collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by Goose
[Today at 07:14:37 AM]


Big East 23-24 NCAA and NIT Results by 1SE
[Today at 06:38:02 AM]


NCstate fan scouts Marquette by brewcity77
[Today at 06:05:33 AM]


Katz has MU in Final Four by Uncle Rico
[Today at 05:59:46 AM]


UNLEASH THE POWER OF SCOOP!!! by Jay Bee
[Today at 05:13:02 AM]


Three Years Ago Today... by Newsdreams
[March 27, 2024, 11:34:10 PM]


Kam Jones 1st Round Mock - The Ringer by PGsHeroes32
[March 27, 2024, 10:40:15 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: Move Koby off ball  (Read 8477 times)

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11506
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2020, 08:27:00 AM »
Symir does one thing well.  Makes decisive passes so the ball moves when he's on the floor.  But he turns it over too much, and before yesterday hadn't made a basket in a month.  Furthermore he struggles on defense, though is getting better.

At this point Wojo isn't going to change things.  And that's fine.  But I think Symir is going to be good.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22723
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2020, 09:41:21 AM »
I've been trying to stay upbeat about Koby, a good defender who helped us greatly on offense in a few games. But when he struggles, he really struggles ... and last night was tough to watch.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

MUfan12

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5592
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2020, 09:44:39 AM »
I've been trying to stay upbeat about Koby, a good defender who helped us greatly on offense in a few games. But when he struggles, he really struggles ... and last night was tough to watch.

Some guys you can trust to play their way out of a funk. Koby get demonstrative and lets it get in his head.

There were a few times last night where I thought Wojo should have taken him out, if only for a quick mental reset.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7801
  • Js for days
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2020, 09:54:58 AM »
Koby is a tough one to figure out.  I don't really want to bad mouth him, but I think its time he plays a little less. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

BCHoopster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2020, 10:04:22 AM »
It will be very interesting when they play St. Johns as they press the whole game.

Skatastrophy

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5516
  • ✅ Verified Member
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2020, 11:42:22 AM »
I've been trying to stay upbeat about Koby, a good defender who helped us greatly on offense in a few games. But when he struggles, he really struggles ... and last night was tough to watch.

+1

He has all the skills. I think he just needs to work on his mental game. Once he gets tilted, which is easy to see, he starts making mistakes.

Edit: To add to this, when Koby gets tilted he has a very bad habit of lighting up his teammates. He needs to figure out how to "walk away" when he gets frustrated before he gets the rest of the team on tilt, too.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 12:32:28 PM by Skatastrophy »

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2513
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2020, 04:50:06 PM »
Last night may not have been Koby's best performance. But he still played a big role in beating Georgetown by 21 points.

Only two players -- seniors Markus Howard and Sacar Anim -- spent more time on the court. This despite the fact that Koby didn't score a single point, and only took 3 shots in all.

To me, that suggests Wojo values Koby for more than just scoring.

• Excellent on-ball defense
• 2nd on the team in rebounds per game (5.2 rpg)
• 3rd on the team in defensive rebounding (17.0 DR% per KenPom)
• 1st on the team in assists per game (3.3 apg)
• 2nd on the team in assist rate (21.4 ARate)
• 2nd on the team in free throw rate (55.5 FTRate)

The comparison to Joseph Chartouny isn't worth discussing. Yes, I'd like to see Koby shoot more consistently and cut down on the turnovers. But even on an off night offensively, Koby is still one of the most important contributors to this team.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 05:00:54 PM by Marcus92 »
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2513
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2020, 04:59:00 PM »
Also consider: What if Koby's fiery outbursts on the court turn out to be a positive for this team instead of a negative? It seems clear he's a player who holds himself and his teammates to high standards. His visible frustration shows that he expects better. Can he harness that emotion to help Marquette elevate its play?
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

Loose Cannon

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2845
  • Voltaire says Hi
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2020, 07:04:19 PM »
l
" Love is Space and Time measured by the Heart. "  M Proust

Stretchdeltsig

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3191
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2020, 07:58:19 AM »
Koby's a veteran who should be playing better. Maybe the BE is too tough for him. Sy is a smooth passer and excellent shooter who will be a great leader at point guard next year.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22723
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2020, 08:15:19 AM »
Last night may not have been Koby's best performance. But he still played a big role in beating Georgetown by 21 points.

