Coaching styles

[NCMUFan]

The topic of coach, coaching style and coaching decisions keep coming up as a topic here at MUScoop.

We know that Buzz was never a player.
On Crean's Wiki it says he was a player for four years.  However, does not say at what level.  Could it have been grade or high school?
In any case, Crean was not a college player.
However, Wojo was a major collegiate basketball player with many hours of college game playing.
With Wojo being a past player and Crean and Buzz not, do you see this being a major point in coaching philosophy? 
The reason I bring this up, is the style Marquette played after Markus left with an injury was essentially the style we have become accustomed to this year with Markus.  However, the role Markus had was taken over by Koby and Sacar. 
I can't recall teams like that  for Crean or Buzz except maybe after D Wade left and Marquette only had Diener as an offensive threat.  Years we didn't make the NCAA tournament by the way.

[Elonsmusk]

I would say Wojo's offensive coaching style has been:

Premium on shooting.
Rely heavily on one superstar.
Hope the superstar (or next best player if superstar goes out) can carry you to victory.

We were lucky to win the game last night, due to the following fortunate circumstances:

Xavier is 8th in league in offense and 120th in the country.
Xavier is 10th in conference in FT shooting % and 300th in the country.
Koby.

We didn't run any great offensive sets during the last couple of minutes of regulation and first/second OT.  The "coaching" was give the ball to Koby, and HOPE he stayed En Fuego.  As I recall there were 4 possessions in a row where he did not pass the ball once, pounded it into the floor for 25 seconds, before hoisting up high degree of difficulty shots.  They went in last night.

[🏀]

"We haven't installed the offense yet."

[mu03eng]

We didn't run any great offensive sets during the last couple of minutes of regulation and first/second OT.  The "coaching" was give the ball to Koby, and HOPE he stayed En Fuego.  As I recall there were 4 possessions in a row where he did not pass the ball once, pounded it into the floor for 25 seconds, before hoisting up high degree of difficulty shots.  They went in last night.

Your hypothesis is that this was Wojo's intent?

[Shark]

The offense seems to be:
setting a lot of screens
moving on and off ball
hunting open looks or one on one matchups that are favorable
drive + kick


They are the 18th offense on Kenpom

[Pakuni]

I would say Wojo's offensive coaching style has been:

Premium on shooting.
Rely heavily on one superstar.
Hope the superstar (or next best player if superstar goes out) can carry you to victory.

Yeah, this isn't true.
Look the the usage stats prior to the past two seasons.

[MU82]

We were lucky to win the game last night, due to the following fortunate circumstances:

Xavier is 8th in league in offense and 120th in the country.
Xavier is 10th in conference in FT shooting % and 300th in the country.

Hmm.

One could say we were unlucky that a guy who hadn't been able to hit a 3 to save his life all season, Goodin, turned into Steph Curry last night. He scored 15 points on a shot that for weeks and weeks and weeks (and weeks) he had scored a grand total of ZERO on. Pretty unlucky to have that kind of 15-point swing go against us.

One also could say we were unlucky that one of the best players in the country, a guy who scored 14 points in about 14 seconds during the first half, got knocked out of the game and couldn't play the last 23 minutes of a tight game.

One also could say we were unlucky that a backup guard whom we really, really could have used last night was out with an injury.

One also could say we were unlucky that the refs looked at a replay and somehow came to the conclusion that Sacar reaching in was a flagrant foul.

As for X's free throw shooting, ... they were bad coming in, and they shot badly. It was entirely predictable, the opposite of lucky. Had X shot well from the line, that would have been unlucky for Marquette, too.

[Litehouse]

We struggle at creating easy shots.  Fortunately we're really good at making hard shots.

[Pakuni]

We struggle at creating easy shots.  Fortunately we're really good at making hard shots.

True.
This partially stems from the lack of a "true" point guard on Wojo's rosters over the years. It's telling that  just 20 games into his career, Symir already may be the best passing guard we've seen under Wojo (well, other than Magic Dawson).

[MU1980]

Hmm.

One could say we were unlucky that a guy who hadn't been able to hit a 3 to save his life all season, Goodin, turned into Steph Curry last night. He scored 15 points on a shot that for weeks and weeks and weeks (and weeks) he had scored a grand total of ZERO on. Pretty unlucky to have that kind of 15-point swing go against us.

One also could say we were unlucky that one of the best players in the country, a guy who scored 14 points in about 14 seconds during the first half, got knocked out of the game and couldn't play the last 23 minutes of a tight game.

One also could say we were unlucky that a backup guard whom we really, really could have used last night was out with an injury.

One also could say we were unlucky that the refs looked at a replay and somehow came to the conclusion that Sacar reaching in was a flagrant foul.

