NCAA investigations cont.

[MU82]

These allegations against Louisville are so bad that the NCAA just might have to punish Kentucky Wesleyan College or something.

[WarriorDad]

They use the eye test instead of the evidence? How Scoopy!

Wouldn't they use evidence and also interviews of people as part of the compilation of evidence?  Thought investigators usually interview people in person to help discern credibility and a better understanding if they are trustworthy. 

[wadesworld]

Wouldn't they use evidence and also interviews of people as part of the compilation of evidence?  Thought investigators usually interview people in person to help discern credibility and a better understanding if they are trustworthy.

“We’d hammer these guys, but covid so our hands our tied.”

Convenient.

As always, the NCAA gets it right.

[Billy Hoyle]

Then they haven’t been held accountable for anything.  Gotcha

They’ve been charged. You yahoos like to play the “they’re so mad they’ll put Murray State on probation.” And yet here L-Ville is having to defend themselves. Trust the process...even if you’re insecure with your lack of knowledge about it.

[Billy Hoyle]

What about interviews and such?  Isn’t there a reason law enforcement does interrogations at the precinct and not via the phone?  They can tell if you are lying, sweating, eye contact.  Overselling it a bit here, but if there were interviews still to be conducted I would think COVID only slows that process down.

Enforcement has been on campus. The interviews are generally done in person. Sometimes people are flown to Indy. My buddy from MU had to go through that. He was furious about it and didn’t even work for that school anymore.

Of course, the NCAA doesn’t have subpoena power, the biggest issue. That’s why they couldn’t get Nevin Shapiro in person and resorted to illegal activities that got the lead investigator fired.

It’s likely the interviews have already been conducted and the staff had been in Indy putting together the charges. Now they have to follow the process and timeline to allow for Louisville’s response.

[Uncle Rico]

They’ve been charged. You yahoos like to play the “they’re so mad they’ll put Murray State on probation.” And yet here L-Ville is having to defend themselves. Trust the process...even if you’re insecure with your lack of knowledge about it.

I’m quite confident with my knowledge of the matter and how the NCAA operates

[jesmu84]

They’ve been charged. You yahoos like to play the “they’re so mad they’ll put Murray State on probation.” And yet here L-Ville is having to defend themselves. Trust the process...even if you’re insecure with your lack of knowledge about it.

Just curious... How long do we have to go from the initial allegations until we can say there is no significant punishment being given? How long does the "process" take?

[muguru]

Seth Davis

@SethDavisHoops


BREAKING: The NCAA has delivered its reply to Kansas' response to the Notice of Allegations regarding potential violations in its basketball program,
@TheAthleticCBB
 has learned. KU likely to issue  statement and/or docs today or later this week.

[Billy Hoyle]

Just curious... How long do we have to go from the initial allegations until we can say there is no significant punishment being given? How long does the "process" take?

So first there's the notice of inquiry then the investigation. That could take a while depending on cooperation. After that is the notice of allegations and the school has 90 days to give a written response to that. Usually, they lawyer up for that (usually BSK or Ice Miller, they're the experts in the field. In fact, the dude who got fired for being overzealous on the Miami investigation is now with Ice Miller). Then the in-person hearings are scheduled and the parties are flown to Indy for that. The COI is mostly from individuals from outside of athletics: college presidents, attorneys, professors, general counsel. There' s usually an AD and a former coach too.

There's a new process that both Memphis and NC State are headed to, the independent accountable resolution process. All individuals from outside of athletics and the NCAA. There is no appeal. NC State got kicked there because of lack of cooperation, apparently, Gottfried's response was very adversarial.

[jesmu84]

So first there's the notice of inquiry then the investigation. That could take a while depending on cooperation. After that is the notice of allegations and the school has 90 days to give a written response to that. Usually, they lawyer up for that (usually BSK or Ice Miller, they're the experts in the field. In fact, the dude who got fired for being overzealous on the Miami investigation is now with Ice Miller). Then the in-person hearings are scheduled and the parties are flown to Indy for that. The COI is mostly from individuals from outside of athletics: college presidents, attorneys, professors, general counsel. There' s usually an AD and a former coach too.

