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Author Topic: Baldwin vs Howard  (Read 15410 times)

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2020, 10:42:21 AM »
Facepalm.  I've heard The Onion is hiring writers.  You should consider applying.

Please tweet your solution to MUBB.  I look forward to watching Wojo get technicals every game going into halftime, and making the other team's best player a "marked man."  Like, the best player on the opposition isn't already at the top of the scouting report.

Marked for a hard foul.

Boy you're clueless.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2020, 10:49:48 AM »
Am I the only one that thinks Howard was barely touched (if at all) on his injury? I thought he just slid into the chair and hit his head. If someone has a video of the replay, I’d love to see. Unless I see otherwise, it seems like crazy talk to think Wojo should have done anything on that play.

Have you ever taken the tip of an elbow to the top of your head from a descending player?? One the size of Baddley?? Who in my opinion had malicious intent.

If not, you don't know what you're talking about. Markus was hurt before he ever hit the floor. I've had it happen and it is brutal. I have a scar to prove it.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2020, 10:54:27 AM »
I DVR'd the game.   I have watched the play multiple times.   It looks to me like Baddley's elbow hits Markus and Markus's head recoils immediately.  (Feels like the Zapruder film)

I didn't need to watch it multiple times. I've had it happen to me and it isn't pleasant. People think Markus got hurt after he hit the ground, which I don't believe is the case. The way he crumpled indicates to me that the elbow caused most of the damage.

hairy worthen

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2020, 10:54:55 AM »
Am I the only one that thinks Howard was barely touched (if at all) on his injury? I thought he just slid into the chair and hit his head. If someone has a video of the replay, I’d love to see. Unless I see otherwise, it seems like crazy talk to think Wojo should have done anything on that play.
No I didn't think he got hit at least not significantly. In real time I thought he got hammered but when they showed it in slow motion from a different angle it didn't t look like he even made contact. You cant see it by seeing the angle from the back. He hit his head on the chair though. The thing is if it had been say Bailey doing the same thing and they called a flagrant or even a foul there would be an uproar on this board

MikeDeanesDarkGlasses

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2020, 10:55:26 AM »
Facepalm.  I've heard The Onion is hiring writers.  You should consider applying.

Please tweet your solution to MUBB.  I look forward to watching Wojo get technicals every game going into halftime, and making the other team's best player a "marked man."  Like, the best player on the opposition isn't already at the top of the scouting report.

+1000

tower912

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2020, 11:08:22 AM »
So, I tried an experiment.   My wife is a big basketball fan.   Hoosier fan, but I love her anyway.   My 13 year old son has been playing basketball since he was 5.   I pulled up the DVR of the sequence of plays leading to the play in question.    I told them that I was going to play this little bit and I wanted their observations.   I told them I was not going to preface it in any way, just tell me what you see. 

When Baldwin initially stole the ball, wife: 'that's a foul"!    Son, "  he mugged him"!
When Markus got clocked, Wife "did they call a flagrant?"    Son, jumping out of his chair and pointing at the screen, " He totally elbowed him in the head!"
 
Sometimes, people see what they want to see.


Markus 6-14 from the field prior, 2-13 from the field after.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

hairy worthen

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2020, 11:08:46 AM »
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Marquette has obviously won games featuring Markus. It's harsh, but it's reality. This was never going to be "The Year". Giving the team the opportunity to win games while using Markus as a recruiting tool at the same time is not a bad strategy IMHO.
But you said they were. "Wojo is focused on the long game and that undoubtedly will affect results in the short term."

hairy worthen

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2020, 11:13:44 AM »
So, I tried an experiment.   My wife is a big basketball fan.   Hoosier fan, but I love her anyway.   My 13 year old son has been playing basketball since he was 5.   I pulled up the DVR of the sequence of plays leading to the play in question.    I told them that I was going to play this little bit and I wanted their observations.   I told them I was not going to preface it in any way, just tell me what you see. 