Only two players -- seniors Markus Howard and Sacar Anim -- spent more time on the court. This despite the fact that Koby didn't score a single point, and only took 3 shots in all.

To me, that suggests Wojo values Koby for more than just scoring.

• Excellent on-ball defense
• 2nd on the team in rebounds per game (5.2 rpg)
• 3rd on the team in defensive rebounding (17.0 DR% per KenPom)
• 1st on the team in assists per game (3.3 apg)
• 2nd on the team in assist rate (21.4 ARate)
• 2nd on the team in free throw rate (55.5 FTRate)

The comparison to Joseph Chartouny isn't worth discussing. Yes, I'd like to see Koby shoot more consistently and cut down on the turnovers. But even on an off night offensively, Koby is still one of the most important contributors to this team.

I appreciate all of this about Koby. Totally agree about comparisons with Cartoony - ridiculous. In addition to the positives you list above, I feel totally confident with Koby at the FT line when we're trying to protect a lead.

However, as the PG, he needs to take care of the ball better. Period. He does not have natural PG skills and probably shouldn't play the position -- I mean, what kind of PG drives into the middle of the lane and then abruptly stops, seemingly with absolutely no plan (and does this over and over again)? Unfortunately, he has proven to be a not very good shooter, so he's not ideal off the ball, either.

So it's an interesting conundrum for Wojo. Koby is one of our best defenders and has the other attributes you mentioned, but his negatives are glaring when Markus is being defended well and the others aren't hitting open shots.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

jesmu84

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6029
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2020, 08:23:40 AM »
I appreciate all of this about Koby. Totally agree about comparisons with Cartoony - ridiculous. In addition to the positives you list above, I feel totally confident with Koby at the FT line when we're trying to protect a lead.

However, as the PG, he needs to take care of the ball better. Period. He does not have natural PG skills and probably shouldn't play the position -- I mean, what kind of PG drives into the middle of the lane and then abruptly stops, seemingly with absolutely no plan (and does this over and over again)? Unfortunately, he has proven to be a not very good shooter, so he's not ideal off the ball, either.

So it's an interesting conundrum for Wojo. Koby is one of our best defenders and has the other attributes you mentioned, but his negatives are glaring when Markus is being defended well and the others aren't hitting open shots.

Perhaps next year he'll slide over to the Sacar role - off ball, defense, slashing, 3s

21Jumpstreet

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2020, 08:25:28 AM »
Swap Koby and Sacar, I actually like when Sacar runs the point—can slash, shoot, is big, senior, leader.

Litehouse

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2211
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2020, 08:35:26 AM »
Sacar is an efficient dribbler, he only dribbles to get from point A to point B.  Koby just does all kinds of unnecessary dribbling without moving, which leads to his turnovers and bogs down the offense.

jsglow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7378
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2020, 09:13:32 AM »
Also consider: What if Koby's fiery outbursts on the court turn out to be a positive for this team instead of a negative? It seems clear he's a player who holds himself and his teammates to high standards. His visible frustration shows that he expects better. Can he harness that emotion to help Marquette elevate its play?

I'm going with 'this'.  I remember the NMD game.  That's when Koby did the faux flop thing and Wojo went apesh*t on him quickly getting him to the bench.  He refocused and contributed significantly.  This is in his head.  His maturity and willingness to be coached over the summer will determine his role next year.  The talent is there.

franklinjerry

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2020, 07:52:57 AM »
One of the rare topics we all seem to agree. I've thought of swapping Sacar and Koby as well. Sacar does not try to speed-up when breaking the press. He sees the floor much better and dribbles with a purpose unlike Koby.

Samir is the only viable PG option on the returning or incoming roster for next season. While I disagree that he's a great shooter, he gives you hope for ball distribution. Greg isn't the answer. At best I see Koby playing Sacars' role next year, with less minutes. He does defend and rebound and should be on the floor at the end of games due to his free throw ability.