There's a new process that both Memphis and NC State are headed to, the independent accountable resolution process. All individuals from outside of athletics and the NCAA. There is no appeal. NC State got kicked there because of lack of cooperation, apparently, Gottfried's response was very adversarial.

And the timeline of these events generally ranges about ...?

[muguru]

So first there's the notice of inquiry then the investigation. That could take a while depending on cooperation. After that is the notice of allegations and the school has 90 days to give a written response to that. Usually, they lawyer up for that (usually BSK or Ice Miller, they're the experts in the field. In fact, the dude who got fired for being overzealous on the Miami investigation is now with Ice Miller). Then the in-person hearings are scheduled and the parties are flown to Indy for that. The COI is mostly from individuals from outside of athletics: college presidents, attorneys, professors, general counsel. There' s usually an AD and a former coach too.

There's a new process that both Memphis and NC State are headed to, the independent accountable resolution process. All individuals from outside of athletics and the NCAA. There is no appeal. NC State got kicked there because of lack of cooperation, apparently, Gottfried's response was very adversarial.

See, this is my problem...it's how long the process takes. To me it shouldn't. here's my problem with it...the school will ALWAYS drag it out as long as they can to their benefit. That pisses me off that they are allowed to kick the can down the road for that long. For example...when Kansas's notice got sent out originally it was before this last season started..now in the end it didn't matter, but to me, I'd like to see the punishment occur in that current season. Why?/ because KU this past year had a National Championship caliber team...so let's say they ended up winning it, and the following year is when their punishment comes down. Then they of course make the tourney but their team isn't quite as good as the previous years...so they get a post season ban, do you think they will really care at that point?? They just won a National Championship the prvious year and that's all they care about. Even if the NCAA strips them of that title, it's essentially meaningless.

For things like this 5 level 1 violations, the ONLY punishment that will really hurt and the only thing the fans, program really care about is post season bans. A year isn't good enough...I'd like to see MULTIPLE years of post season bans, on top of recruiting restrictions etc. make it really hurt, so the program takes many years to recover. I feel that way about any program that gets even 1 level one violation...the punishment has to REALLY hurt.

[Uncle Rico]

See, this is my problem...it's how long the process takes. To me it shouldn't. here's my problem with it...the school will ALWAYS drag it out as long as they can to their benefit. That pisses me off that they are allowed to kick the can down the road for that long. For example...when Kansas's notice got sent out originally it was before this last season started..now in the end it didn't matter, but to me, I'd like to see the punishment occur in that current season. Why?/ because KU this past year had a National Championship caliber team...so let's say they ended up winning it, and the following year is when their punishment comes down. Then they of course make the tourney but their team isn't quite as good as the previous years...so they get a post season ban, do you think they will really care at that point?? They just won a National Championship the prvious year and that's all they care about. Even if the NCAA strips them of that title, it's essentially meaningless.

For things like this 5 level 1 violations, the ONLY punishment that will really hurt and the only thing the fans, program really care about is post season bans. A year isn't good enough...I'd like to see MULTIPLE years of post season bans, on top of recruiting restrictions etc. make it really hurt, so the program takes many years to recover. I feel that way about any program that gets even 1 level one violation...the punishment has to REALLY hurt.

Kansas should get the Presidential Medal of Freedom

[muguru]

Kansas should get the Presidential Medal of Freedom

Give it a rest...you're an insufferable little pretty boy and your HATRED for the NCAA, seems almost personal. So tell us Rico, did they do something to YOU or a family member personally that makes you hate them so much?? I guarantee you they did not. Do you hate your employer that much too?? What the NCAA does or does not do has ZERO effect on you personally. None whatsoever. we get it, you hate them..it doesn't need to be repeated constantly...There's only one other instance I can think of where someone is HATED this much by someone and ironically enough, you're one that hates him too. Not surprised. That really tells me all I need to know.

