The Verdict Is In

[MU82]

There's a reason Wojo was welded to the Duke bench for almost two decades. Unfortunately, Marquette is learning why that was.

Guys are not assistants for 15 years and become HC. You always not this is not the '70's anymore, same holds true to your comparisons. Coaches are younger and younger. He was welded to the bench for a reason.

Just read an interesting article in The Athletic about Brian Dutcher, the architect of San Diego State's undefeated team.

He was an assistant for - wait for it! - 34 freakin' years before San Diego State finally gave him a chance.

2 years as a grad assistant at Illinois ... 2 years at South Dakota State ... 9 years at Michigan ... and a whopping 18 years "welded to the San Diego State bench."

So in addition to all the other examples I and others gave, here's more "proof" that if you've been a long-time assistant you can't possibly become a good head coach.

[Goose]

82

It looks like it did not take Dutcher the mandatory five years before grading out his program.

[MU82]

82

It looks like it did not take Dutcher the mandatory five years before grading out his program.

You're right about that, Goose!

He did a wonderful job proving that being a long-time assistant does not automatically mean a person isn't qualified to be a head coach. Izzo did OK, too, as did many others named earlier in this thread.

And as will Wojo, we all hope - albeit nowhere near as quickly as Dutcher, Izzo and some others that had been mentioned.

Would have been nice had Wojo been able to get there more quickly ... although it is worth noting that Dutcher has, so far, won exactly the same number of NCAA tournament games as Wojo. Maybe both will add some of those kinds of victories this coming March.

[lurch91]

82

It looks like it did not take Dutcher the mandatory five years before grading out his program.

I wonder how much it helped that Dutcher was already at San Diego before he took over as Head Coach.  I'm sure he had recruited many of the players as the Associate Head Coach, knew the internal politics of the University,  Athletic Department, etc.  That certainly had to be an advantage.

I'm not minimizing Dutcher's success, but so many think that every coaching change is the same.

[MU82]

I wonder how much it helped that Dutcher was already at San Diego before he took over as Head Coach.  I'm sure he had recruited many of the players as the Associate Head Coach, knew the internal politics of the University,  Athletic Department, etc.  That certainly had to be an advantage.

I'm not minimizing Dutcher's success, but so many think that every coaching change is the same.

Good point. Izzo and Few had similar advantages. Of course, so did Hank and Rick, and the results weren't all that swell.

So yes, every coaching change definitely is not the same.

[Eldon]

Just read an interesting article in The Athletic about Brian Dutcher, the architect of San Diego State's undefeated team.

He was an assistant for - wait for it! - 34 freakin' years before San Diego State finally gave him a chance.

2 years as a grad assistant at Illinois ... 2 years at South Dakota State ... 9 years at Michigan ... and a whopping 18 years "welded to the San Diego State bench."

So in addition to all the other examples I and others gave, here's more "proof" that if you've been a long-time assistant you can't possibly become a good head coach.

I'll have to remember this whenever someone says "why replace Wojo with Stan?!?" 

(If Stan were such a great coach, why isn't he a head coach somewhere)

[Cheeks]

82

It looks like it did not take Dutcher the mandatory five years before grading out his program.

Or maybe it is too early to judge and once all of Fischer's guys are gone he crashes and burns.

But yes, some guys hit it out of the park from the start.  Some guys never hit it.  Some guys take a few years...Rick Majerus

[keefe]

Just read an interesting article in The Athletic about Brian Dutcher, the architect of San Diego State's undefeated team.

He was an assistant for - wait for it! - 34 freakin' years before San Diego State finally gave him a chance.

2 years as a grad assistant at Illinois ... 2 years at South Dakota State ... 9 years at Michigan ... and a whopping 18 years "welded to the San Diego State bench."

So in addition to all the other examples I and others gave, here's more "proof" that if you've been a long-time assistant you can't possibly become a good head coach.

Mike

I think Jamie already pointed this out but let's see what Dutcher does with a team he built.

The real question is whether Dutcher is the real thing or another Brian Ellerbe. Ellerbe won the Big Ten crown in his first season as Fish's replacement. He promptly fell on his face after that.

There are indeed scorch marks on Dutcher's ass flesh. Deserved? We'll see. It's only been three seasons since Fish left.

[wadesworld]

Wasn't Hopkins "the real deal" and going to "get it done?" How long was he on Syracuse's bench for?

[Elonsmusk]

Wasn't Hopkins "the real deal" and going to "get it done?" How long was he on Syracuse's bench for?

Yes. He got impatient and bolted for Washington. Now in Year 3. Done a decent job. Took over from Romar inherited a team that finished around 160. Got them to 98 year 1. 48. Year 2. And now 50 at present.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

I spent the last 45 minutes catching up on the last 5 pages of this thread while watching the debate.

[MU82]

Mike

I think Jamie already pointed this out but let's see what Dutcher does with a team he built.

The real question is whether Dutcher is the real thing or another Brian Ellerbe. Ellerbe won the Big Ten crown in his first season as Fish's replacement. He promptly fell on his face after that.

