' compensation, etc....so much to read, learn and stay on top of.

For the records, the overwhelming majority of the health care workers have been fantastic.  One nurse I deal with regularly comes to mind:  she came back early from her maternity leave because her "residents needed her."  Amazing.  Broadly speaking, I've seen two types of employees in nursing homes emerge in this crisis:  those who even though they might be scared are rushing in like they've been preparing for this their entire lives, and those who are perfectly willing (maybe even a little too eager) stay home and collect unemployment, PTO or whatever else they can.  Thankfully, the first group is much, much larger than the second.  Not surprisingly, 99% of the calls I get are about those in the second group.

[#UnleashSean]

Unemployment isn't paid to those who quit.

But I agree with the arguments about pay & risk.

Cough Cough, I believe I have a fever and the chills. -> Workman's comp or unemployment.

[rocky_warrior]

Cough Cough, I believe I have a fever and the chills. -> Workman's comp or unemployment.

That's still not how unemployment works.  And healthcare workers can't claim workman's comp for getting sick (I've got healthcare compliance sources).  There's a chance they could claim FMLA - but that doesn't pay $$ either - just allows for time off.

[Hards Alumni]

That's still not how unemployment works.  And healthcare workers can't claim workman's comp for getting sick (I've got healthcare compliance sources).  There's a chance they could claim FMLA - but that doesn't pay $$ either - just allows for time off.

^

[MU82]

Cough Cough, I believe I have a fever and the chills. -> Workman's comp or unemployment.

Tens of thousands faking sickness now. More than that if you count the ones faking death.

[StillAWarrior]

That's still not how unemployment works.  And healthcare workers can't claim workman's comp for getting sick (I've got healthcare compliance sources).  There's a chance they could claim FMLA - but that doesn't pay $$ either - just allows for time off.

I can only speak for Ohio, but both of those statements are incorrect here. If an employee is experiencing COVID-19 symptoms and is asked to stay home by the employer, a doctor or public health authority (and they will be) he or she is eligible for unemployment. But first they will get two weeks of emergency paid sick leave under FFCRA. Also, health care workers are very likely eligible for workers’ comp if they were at greater risk of infection because of their job (and they almost certainly are).

[#UnleashSean]

 

That's still not how unemployment works.  And healthcare workers can't claim workman's comp for getting sick (I've got healthcare compliance sources).  There's a chance they could claim FMLA - but that doesn't pay $$ either - just allows for time off.

Workmans comp is paid off if an employee could have reasonably recieved it at work.

Unemployment is given if an employee is forcibly removed from work due to covid symptoms.

[rocky_warrior]

I can only speak for Ohio, but both of those statements are incorrect here. If an employee is experiencing COVID-19 symptoms and is asked to stay home by the employer, a doctor or public health authority (and they will be) he or she is eligible for unemployment. But first they will get two weeks of emergency paid sick leave under FFCRA. Also, health care workers are very likely eligible for workers’ comp if they were at greater risk of infection because of their job (and they almost certainly are).

Thanks for the clarification, as my Pex comments showed, I can't speak for every state or local rules. But in general, and most situations, healthcare workers can't claim workman's compensation for getting sick at work. Nor can the rest of us , the system would blow up otherwise.  Also...prove you got sick from work, eh?

 

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Thanks for the clarification, as my Pex comments showed, I can't speak for every state or local rules. But in general, and most situations, healthcare workers can't claim workman's compensation for getting sick at work. Nor can the rest of us , the system would blow up otherwise.  Also...prove you got sick from work, eh?

 

That's the key with work comp and sickness.  You have to prove that you were only exposed at work.  Been to the grocery store, Walgreens, talk to the neighbors, etc., not going to be covered.

There is coverage for industrial injuries, such as asbestos exposure (My name's Doug and I have mesotheloma), loss of hearing due to machinery, etc.  But those "diseases" have to occur over a long period of time.  The Rona wouldn't qualify, IMO. 

Of course, this hasn't been challenged in court yet, so we'll see.  Much of work comp is common law & statute based, not policy based, so the courts could have more latitude than claimants will probably have with other types of insurance claims (loss of income, liability for someone getting sick at your place of business, etc.)

[GooooMarquette]

That's the key with work comp and sickness.  You have to prove that you were only exposed at work.  Been to the grocery store, Walgreens, talk to the neighbors, etc., not going to be covered.

There is coverage for industrial injuries, such as asbestos exposure (My name's Doug and I have mesotheloma), loss of hearing due to machinery, etc.  But those "diseases" have to occur over a long period of time.  The Rona wouldn't qualify, IMO. 

