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Marquette vs

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Author Topic: The Verdict Is In  (Read 36664 times)

keefe

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #100 on: January 28, 2020, 11:53:58 AM »
I thought when we hired him, it was said he turned down Dayton. Which really made me trust his judgement.

You mean the Dayton Flyers who are currently ranked #7 in all the land?

I have never understood the dislike for Dayton. Personally, I wish my beloved Warriors were ranked in the Top 10 of all college basketball. Hell, I wish we were ranked.


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cheebs09

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #101 on: January 28, 2020, 11:59:21 AM »
You mean the Dayton Flyers who are currently ranked #7 in all the land?

I have never understood the dislike for Dayton. Personally, I wish my beloved Warriors were ranked in the Top 10 of all college basketball. Hell, I wish we were ranked.

I found an article stating he could have gone to Dayton.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/steve-wojciechowski-is-off-to-an-unbelievable-start-at-marquette/

I actually don’t mind Dayton. Just their fans.

oldwarrior81

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #102 on: January 28, 2020, 12:23:32 PM »
conference records the past 5+ seasons (includes Wojo's year 1)
listed by total wins
NCAA success of current coaches:  Jay Wright 15 NCAA wins,  LaVall Jordan, Kevin Willard, Ed Cooley  1 NCAA win


80-17  Villanova, Jay Wright   15-3 in NCAA, 2 National Championships

11-14  Xavier, Travis Steele    0 NCAA appearances
47-25  Xavier, Chris Mack  5 NT wins

20-23  Butler, LaVall Jordan  1-1 in NCAA
34-20  Butler, Chris Holtmann  4-3 in NCAA

54-43  Seton Hall, Kevin Willard  1-4 in NCAA

52-46  Providence, Ed Cooley   1-4 in NCAA

47-51  Marquette, Steve Wojciechowski  0-2 in NCAA

47-51  Creighton, Greg McDermott  0-2 in NCAA

16-27  Georgetown, Patrick Ewing   0 NCAA appearances
24-30  Georgetown, John Thompson III  1-1 in NCAA

 2- 6  St. John's, Mike Anderson   first season
20-52  St. John's, Chris Mullin   0-1 in NCAA
10- 8  St. John's, Steve Lavin   0 NCAA appearances


17-62  DePaul, Dave Leitao   0 NCAA appearances
6-12  DePaul, Oliver Purnell   0  NCAA appearances


names in purple no longer at school.

MU82

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #103 on: January 28, 2020, 12:26:39 PM »
I believe the correct term for the bolded section is, "welded to the bench."

I believe your correct term is an incorrect description, and is not at all a strike against him. Just as it wasn't a strike against Izzo.

Personally, I wish my beloved Warriors were ranked in the Top 10 of all college basketball.

We were ranked in the top 10 just last season, Crash. I know that doesn't count, though. Because ... Wojo.

Again, we want the same thing. You were convinced from Day 1 that he was wrong for the job. I was and continue to be optimistic, but I do have less patience now. I think my bottom line as stated earlier in the thread is fair, but everybody is entitled to his or her own view, obviously.
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Silkk the Shaka

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #104 on: January 28, 2020, 12:32:45 PM »
conference records the past 5+ seasons (includes Wojo's year 1)
listed by total wins
NCAA success of current coaches:  Jay Wright 15 NCAA wins,  LaVall Jordan, Kevin Willard, Ed Cooley  1 NCAA win


80-17  Villanova, Jay Wright   15-3 in NCAA, 2 National Championships

11-14  Xavier, Travis Steele    0 NCAA appearances
47-25  Xavier, Chris Mack  5 NT wins

20-23  Butler, LaVall Jordan  1-1 in NCAA
34-20  Butler, Chris Holtmann  4-3 in NCAA

54-43  Seton Hall, Kevin Willard  1-4 in NCAA

52-46  Providence, Ed Cooley   1-4 in NCAA

47-51  Marquette, Steve Wojciechowski  0-2 in NCAA

47-51  Creighton, Greg McDermott  0-2 in NCAA

16-27  Georgetown, Patrick Ewing   0 NCAA appearances
24-30  Georgetown, John Thompson III  1-1 in NCAA

 2- 6  St. John's, Mike Anderson   first season
20-52  St. John's, Chris Mullin   0-1 in NCAA
10- 8  St. John's, Steve Lavin   0 NCAA appearances


17-62  DePaul, Dave Leitao   0 NCAA appearances
6-12  DePaul, Oliver Purnell   0  NCAA appearances


names in purple no longer at school.

So we've been a bottom 5 BEast team without an NCAA win. Need to get one tourney this year minimum, and need to finish top 4. Then need to reset with the new class next year and take another step up (top 3 + at least 1 NCAA win most years).