As for X's free throw shooting, ... they were bad coming in, and they shot badly. It was entirely predictable, the opposite of lucky. Had X shot well from the line, that would have been unlucky for Marquette, too.

Well said MU82. Posts like yours or most of Towers posts are the main reason I keep coming back to MUscoop.  It is refreshing to see mature posts by people who actually understand collegiate basketball and the many things that go with it in regards to recruiting, psychology, team unity, assistant coaches, team and individual ego's, etc. etc., etc.  There are so many things that go into coaching that so many of our posters, such as Elonsmusk, MUguru, MikeDeanesdark glasses, etc, have really no basic understanding of.  What amazes me is how people that post so often and seem to watch a lot of college basketball can really be so clueless about it.  I don't know how many times MUguru has made some silly post, then a more mature poster comes along with a great rebuttal to counteract his view point and yet he still doesn't get it.  MU82 or Tower are not homer's and will critique some of Wojo's or the players mistakes, but they do it with class and with a much better knowledge of the bigger picture. 

So thank you to the posters that actually get it, because most of us would no longer even visit this site if we didn't have some more knowledgeable and objective posters that are regulars on here. 

[Elonsmusk]

Hmm.

One could say we were unlucky that a guy who hadn't been able to hit a 3 to save his life all season, Goodin, turned into Steph Curry last night. He scored 15 points on a shot that for weeks and weeks and weeks (and weeks) he had scored a grand total of ZERO on. Pretty unlucky to have that kind of 15-point swing go against us.

One also could say we were unlucky that one of the best players in the country, a guy who scored 14 points in about 14 seconds during the first half, got knocked out of the game and couldn't play the last 23 minutes of a tight game.

One also could say we were unlucky that a backup guard whom we really, really could have used last night was out with an injury.

One also could say we were unlucky that the refs looked at a replay and somehow came to the conclusion that Sacar reaching in was a flagrant foul.

As for X's free throw shooting, ... they were bad coming in, and they shot badly. It was entirely predictable, the opposite of lucky. Had X shot well from the line, that would have been unlucky for Marquette, too.

Goodin had a progression to the mean game.  Unfortunate it happened against us.  Was that a function of bad defense?  He's a 29% 3pt shooter. For context Koby is 32% on the season.

X was 20% below their season FT shooting percentage - which means they missed 6 more FTs than their average.

MU shot 32 FTs to their 25...and yet some Scoopers were up in arms over the "home cooking."

Sacar's flagrant?  They made that up by fouling out Naji Marshall on a rebound that would have given X the ball too.

We were lucky as hell to come out of their with a victory.  If ever there was a game to lose Markus, it was this one, against an awful offensive team.  Losing Markus actually helped us become a better defensive team. 

Sometimes its better to be lucky than good.  Last night's win was generally a function of good luck.

[Elonsmusk]

Well said MU82. Posts like yours or most of Towers posts are the main reason I keep coming back to MUscoop.  It is refreshing to see mature posts by people who actually understand collegiate basketball and the many things that go with it in regards to recruiting, psychology, team unity, assistant coaches, team and individual ego's, etc. etc., etc.  There are so many things that go into coaching that so many of our posters, such as Elonsmusk, MUguru, MikeDeanesdark glasses, etc, have really no basic understanding of.  What amazes me is how people that post so often and seem to watch a lot of college basketball can really be so clueless about it.  I don't know how many times MUguru has made some silly post, then a more mature poster comes along with a great rebuttal to counteract his view point and yet he still doesn't get it.  MU82 or Tower are not homer's and will critique some of Wojo's or the players mistakes, but they do it with class and with a much better knowledge of the bigger picture. 

So thank you to the posters that actually get it, because most of us would no longer even visit this site if we didn't have some more knowledgeable and objective posters that are regulars on here.

Fixed.  If you actually had any knowledge about "collegiate" basketball, you'd realize the results under Wojo have been mediocre at best.  Sorry you don't like to be objective in acknowledging the reality.

[Pakuni]

Many fans here are understandably salty after a tough MU loss.
Elonmusk is salty after a hardfought MU win.

[BM1090]

Rowsey was a pretty damn good passer when he wanted to be.

[Elonsmusk]

Many fans here are understandably salty after a tough MU loss.
Elonmusk is salty after a hardfought MU win.

Nah Pak.  Not salty.

Was fun AF to watch the game.  Was perhaps one of the most improbable, against all odds wins I ever recall watching.

Not sure why pointing out the objectivity/reality of what we witnessed last night is so salty?

[Pakuni]

Not sure why pointing out the objectivity/reality of what we witnessed last night is so salty?