[Uncle Rico]

Give it a rest...you're an insufferable little pretty boy and your HATRED for the NCAA, seems almost personal. So tell us Rico, did they do something to YOU or a family member personally that makes you hate them so much?? I guarantee you they did not. Do you hate your employer that much too?? What the NCAA does or does not do has ZERO effect on you personally. None whatsoever. we get it, you hate them..it doesn't need to be repeated constantly...There's only one other instance I can think of where someone is HATED this much by someone and ironically enough, you're one that hates him too. Not surprised. That really tells me all I need to know.

I’m simply not a fan of morally bankrupt organizations built on the backs of student athletes who are treated like cattle. 

[muguru]

I’m simply not a fan of morally bankrupt organizations built on the backs of student athletes who are treated like cattle.

LMAO, you're getting your NIL soon, maybe then you'll shut up about it. Doubtful, but maybe. Are the athletes being forced to go to college?? Or are they doing it on their own free will knowing what they are getting themselves into before hand?? They've got options, right?? No one on this earth MAKES them go to college.

[Uncle Rico]

LMAO, you're getting your NIL soon, maybe then you'll shut up about it. Doubtful, but maybe. Are the athletes being forced to go to college?? Or are they doing it on their own free will knowing what they are getting themselves into before hand?? They've got options, right?? No one on this earth MAKES them go to college.

Hopefully, the NIL allows student athletes to maximize their earning potential.  The initial proposal hampers that.  Luckily, the federal government is scoffing at it and with bipartisan support, the NCAA will have to bring more to the table.

Also, it’s hopeful the G-League continues to attract top talent and provides a good developmental system for the sport of basketball.  That’s a much better option for top talent if the league is serious about development because college basketball isn’t at the moment.

You ask players to play for the name on the uniform.  Interestingly enough, many fans of college teams quickly turn on that same uniform when the team performs poorly and aren’t afraid to attack the name on the back either.  If it’s all about wins and losses when supporting or not supporting student athletes, then the NCAA isn’t amateur at all.  It simply hasn’t been for decades.

[muguru]

Hopefully, the NIL allows student athletes to maximize their earning potential.  The initial proposal hampers that.  Luckily, the federal government is scoffing at it and with bipartisan support, the NCAA will have to bring more to the table.

Also, it’s hopeful the G-League continues to attract top talent and provides a good developmental system for the sport of basketball.  That’s a much better option for top talent if the league is serious about development because college basketball isn’t at the moment.

You ask players to play for the name on the uniform.  Interestingly enough, many fans of college teams quickly turn on that same uniform when the team performs poorly and aren’t afraid to attack the name on the back either.  If it’s all about wins and losses when supporting or not supporting student athletes, then the NCAA isn’t amateur at all.  It simply hasn’t been for decades.

ANY kind of competition is and always should be about wins and losses. That's what competition is. You play to win the game, bottom line. Coaches get fired if they don't win enough. Whether it's high school, college or professional. Players want to win, they will tell you that. I realize we live in a society now where a lot people think everyone should get a medal, and as long as you try your best that's all that matters. Ask a college athlete sometime if that's satisfactory enough for them, or if they want to win, and if that's what's truly important to them. You can be an amateur and still want to win.

[wiscwarrior]

Honestly, I would love to see a true professional development league succeed and all eligible high school players have that option leaving cbb to those who truly value a scholarship for the opportunity it represents and, as Al said, use the school.

Allowing pay for NIL is ok as long as a level playing field can be accomplished. I guess this would create a less polished product at the college level, but I personally don't care. I get excited about MU vs. the competition at the collegiate level, not about how close the talent matches the pro level. In this circumstance the coaches would have to do more coaching and maybe earn all that money they make.   