When Baldwin initially stole the ball, wife: 'that's a foul"!    Son, "  he mugged him"!
When Markus got clocked, Wife "did they call a flagrant?"    Son, jumping out of his chair and pointing at the screen, " He totally elbowed him in the head!"
 
Sometimes, people see what they want to see.


Markus 6-14 from the field prior, 2-13 from the field after.
Right people see what they want to see. In real time it looked like a bad foul. Can you honestly say you saw his elbow hit his head hard, not a recoil did you actually see it his head. Look at the replay they gave from a different angle. We are marquette fans I wanted it to be a flagrant it simply wasn't.

tower912

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2020, 11:16:50 AM »
 I saw the Butler player's arm hit Markus in the head.  I saw Markus react instantaneously like he had taken a blow to the head.     I cannot make it any clearer than that.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2020, 11:17:08 AM »
Right people see what they want to see. In real time it looked like a bad foul. Can you honestly say you saw his elbow hit his head hard, not a recoil did you actually see it his head. Look at the replay they gave from a different angle. We are marquette fans I wanted it to be a flagrant it simply wasn't.

You're simply wrong.

hairy worthen

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2020, 11:20:44 AM »
You're simply wrong.
Good arguement just tell someone they are wrong and it's all good. Classic. I maybe wrong on getting hit on the head buts it not definitive, I am not wrong about being a flagrant or howard hitting his head on the chair.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2020, 11:28:53 AM »
So, I tried an experiment.   My wife is a big basketball fan.   Hoosier fan, but I love her anyway.   My 13 year old son has been playing basketball since he was 5.   I pulled up the DVR of the sequence of plays leading to the play in question.    I told them that I was going to play this little bit and I wanted their observations.   I told them I was not going to preface it in any way, just tell me what you see. 

When Baldwin initially stole the ball, wife: 'that's a foul"!    Son, "  he mugged him"!
When Markus got clocked, Wife "did they call a flagrant?"    Son, jumping out of his chair and pointing at the screen, " He totally elbowed him in the head!"
 
Sometimes, people see what they want to see.


Markus 6-14 from the field prior, 2-13 from the field after.

Marquette has a professional training staff on the bench and they travel with a team doctor.  Are you suggesting they are incompetent? There was four timeouts in the last 2:56 of regulation to further evaluate Markus.

Baldwin had two points at halftime, and 29 points after. Did Jordan knock sense into him at  halftime?

Here is my take (and I agree concussions are tricky so time will tell in the ensuing days): Jordan made halftime adjustments to double and triple team Markus out of high picks and to body him on drives...just like he adjusted to have Baldwin iso time after time. Markus has an ORating of 88.6 in Pomeroy A games as great coaches adjust. There was a reason why other MU players shot so well last night...because they were left wide open.

The staff has to do much better., including concussion protocol if true. However, in BE play and excluding the Xavier game, MU has been outscored in the first ten minutes of the 2nd half by 22% out of the locker room. In game adjustments have and continue to be a major problem for this staff as they admitted last night post game.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2020, 11:30:39 AM »
I didn't need to watch it multiple times. I've had it happen to me and it isn't pleasant. People think Markus got hurt after he hit the ground, which I don't believe is the case. The way he crumpled indicates to me that the elbow caused most of the damage.

Question:  Why would Wojo keep playing Howard if this was SO serious, debilitating and concussive?

Btw - I suspect you catch a lot of elbows while playing hoops. You’re THAT guy.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2020, 11:32:14 AM »
But you said they were. "Wojo is focused on the long game and that undoubtedly will affect results in the short term."

Yep, leaning on Markus will get wins and losses. Not leaning on Markus will get wins and losses. I would say it's a coin flip as to which way is ultimately better this year.

I said it will affect results, not how they will be affected. Markus will win and already has won some games for Marquette this season. Markus may well have lost the Butler game, and may well lose a few more, but that doesn't mean peak Markus isn't the best approach going forward. It's just another way to win or lose.