Of course, this hasn't been challenged in court yet, so we'll see.  Much of work comp is common law & statute based, not policy based, so the courts could have more latitude than claimants will probably have with other types of insurance claims (loss of income, liability for someone getting sick at your place of business, etc.)

It varies by state, and some states have new regulations specific to COVID. Here are some FAQs about what MN just did:

https://www.dli.mn.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/COVID-19_work_comp_presumption_faqs.pdf

The new law provides that employees on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic, as described in Question 2, are presumed to have contracted a workers’ compensation occupational disease if they become ill with COVID-19.


It doesn’t apply to everyone, but it’s a pretty big step forward.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

It varies by state, and some states have new regulations specific to COVID. Here are some FAQs about what MN just did:

https://www.dli.mn.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/COVID-19_work_comp_presumption_faqs.pdf

The new law provides that employees on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic, as described in Question 2, are presumed to have contracted a workers’ compensation occupational disease if they become ill with COVID-19.


It doesn’t apply to everyone, but it’s a pretty big step forward.

good to know, thanks.

[HouWarrior]

I work with a lot of nursing homes and advise them on issues relating to their employees.  This has been a very significant issue for obvious reasons.  Nurse Aides are not well paid.  At all.  It's very easy to empathize with employees who don't think that $11/hr is worth the risk.  But, as Rocky said, unemployment is not available to those who are able to work but want to stay home because they are scared or those who don't think it's worth it. In order to maintain appropriate (and legally mandated) staffing levels, many nursing home operators have had to explain this fact repeatedly to employees.  Some have quit.  Some have come to work.  Some have learned that they can achieve the same result by simply calling in and saying, "I woke up this morning with a bit of a fever."  There really have been a bunch of very interesting issues relating to the intersection between C-19, FMLA, ADA, stay-at-home orders, unemployment, workers' compensation, etc....so much to read, learn and stay on top of.

For the records, the overwhelming majority of the health care workers have been fantastic.  One nurse I deal with regularly comes to mind:  she came back early from her maternity leave because her "residents needed her."  Amazing.  Broadly speaking, I've seen two types of employees in nursing homes emerge in this crisis:  those who even though they might be scared are rushing in like they've been preparing for this their entire lives, and those who are perfectly willing (maybe even a little too eager) stay home and collect unemployment, PTO or whatever else they can.  Thankfully, the first group is much, much larger than the second.  Not surprisingly, 99% of the calls I get are about those in the second group.

I have a client with 23 senior living facilities in Tx Ok and Ark... none are nursing most are part assisted/memory care and part independent. I kind of shuddered on reading your multi faceted employment issues. As my client owns the properties and also operates an in house management co we did the in house single employer stuff too...I hated those times.

10 years ago we had this client go  back to using a single purpose co who is co employer with a PEO...now client still owns and manages but all personnel are employed by that SPco and the PEO. We pay extra $ to PEO, but still have the rights of supervision and to hire and fire in the SPco but thankfully, the PEO deals with all the other "employee" detail  issues you mention.

It has really freed up management during this challenging time. Also it insulates property from all  liability and  employment claims. Our structure  involves four SP entities for each property (a REIT, an operating co. a management co and the "employer" co ) along with an outside contract PEO.  PM me if you are interested for your folks; I represented a large PEO and there are definitely good and bad ones.

I also am grateful to this client for freeing me from those near daily employee questions and defending the EEOC/lawsuits. At its peak 25% of Harris county suits were employment based . With this client (about 1200 employees) we and our PEO havent had a suit in five years. Knock on wood

[HouWarrior]

Sorry for not shopping the threads to find one better suited, but for me this is close to home.

Art Howe age 73, former Astros player and later an Astros manager, who also managed the A's as portrayed in "Moneyball " is in the ICU here in Houston fighting COVID. Art is really a nice guy; he had a knack for bringing along young players and for getting better winning records than expected with his personnel. Hope he makes it.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29176723/former-astros-manager-art-howe-icu-due-coronavirus

[MU82]

Sorry for not shopping the threads to find one better suited, but for me this is close to home.

Art Howe age 73, former Astros player and later an Astros manager, who also managed the A's as portrayed in "Moneyball " is in the ICU here in Houston fighting COVID. Art is really a nice guy; he had a knack for bringing along young players and for getting better winning records than expected with his personnel. Hope he makes it.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29176723/former-astros-manager-art-howe-icu-due-coronavirus

Yeah, I heard this too. Very sad. I didn't know him but I also heard very good things about him. Here's hoping he pulls through.

[MU82]

We have been best friends with another couple since 1984, when we all lived in Madison.