[WarriorDad]

So first there's the notice of inquiry then the investigation. That could take a while depending on cooperation. After that is the notice of allegations and the school has 90 days to give a written response to that. Usually, they lawyer up for that (usually BSK or Ice Miller, they're the experts in the field. In fact, the dude who got fired for being overzealous on the Miami investigation is now with Ice Miller). Then the in-person hearings are scheduled and the parties are flown to Indy for that. The COI is mostly from individuals from outside of athletics: college presidents, attorneys, professors, general counsel. There' s usually an AD and a former coach too.

There's a new process that both Memphis and NC State are headed to, the independent accountable resolution process. All individuals from outside of athletics and the NCAA. There is no appeal. NC State got kicked there because of lack of cooperation, apparently, Gottfried's response was very adversarial.

How do you know all these processes?

[Billy Hoyle]

How do you know all these processes?

Experience.

One of my best friends got caught up in a major investigation, flown to Indy, visited at work, etc.

[Viper]

See, this is my problem...it's how long the process takes. To me it shouldn't. here's my problem with it...the school will ALWAYS drag it out as long as they can to their benefit. That pisses me off that they are allowed to kick the can down the road for that long. For example...when Kansas's notice got sent out originally it was before this last season started..now in the end it didn't matter, but to me, I'd like to see the punishment occur in that current season. Why?/ because KU this past year had a National Championship caliber team...so let's say they ended up winning it, and the following year is when their punishment comes down. Then they of course make the tourney but their team isn't quite as good as the previous years...so they get a post season ban, do you think they will really care at that point?? They just won a National Championship the prvious year and that's all they care about. Even if the NCAA strips them of that title, it's essentially meaningless.

For things like this 5 level 1 violations, the ONLY punishment that will really hurt and the only thing the fans, program really care about is post season bans. A year isn't good enough...I'd like to see MULTIPLE years of post season bans, on top of recruiting restrictions etc. make it really hurt, so the program takes many years to recover. I feel that way about any program that gets even 1 level one violation...the punishment has to REALLY hurt.

I go back-n-forth on an opinion of the ncaa (I don’t feel athletes should be paid), but I agree with you that the length of these investigations is ridiculous.
Kansas, AZ, ‘Ville, Creighton et al...lets go, drop the hammer.

[MU82]

Things look bad for Self and his Kansas hoopsters.

I expect major penalties against the Kansas A&M field hockey team any time now.

[WhiteTrash]

Things look bad for Self and his Kansas hoopsters.

I expect major penalties against the Kansas A&M field hockey team any time now.

Funny. But in  all seriousness it looks like the NCAA is actually looking to go to war on Kansas. A good friend and big booster of KU told me months ago that KU is guilty and Self is toast.

[WarriorDad]

I’m simply not a fan of morally bankrupt organizations built on the backs of student athletes who are treated like cattle.

One of my children had their education costs covered as a result of ncaa scholarship in a non revenue sport. There are other members here who have children that received the same.

Not treated like cattle and it was a tremendous opportunity to travel, work with a team, experience an aspect of life that most do not.  It was not 100% roses, and that is part of the learning experience you go through when you are not playing as much as you want or balancing school and athletics.  The payoff was the ability to organize, prioritize, simplify, and cope.  It paid off post graduate. 

My child’s experience is not unique.  I would say it is the norm for most student athletes.

[Uncle Rico]

One of my children had their education costs covered as a result of ncaa scholarship in a non revenue sport. There are other members here who have children that received the same.

Not treated like cattle and it was a tremendous opportunity to travel, work with a team, experience an aspect of life that most do not.  It was not 100% roses, and that is part of the learning experience you go through when you are not playing as much as you want or balancing school and athletics.  The payoff was the ability to organize, prioritize, simplify, and cope.  It paid off post graduate. 

My child’s experience is not unique.  I would say it is the norm for most student athletes.

Thanks, cheeks