WarriorFan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1629
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #41 on: February 29, 2020, 07:59:16 AM »
Koby has done a heck of a job on defense.  He's not shooting well and he's had one bad game in the PG role.  Moving him off the ball is good as a change up for a few minutes but he's the PG, and he's got the size and strength and skill to do it just fine. 

Over-reacting after one bad game is not a good idea. 
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

franklinjerry

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #42 on: February 29, 2020, 08:52:15 AM »
It has not been ONE bad game.

Mr. Sand-Knit

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #43 on: February 29, 2020, 08:55:28 AM »
Last night may not have been Koby's best performance. But he still played a big role in beating Georgetown by 21 points.

Only two players -- seniors Markus Howard and Sacar Anim -- spent more time on the court. This despite the fact that Koby didn't score a single point, and only took 3 shots in all.

To me, that suggests Wojo values Koby for more than just scoring.

• Excellent on-ball defense
• 2nd on the team in rebounds per game (5.2 rpg)
• 3rd on the team in defensive rebounding (17.0 DR% per KenPom)
• 1st on the team in assists per game (3.3 apg)
• 2nd on the team in assist rate (21.4 ARate)
• 2nd on the team in free throw rate (55.5 FTRate)

The comparison to Joseph Chartouny isn't worth discussing. Yes, I'd like to see Koby shoot more consistently and cut down on the turnovers. But even on an off night offensively, Koby is still one of the most important contributors to this team.

Ummmm koby was a +\- of a -9 in a game his team won by 21 points.  Which is remarkably hard to do!!  His teammates for the most part were all in +12 to +25 range
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

Mr. Sand-Knit

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #44 on: February 29, 2020, 08:59:02 AM »
I appreciate all of this about Koby. Totally agree about comparisons with Cartoony - ridiculous. In addition to the positives you list above, I feel totally confident with Koby at the FT line when we're trying to protect a lead.

However, as the PG, he needs to take care of the ball better. Period. He does not have natural PG skills and probably shouldn't play the position -- I mean, what kind of PG drives into the middle of the lane and then abruptly stops, seemingly with absolutely no plan (and does this over and over again)? Unfortunately, he has proven to be a not very good shooter, so he's not ideal off the ball, either.

So it's an interesting conundrum for Wojo. Koby is one of our best defenders and has the other attributes you mentioned, but his negatives are glaring when Markus is being defended well and the others aren't hitting open shots.



You put him in sacars spot next year at the 3.  3rd ball handler occasional shooter n driver.  His playing time is dependent based on his effectiveness to winning but the ballhandling n decision making is reduced significantly

Im not suggesting doing anything of the sort this year.  Sacar is ok initiating offense occasionally but his handle n decision making is a bad if not worse than kobys, we jyst see it in smaller doses.  This year its not perfect but it is what it is, sy, koby, markus at the pg
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 09:02:20 AM by Mr. Sand-Knit »
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

BCHoopster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #45 on: February 29, 2020, 11:34:01 AM »
Hopefully there’s enough competition next year. That Koby either plays better or sees more pine time.  Do not see him playing SF next year as Garcia will play PF and Bailey, Cain or OSA at the SF.  I really believe that Mane is the key ingredient at guard next year, somebody with true quickness.

PGsHeroes32

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13623
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #46 on: February 29, 2020, 11:41:34 AM »
Koby has done a heck of a job on defense.  He's not shooting well and he's had one bad game in the PG role.  Moving him off the ball is good as a change up for a few minutes but he's the PG, and he's got the size and strength and skill to do it just fine. 

Over-reacting after one bad game is not a good idea.

Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

franklinjerry

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #47 on: February 29, 2020, 03:38:31 PM »
Gosh his second bad game?

Mr. Sand-Knit

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #48 on: February 29, 2020, 06:20:10 PM »
Glad to see they moved him to the bench today
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

muwarrior97

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 833
  • Team Whiny Fan
Re: Move Koby off ball
« Reply #49 on: February 29, 2020, 07:50:32 PM »
Move Koby to the pines
#RGV #ReturnTheWarriorMindset