Their 31-year-old son, who has spina bifida, has now been diagnosed with COVID-19, the poor guy.

His dad said: "The doctors aren't overly concerned, as his blood oxygen levels were fine, and his lungs showed only a small amount of fluid, so we expect he'll make a full
recovery. But there is no telling how long he'll be in the hospital."

In addition, our friends are now under quarantine for at least the next 14 days.

We had been talking about getting together with them in June, but that's not gonna happen. Obviously, it's of secondary importance now.

[GooooMarquette]

My daughter in Fargo got notice that someone in her apartment building is COVID positive. No details about stage or severity, which is understandable but frustrating. Fortunately, my daughter has spent most of her time in her apartment and been has been very careful whenever she has gone out.

[injuryBug]

My office of about 200 has been WFH since March.  We have had about 10 employees that work in the office since March.  June 15th was to be phase 1 of our re-opening and 20-30 additional employees were to start coming into the office.  That has been canceled since last week 1 person tested positive who had been in the office last week.

I appreciate the concern for health and safety but on the other hand do not like the panic it represents.  At some point we need to figure out ways to continue moving forward.  Contact tracing has been done so have those that have been in contact get tested and WFH for the next week or 2 weeks.

[Galway Eagle]

First cousin, who just graduated from U of Arizona's nursing school mind you. Just tested positive after going to an open bar up with a bunch of her fellow recent nursing grads that were visiting her in northern Illinois.

I do not trust young medical professionals.

[MU82]

I started my journalism career with the AP and spent 16 fun years there.

This past week, two AP journalists died due to complications with COVID-19.

1. DAKAR, Senegal (AP) — John Bompengo, who covered Congo’s political turmoil as a freelance photographer and video journalist for The Associated Press over the course of 16 years has died, relatives said Sunday. He was 52.

The cause of death was complications due to the coronavirus. Bompengo had been hospitalized for about a week but his condition rapidly deteriorated Friday and he died the following day.

Bompengo had contributed to AP since 2004, including coverage of the Ebola outbreak in northern Congo, in 2018.

Andrew Drake, the AP’s Africa news director who also served as senior video producer for West Africa from 2011 to 2018, remembered Bompengo as a “stalwart colleague and an impressive storyteller.”

“John could talk his way in and out of places where others couldn’t to get striking images,” Drake said. “He had great contacts and friends across the entire country. Whether news was breaking in Kinshasa or across the river in Brazzaville, John was always on top of things, fast to arrive on the scene and with a plan to get the best pictures.

“He was committed to covering the flow of Congo’s sometime violent politics, always to be found at the heart of the action on the streets taking photos and video, but soon after he would be back in his suit covering the president.”

Bompengo is survived by his wife and nine children.

2. NEW YORK (AP) — Gregory Katz, an acclaimed correspondent for The Associated Press in London who recently led the news cooperative’s coverage of Brexit and the election of Boris Johnson as prime minister, died Tuesday. He had been ill in recent months and had contracted COVID-19. He was 67.

His career over four decades took him across the globe, from Latin America to Africa, Asia to Russia, the Middle East and Western Europe. He was part of the team in 1994 that won the Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting at the Dallas Morning News for a series on violence against women around the world.

A native of Westport, Connecticut, Katz also wrote frequently about music, particularly his lifelong passion for rock ’n’ roll. He was the only journalist inside the Dakota Apartments on the night in 1980 when John Lennon was murdered and wrote a definitive account of the killing for Rolling Stone magazine.

He recalled how as a pony-tailed teenager still in high school, he had hitchhiked to the Woodstock music festival, sleeping on the muddy ground and drinking in the historic rock concert.

Katz was “a wonderful reporter and lyrical writer,” said Scott Kraft, managing editor of the Los Angeles Times and a friend of more than three decades. “I admired his work, and I cherished his friendship. He was such a generous spirit.”

Katz joined the AP in London as a correspondent in 2008 and became acting bureau chief in 2013. He was a familiar figure to many as a regular panelist on the BBC’s “Dateline London” program, discussing world events with other foreign correspondents.

A week before the 2016 Brexit vote, Katz wrote a story from Dover, England, that foreshadowed the surprise narrow victory of those advocating that the United Kingdom leave the European Union.

“Don’t try to talk to Brian Hall about economics, trading blocs or the value of the British pound. He won’t listen,” Katz wrote. “There’s one factor — and one factor only — shaping his view (in the vote): immigration.”

Colleagues recalled Katz’s fondness for fine cigars. He occasionally wrote freelance articles for the magazine Cigar Aficionado.

Katz underwent cancer surgery in London in February. He went home for several days afterward but suffered complications and returned to the hospital. While convalescing, he became infected with the coronavirus and fell ill with pneumonia.