#UnleashSean

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #105 on: January 28, 2020, 12:46:08 PM »
conference records the past 5+ seasons (includes Wojo's year 1)
listed by total wins
NCAA success of current coaches:  Jay Wright 15 NCAA wins,  LaVall Jordan, Kevin Willard, Ed Cooley  1 NCAA win


80-17  Villanova, Jay Wright   15-3 in NCAA, 2 National Championships

11-14  Xavier, Travis Steele    0 NCAA appearances
47-25  Xavier, Chris Mack  5 NT wins

20-23  Butler, LaVall Jordan  1-1 in NCAA
34-20  Butler, Chris Holtmann  4-3 in NCAA

54-43  Seton Hall, Kevin Willard  1-4 in NCAA

52-46  Providence, Ed Cooley   1-4 in NCAA

47-51  Marquette, Steve Wojciechowski  0-2 in NCAA

47-51  Creighton, Greg McDermott  0-2 in NCAA

16-27  Georgetown, Patrick Ewing   0 NCAA appearances
24-30  Georgetown, John Thompson III  1-1 in NCAA

 2- 6  St. John's, Mike Anderson   first season
20-52  St. John's, Chris Mullin   0-1 in NCAA
10- 8  St. John's, Steve Lavin   0 NCAA appearances


17-62  DePaul, Dave Leitao   0 NCAA appearances
6-12  DePaul, Oliver Purnell   0  NCAA appearances


names in purple no longer at school.

Honestly thank god for Nova. Without them this conference would have been looked at as a joke for the past 6 years.

Goose

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #106 on: January 28, 2020, 12:49:26 PM »
keefe

He was an assistant at Duke for fifteen years for a reason. Possibly that reason is that he was quite content staying at Duke. Most guys try and get HC as quickly as possible and he did not appear to be in a hurry. I know,  I know, I know he was just waiting for the right gig.

Actually, he got the right gig. Big paycheck, no pressure to win in March and a great boss.

Elonsmusk

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #107 on: January 28, 2020, 12:49:42 PM »
I found an article stating he could have gone to Dayton.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/steve-wojciechowski-is-off-to-an-unbelievable-start-at-marquette/

I actually don’t mind Dayton. Just their fans.

Did I read floor slapping cartoon character?  Say whaaat?

If only the “unbelievable” start and 4th tanked recruiting class materialized. Darn.

JakeBarnes

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #108 on: January 28, 2020, 01:08:11 PM »
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


Shooter McGavin

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #109 on: January 28, 2020, 01:15:34 PM »
Quote
Agreed, tower.

Nevertheless, I do think it is fair to expect a postseason win -- or three, or more -- in 6 years as a head coach at Marquette. Each of his four predecessors did so, and in less time.

Bottom Line for me:

++ Get into the tourney, get to the Sweet 16, and come back with that fine recruiting class (one that has a realistic chance to get even better), and I will be back in full-on Projo mode.

++ Get into the tourney and win one NCAA game, and I will remain in leaning Projo mode.

++ Get into the tourney but again fail to advance, and I'll be in Wojo's Gotta ShoMo mode.

++ Fail to reach the tourney, and I'll be leaning Nojo for the first time.

Yes, it takes some good fortune to win in March ... but to NEVER win in March suggests something more than simply bad luck.

Frankly, I can't name a single coach I'd consider "good" who failed to win an NCAA tournament game in his first half-dozen years at a major program.

Although I have tried numerous times, could not have said it better.  This is exactly where I’m at.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 01:26:21 PM by rocky_warrior »

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #110 on: January 28, 2020, 01:52:20 PM »
wades

He is a .500 coach in the BE, that is a fact. Sub .500 if you count his first season.

.500 in the BE is good. Not great but good. I believe good often turns into great given time and development.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #111 on: January 28, 2020, 01:57:11 PM »
.500 in the BE is good. Not great but good. I believe good often turns into great given time and development.

It's been six years.  How long should it reasonably take?  How many coaches improve considerably after six years at a P6 type school? 
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BM1090

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #112 on: January 28, 2020, 02:12:14 PM »
It's been six years.  How long should it reasonably take?  How many coaches improve considerably after six years at a P6 type school?

I think he's improved pretty considerably from years 1-2 through today. I think it's reasonable to assume he will continue to improve.

As to your second question I don't have time to research it, but Leonard Hamilton comes to mind. He didn't make the NCAA tournament in his first 6 years at Miami or FSU and his teams became pretty consistently in the tournament after that and have continued to improve/win some games in the tournament.

McDermott is probably my best comparison for Wojo. After this season he'll have made the NCAA tournament 6/10 times at Creighton and is 3-6 in the tournament. His teams have consistently won 20+ games and have more or less been around .500 in the BE.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 02:15:09 PM by BM1090 »

tower912

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #113 on: January 28, 2020, 02:13:28 PM »
Kevin Willard
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #114 on: January 28, 2020, 02:14:34 PM »
It's been six years.  How long should it reasonably take?  How many coaches improve considerably after six years at a P6 type school?