There are indeed scorch marks on Dutcher's ass flesh. Deserved? We'll see. It's only been three seasons since Fish left.

True. We'll see about Dutcher. I covered his daddy's final years at Minnesota way back when.

Either way, as many posts here pointed out, it's not very rare for long-time assistants to become very good head coaches.

[keefe]

Yes. He got impatient and bolted for Washington. Now in Year 3. Done a decent job. Took over from Romar inherited a team that finished around 160. Got them to 98 year 1. 48. Year 2. And now 50 at present.

Tesla Man

People might not know but Hopkins is from Seattle. This was a natural fit for him and his family.

And he is doing a great job with the Huskies. He's made them competitive, recruiting well, and more importantly, reenergized the alumni.

I have friends who are boosters and they love the guy. That's any college programs most important constituency.

Nobody on Lake Washington regrets hiring Hopkins.

[Boston Warrior]

On Brian Dutcher.....

He will be fine, long term assistant to Fischer chief recruiter of fab 5, long term successful assistant... he has turned down head coaching jobs. Loyal, program oriented and his  family is very successful, grounded. He is and will continue to be a good head coach.

[wadesworld]

Year 3, dead last by themselves in the lowly PAC 12.

[keefe]

On Brian Dutcher.....

He will be fine, long term assistant to Fischer chief recruiter of fab 5, long term successful assistant... he has turned down head coaching jobs. Loyal, program oriented and his  family is very successful, grounded. He is and will continue to be a good head coach.

As a Michigan alum I know how important Dutcher was to Fish. Those two have decades of success together. I wish him nothing but continued accomplishment.

[Elonsmusk]

Tesla Man

People might not know but Hopkins is from Seattle. This was a natural fit for him and his family.

And he is doing a great job with the Huskies. He's made them competitive, recruiting well, and more importantly, reenergized the alumni.

I have friends who are boosters and they love the guy. That's any college programs most important constituency.

Nobody on Lake Washington regrets hiring Hopkins.

Didn't know he was from Seattle area. Will be interesting to see where the next few years go for UW and Hopkins. Sounds like he has things on good footing with important constituents.

Thanks for the scoop Keefe!

[PointWarrior]

2-10 in last 12 games.   Smell on lake Washington not so great...

Tesla Man

People might not know but Hopkins is from Seattle. This was a natural fit for him and his family.

And he is doing a great job with the Huskies. He's made them competitive, recruiting well, and more importantly, reenergized the alumni.

I have friends who are boosters and they love the guy. That's any college programs most important constituency.

Nobody on Lake Washington regrets hiring Hopkins.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is all anecdotal, but it seems like rebuilding coaches who take on one and dones in the first few years don't have a lot of team success with those one and dones. Wojo, Cuonzo at Cal and Mizzou, Alford at UCLA, Shaka at Texas, Johnny Jones at LSU, Marvin Menzies at UNLV, and now possibly Hopkins at UW. I haven't done a deep dive, I'm sure there are plenty of counter examples or other explanations but maybe there is some truth to the thought that recruiting one and dones early in the rebuilding process actually can set the rebuild back.

[The Sultan]

Yes. He got impatient and bolted for Washington. Now in Year 3. Done a decent job. Took over from Romar inherited a team that finished around 160. Got them to 98 year 1. 48. Year 2. And now 50 at present.

My impression is that he didn't get impatient as much as he got screwed.  I thought he was named coach in waiting with a plan to take over the program in a couple of years, only to have Boeheim decide he wanted to coach longer.  And as keefe said, UW was a great personal fit. 

We will see how good he is long run but he certainly has earned some additional time.

[The Sultan]

And the other question is what is Syracuse going to do now?  They don't seem likely at this point to make the NCAAs, they have dropped off the map since joining the ACC, and their head coach is 75 years old.  They will likely promote from within, but is that going to be a long-term solution?

[🏀]

And the other question is what is Syracuse going to do now?  They don't seem likely at this point to make the NCAAs, they have dropped off the map since joining the ACC, and their head coach is 75 years old.  They will likely promote from within, but is that going to be a long-term solution?

The shine on Syracuse is gone. I'm guessing a MU post-Al decline. Except the MU patriarch tried to continue success by stepping down at the right time.

Northern New York is awful 9 out of 12 months, the Carrier Dome is aging poorly and no coaches wives are putting out.

[Dr. Blackheart]

This is all anecdotal, but it seems like rebuilding coaches who take on one and dones in the first few years don't have a lot of team success with those one and dones. Wojo, Cuonzo at Cal and Mizzou, Alford at UCLA, Shaka at Texas, Johnny Jones at LSU, Marvin Menzies at UNLV, and now possibly Hopkins at UW. I haven't done a deep dive, I'm sure there are plenty of counter examples or other explanations but maybe there is some truth to the thought that recruiting one and dones early in the rebuilding process actually can set the rebuild back.

On the flip side, there is Will Wade, Bruce Pearl, Sean Miller...

[keefe]

2-10 in last 12 games.   Smell on lake Washington not so great...

[keefe]

2-10 in last 12 games.   Smell on lake Washington not so great...

Dave