You've done a fine job of pointing out where MU caught some breaks last night while ignoring/dismissing the many factors they had to overcome to earn the win ... not the least of which was playing the final 22+ minutes without arguably the best player - and certainly best scorer - in the country. You somehow try to spin that into a positive for MU.

[Jay Bee]

Xavier is 8th in league in offense and 120th in the country.

No. You’re citing two different things. The company to 8th is 175th, not 120th.

[MU1980]

Fixed.  If you actually had any knowledge about "collegiate" basketball, you'd realize the results under Wojo have been mediocre at best.  Sorry you don't like to be objective in acknowledging the reality.

I apologize for putting your name in that post as i went back and read through some of your posts and you do seem to have more knowledge and objectivity than many of the posters.  I don't always agree with your opinion on some things, but respect what you have had to say for the most part.  As far as my basketball knowledge, I do not claim to or never will claim to be an expert, especially on the intricacies of the game, so that is why I do not post that often. I just get frustrated with posters who seem to know so much about coaching, but really have no clue about everything that is involved. The games and practice are in reality a small part of what a coach has to do.  I am very interested in the psychology of coaching and what goes in to recruiting, managing 18-22 year old egos, managing a coaching staff that I am sure all feel like they know what is best for the team, dealing with boosters, dealing with academics, dealing with parents, etc.  We are not involved in the recruiting process of these athletes, we are not at practice daily, we are not in individual meetings with the athletes, and on and on.  There is so much involved that we do not see. 

What I like about Wojo is that he has recruited for the most part, athletes that are good representatives of the University.  That has not always been the case.  This limits what recruits you can go after and in my opinion, makes it take longer to build a program.  He has had to make adjustments to his philosophy as he works to get his type of recruits in the program, such as bringing in Rowsey, who certainly helped our offense, but was offensive on defense.  I don't see Wojo having a Rowsey type player on the team in the future if he continues to be able to get the type of recruits he wants, but that is easier said than done.  Judging by recent recruiting, it appears that Wojo being one of the worst coaches ever in the opinion of many posters, has not deterred very high quality recruits from coming here.  I am more interested in what a highly recruited athlete thinks about Marquette basketball and its future, than someone like MUGuru.

So to make a short story long, I apologize Elonsmusk and look forward to your insight into Marquette basketball. 

[Elonsmusk]

I apologize for putting your name in that post as i went back and read through some of your posts and you do seem to have more knowledge and objectivity than many of the posters.  I don't always agree with your opinion on some things, but respect what you have had to say for the most part.  As far as my basketball knowledge, I do not claim to or never will claim to be an expert, especially on the intricacies of the game, so that is why I do not post that often. I just get frustrated with posters who seem to know so much about coaching, but really have no clue about everything that is involved. The games and practice are in reality a small part of what a coach has to do.  I am very interested in the psychology of coaching and what goes in to recruiting, managing 18-22 year old egos, managing a coaching staff that I am sure all feel like they know what is best for the team, dealing with boosters, dealing with academics, dealing with parents, etc.  We are not involved in the recruiting process of these athletes, we are not at practice daily, we are not in individual meetings with the athletes, and on and on.  There is so much involved that we do not see. 

What I like about Wojo is that he has recruited for the most part, athletes that are good representatives of the University.  That has not always been the case.  This limits what recruits you can go after and in my opinion, makes it take longer to build a program.  He has had to make adjustments to his philosophy as he works to get his type of recruits in the program, such as bringing in Rowsey, who certainly helped our offense, but was offensive on defense.  I don't see Wojo having a Rowsey type player on the team in the future if he continues to be able to get the type of recruits he wants, but that is easier said than done.  Judging by recent recruiting, it appears that Wojo being one of the worst coaches ever in the opinion of many posters, has not deterred very high quality recruits from coming here.  I am more interested in what a highly recruited athlete thinks about Marquette basketball and its future, than someone like MUGuru.

So to make a short story long, I apologize Elonsmusk and look forward to your insight into Marquette basketball.

Thank you.  Classy post.  To be fair, I was very critical early on in Wojo's tenure - Years 1 and 2 especially.  I can understand being categorized as a "No Jo."  I do feel Wojo has improved, yet that doesn't mean I feel he is a good in-game coach.

As you point out, he's recruited pretty well, our kids are good reps of the university - as is Wojo.  We certainly could do worse at the head coaching position, but we also have done better in 3 of our last 4 coaches.

The roster management you mention - I felt early on (Year 1), Wojo really was overmmatched in that department, and ultimately that has proven itself out to be true.  Losing the Hausers, was clear evidence of weak roster management capabilities.  We do not have all that many players in 5.5 years that have shown improvement, we've had just as many if not more who regressed and transferred out.