He is survived by his wife of 31 years, architect Beatrice Sennewald, and their daughter Sophia, 23, who recently graduated from the University of Sheffield and now works as a trainee therapist.

+++

John was 52 and had no underlying conditions ... except, perhaps, for being stationed in Africa. Left behind 9 kids. Sad.

Greg was 67 and had cancer, but he had been a survivor before and might have survived again if not for coronavirus. Brutal.

[HouWarrior]

Today I spoke with a 20 yr plus client , age 64, who lives in London and Madrid. He got stuck in Madrid at the worst time, and , of course, caught the COVID virus. Survived after 3 weeks in hospital. Whew.

Even though now healthy, COVID impacts linger. Asking about my large fee owed , he explained that first,  the Russians (where his oil interests are) were in a price war with the Saudis, so dividends were suspended Q1 and Q2. Now,  with the suspension over,  my funds are still stuck in Moscow as Spain wont let him go there (in person pickup/signature required for all 6-7 figure sums). I cant leave my House in Houston, EU doesnt want USAers coming in, and Russia is now behind the Iron COVID Curtain.

The Cold War maybe over but he and I were laughing that now we are stuck in a COVID/Cold War. Fallout shelters have given way to sheltering in place and duck and cover gave way to cover your mouth.

[JWags85]

Spent the March through June locked down in NYC, no issues.

Been back in Wisconsin with my GF for the last month...and she just was diagnosed as positive. She felt pretty crappy on Thur-Sat of last week. Got a test at CVS Minute Clinic on Friday...still no results.

She’s been carrying an on and off fever since, so we went to Urgent Care yesterday. Got a test and a chest x Ray. Put her on a Z Pack just in case it’s light pneumonia forming. Got the call this morning that she’s positive and public health will be following up.

I’m heading back to get a test myself this afternoon. I’ve had no symptoms. A random cough and headache here and there, what sort of feels like chest congestion but it’s random and never persists. I imagine it’s largely psychosomatic from the worry around her and the large amount of stress I’ve been under otherwise.

Honestly will be shocked if I don’t test positive and frankly hope I do so I can donate antibody plasma when I’m done quaranting

[Hards Alumni]

Spent the March through June locked down in NYC, no issues.

Been back in Wisconsin with my GF for the last month...and she just was diagnosed as positive. She felt pretty crappy on Thur-Sat of last week. Got a test at CVS Minute Clinic on Friday...still no results.

She’s been carrying an on and off fever since, so we went to Urgent Care yesterday. Got a test and a chest x Ray. Put her on a Z Pack just in case it’s light pneumonia forming. Got the call this morning that she’s positive and public health will be following up.

I’m heading back to get a test myself this afternoon. I’ve had no symptoms. A random cough and headache here and there, what sort of feels like chest congestion but it’s random and never persists. I imagine it’s largely psychosomatic from the worry around her and the large amount of stress I’ve been under otherwise.

Honestly will be shocked if I don’t test positive and frankly hope I do so I can donate antibody plasma when I’m done quaranting

I was wondering who would be first around here.  It is pretty crazy to think about spending all that time in the epicenter and not catching it, and then getting back to Wisconsin and catching it. 

Personally, I hope you don't test positive.  We still don't know what the long term effects of this are.  Having said that, if you are positive, I hope its mild with no long term effects.  And good on you if you are allowed to donate antibody plasma.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Best of luck on a quick recovery/recoveries wags.

[JWags85]

Best of luck on a quick recovery/recoveries wags.

Appreciate it

I was wondering who would be first around here.  It is pretty crazy to think about spending all that time in the epicenter and not catching it, and then getting back to Wisconsin and catching it. 

Personally, I hope you don't test positive.  We still don't know what the long term effects of this are.  Having said that, if you are positive, I hope its mild with no long term effects.  And good on you if you are allowed to donate antibody plasma.

Welp. They won’t allowed me to get tested as I’m not presenting symptoms.  What a joke. And the PA working yesterday who told me to come in is not working today so I can’t leverage her.

My only option as of now is community testing with its 4-7 day turnaround. Hopefully I can give her a call tomorrow and work around it.

[Hards Alumni]

Appreciate it

Welp. They won’t allowed me to get tested as I’m not presenting symptoms.  What a joke. And the PA working yesterday who told me to come in is not working today so I can’t leverage her.

My only option as of now is community testing with its 4-7 day turnaround. Hopefully I can give her a call tomorrow and work around it.

That's terrible.  You've clearly been exposed.  Just because you're not presenting symptoms... this is why we have problems.