In my experience, almost all improve. Question is how much. As for how long should it take? He's already come a long way. His first recruiting cycle (year 1-3) was bad. His second (years 4-6) looks like it will be good. Third recruiting cycle is off to a great start on paper, we'll see if it translates into on the court success.
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Its DJOver

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #115 on: January 28, 2020, 02:14:43 PM »
It's been six years.  How long should it reasonably take?  How many coaches improve considerably after six years at a P6 type school?

Kevin Willard Conference record in his first 5 seasons; 30-60.  Kevin Willard Conference record his next 4.5 seasons; 48-31 (and counting).  I'm sure there are other examples, the same way I'm sure there are examples of coaches never "figuring it out".  Hindsight is always 20/20.

Edit; Tower beat me.

I'll add that Scott Drew made the tourney in 2 out of his first 8 seasons at Baylor (although technically 2 of 7 as they were ineligible in 04), anyone know where Baylor is ranked?

Rick Barnes went 0-3 in the tourney in 6 years at Providence, and then took another 3 years at Clemson before he won a game, so 8 years at a high major before his first tourney win.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 02:38:06 PM by Its DJOver »

wadesworld

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #116 on: January 28, 2020, 02:16:44 PM »
conference records the past 5+ seasons (includes Wojo's year 1)
listed by total wins
NCAA success of current coaches:  Jay Wright 15 NCAA wins,  LaVall Jordan, Kevin Willard, Ed Cooley  1 NCAA win


80-17  Villanova, Jay Wright   15-3 in NCAA, 2 National Championships

11-14  Xavier, Travis Steele    0 NCAA appearances
47-25  Xavier, Chris Mack  5 NT wins

20-23  Butler, LaVall Jordan  1-1 in NCAA
34-20  Butler, Chris Holtmann  4-3 in NCAA

54-43  Seton Hall, Kevin Willard  1-4 in NCAA

52-46  Providence, Ed Cooley   1-4 in NCAA

47-51  Marquette, Steve Wojciechowski  0-2 in NCAA

47-51  Creighton, Greg McDermott  0-2 in NCAA

16-27  Georgetown, Patrick Ewing   0 NCAA appearances
24-30  Georgetown, John Thompson III  1-1 in NCAA

 2- 6  St. John's, Mike Anderson   first season
20-52  St. John's, Chris Mullin   0-1 in NCAA
10- 8  St. John's, Steve Lavin   0 NCAA appearances


17-62  DePaul, Dave Leitao   0 NCAA appearances
6-12  DePaul, Oliver Purnell   0  NCAA appearances


names in purple no longer at school.

So what this shows me is that, of current Big East basketball coaches, every coach in the conference that isn't named Jay Wright has the exact same "hole" Wojo has.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #117 on: January 28, 2020, 02:18:28 PM »


McDermott is probably my best comparison for Wojo. After this season he'll have made the NCAA tournament 6/10 times at Creighton and is 3-6 in the tournament. His teams have consistently won 20+ games and have more or less been around .500 in the BE.

Show of hands: which Scoopers will be happy if Marquette can reach the Creighton level?

tower912

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #118 on: January 28, 2020, 02:24:55 PM »
Already there.   Similar to any Big East program not named Villanova over the last 5 years.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 02:31:26 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

BM1090

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #119 on: January 28, 2020, 02:28:12 PM »
Show of hands: which Scoopers will be happy if Marquette can reach the Creighton level?

I think we're already there minus a tournament win which will hopefully come in 2 months.

And it's Wojo's 6th year as a head coach vs. year 26 for McDermott (20 at the D1 level).

To answer your question, I would not be happy. I expect more and think we'll get it if we're patient.

Goose

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #120 on: January 28, 2020, 02:30:04 PM »
Lenny

Sadly, we probably are on par with Creighton.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #121 on: January 28, 2020, 02:30:34 PM »
It's been six years.  How long should it reasonably take?  How many coaches improve considerably after six years at a P6 type school?

The ones who get top ten recruiting classes.

Last year, this year, and next year, should give people some idea of the kind of players Wojo is graduating to.

He has been gradually compiling rosters that are longer and more athletic.

Next years class checks all the boxes.

If Marquette lands Mane they will have five physical guards that all are about 6' 4''.  That is a sharp departure from years past.

With the limitations of his previous rosters Wojo still managed to have some success. Those limitations will be gone next year and it will be interesting to see the new look team in action

willie warrior

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #122 on: January 28, 2020, 03:05:11 PM »
.500 in the BE is good. Not great but good. I believe good often turns into great given time and development.
No it is not good. It is mediocre. Yuge didderence
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Goose

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #123 on: January 28, 2020, 03:16:19 PM »
BM1090

Your post made me sad. We have become a poor man's Creighton.

Pakuni

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Re: The Verdict Is In
« Reply #124 on: January 28, 2020, 03:21:47 PM »
Lenny

Sadly, we probably are on par with Creighton.

Thought we were becoming St. Louis ....