In my book, he's grades out as a "C."  That is up from an "F" each of his first two years.  We have the facilities, budget, tradition of being an "A-" caliber program.  I'd like to see this delta closed.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Funny everyone seems to forget how terrible of a coach Tan Tommy Crean was.  Can anyone remember year 6 for Tommy Naismith? Two recruiting cycles after the FF.

[war1980rior]

I apologize for putting your name in that post as i went back and read through some of your posts and you do seem to have more knowledge and objectivity than many of the posters.  I don't always agree with your opinion on some things, but respect what you have had to say for the most part.  As far as my basketball knowledge, I do not claim to or never will claim to be an expert, especially on the intricacies of the game, so that is why I do not post that often. I just get frustrated with posters who seem to know so much about coaching, but really have no clue about everything that is involved. The games and practice are in reality a small part of what a coach has to do.  I am very interested in the psychology of coaching and what goes in to recruiting, managing 18-22 year old egos, managing a coaching staff that I am sure all feel like they know what is best for the team, dealing with boosters, dealing with academics, dealing with parents, etc.  We are not involved in the recruiting process of these athletes, we are not at practice daily, we are not in individual meetings with the athletes, and on and on.  There is so much involved that we do not see. 

What I like about Wojo is that he has recruited for the most part, athletes that are good representatives of the University.  That has not always been the case.  This limits what recruits you can go after and in my opinion, makes it take longer to build a program.  He has had to make adjustments to his philosophy as he works to get his type of recruits in the program, such as bringing in Rowsey, who certainly helped our offense, but was offensive on defense.  I don't see Wojo having a Rowsey type player on the team in the future if he continues to be able to get the type of recruits he wants, but that is easier said than done.  Judging by recent recruiting, it appears that Wojo being one of the worst coaches ever in the opinion of many posters, has not deterred very high quality recruits from coming here.  I am more interested in what a highly recruited athlete thinks about Marquette basketball and its future, than someone like MUGuru.

So to make a short story long, I apologize Elonsmusk and look forward to your insight into Marquette basketball.

Spot on pair of posts.  You must have seen some good ball in your days at MU.     I feel exactly the same.  I love watching MU, win or lose, and yes, yell at the TV a lot.  Certainly no basketball wizard here, but just want to see our university well represented and improvement in the team. 

I would have loved to see Scoop in the days of MU losing at home to U of Detroit in '77, and needing a walk-on (Mark Lavin) to finish the game as we had only Butch Lee left at guard (Payne injured, Boylan and Rosenberger fouled out).  Even better would be the '78 tournament losing in the opening round when we lost a starter (Whitehead ejected) and the team fell apart.

That specific game came to mind last night when we lost Howard.  The team really came together enough to pull it out.  Exciting win, making it a great game for all!

[bilsu]

I seen at lot of amazing things happen in college basketball. They either make me happy or unhappy. Players either make plays or they do not make plays. The coaches never tell the players to not make plays, but they get the blame when the player fails.

[Loose Cannon]

I seen at lot of amazing things happen in college basketball. They either make me happy or unhappy. Players either make plays or they do not make plays. The coaches never tell the players to not make plays, but they get the blame when the player fails.

Speaking of amazing things, I can't believe last night we committed our Last TO (11) at the 9 minute mark in the  2nd half.  Amazing Stat for me, but maybe misread some numbers.

[bilsu]

Speaking of amazing things, I can't believe last night we committed our Last TO (11) at the 9 minute mark in the  2nd half.  Amazing Stat for me, but maybe misread some numbers.

Howard cannot dribble the ball off his foot, if he is not in the game.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Well said MU82. Posts like yours or most of Towers posts are the main reason I keep coming back to MUscoop.  It is refreshing to see mature posts by people who actually understand collegiate basketball and the many things that go with it in regards to recruiting, psychology, team unity, assistant coaches, team and individual ego's, etc. etc., etc.  There are so many things that go into coaching that so many of our posters, such as Elonsmusk, MUguru, MikeDeanesdark glasses, etc, have really no basic understanding of.  What amazes me is how people that post so often and seem to watch a lot of college basketball can really be so clueless about it.  I don't know how many times MUguru has made some silly post, then a more mature poster comes along with a great rebuttal to counteract his view point and yet he still doesn't get it.  MU82 or Tower are not homer's and will critique some of Wojo's or the players mistakes, but they do it with class and with a much better knowledge of the bigger picture. 

So thank you to the posters that actually get it, because most of us would no longer even visit this site if we didn't have some more knowledgeable and objective posters that are regulars on here.

Found Nads' burner acoount.