Peak Markus almost certainly appeals to recruits which is the deciding factor in my book.

tower912

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2020, 11:36:16 AM »
It is possible to be affected without being concussed.  Markus had 5 second half points in 4 minutes and 16 seconds, so up to that point, the second half adjustments had not affected him.  2-13 after.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2020, 11:46:29 AM »
Question:  Why would Wojo keep playing Howard if this was SO serious, debilitating and concussive?

Btw - I suspect you catch a lot of elbows while playing hoops. You’re THAT guy.

Some players are very competitive and will do anything to stay in the game. Markus seems like one of those guys. Reminds me of Favre a little.

Obviously you talk basketball and have played very little or you would know that everybody takes elbows in basketball. The term " taking a bow" comes from how common taking an elbow is. Try it sometime.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2020, 11:50:19 AM »
It is possible to be affected without being concussed.  Markus had 5 second half points in 4 minutes and 16 seconds, so up to that point, the second half adjustments had not affected him.  2-13 after.

At this point you are approaching grassy knoll territory. Until the hard foul at 15:46, Markus had one turnover and missed a three pointer (and took the technical free throws). Two theories as to what happened after half time to Markus: Jordan adjusted or Markus was concussed to the point he was debilitated.

At this point, we know the first is true...and we have a statistical comet trail that other teams out adjust MU at halftime....and that the A teams scheme successfully against Markus. I love Lavin...but he wasn’t a great game changer...but there is a reason he is calling this out.

I await the concussion news.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 11:51:53 AM by Dr. Blackheart »

hairy worthen

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2020, 11:56:11 AM »
Some players are very competitive and will do anything to stay in the game. Markus seems like one of those guys. Reminds me of Favre a little.

Obviously you talk basketball and have played very little or you would know that everybody takes elbows in basketball. The term " taking a bow" comes from how common taking an elbow is. Try it sometime.
Again like I said in another thread if the staff knew he was concussed and they put him out there because Howard convinced them to let him play, that's bad bad bad and shows no concern for the individual. I don't think this happened and its speculation anyway. More likely he was fine.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2020, 11:59:49 AM »
Some players are very competitive and will do anything to stay in the game. Markus seems like one of those guys. Reminds me of Favre a little.

Obviously you talk basketball and have played very little or you would know that everybody takes elbows in basketball. The term " taking a bow" comes from how common taking an elbow is. Try it sometime.

Reminder.  The Onion is hiring.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2020, 12:03:20 PM »
At this point you are approaching grassy knoll territory. Until the hard foul at 15:46, Markus had one turnover and missed a three pointer (and took the technical free throws). Two theories as to what happened after half time to Markus: Jordan adjusted or Markus was concussed to the point he was debilitated.

At this point, we know the first is true...and we have a statistical comet trail that other teams out adjust MU at halftime....and that the A teams scheme successfully against Markus. I love Lavin...but he wasn’t a great game changer...but there is a reason he is calling this out.

I await the concussion news.

I wonder how smart he would be talking if Baldwin had been hammered into the floor and they had gone on to lose the game with Baldwin being totally ineffective.

BTW it isn't that typical for Markus to be shut down in the second half of games.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2020, 12:12:41 PM »
Reminder.  The Onion is hiring.

Am I missing something??

Oh, I get it......You thought I meant taking a bow like when you curtsy in your drama club.

It's a totally different thing in basketball.

It's what happened to Markus in the Butler game.

Eldon

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #96 on: January 25, 2020, 12:19:10 PM »
WhoaJoe,

Serious question. What if multiple top recruits want/were promised the green light?

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #97 on: January 25, 2020, 12:34:39 PM »
I wonder how smart he would be talking if Baldwin had been hammered into the floor and they had gone on to lose the game with Baldwin being totally ineffective.

BTW it isn't that typical for Markus to be shut down in the second half of games.

Welcome to the Big East.  Jordan protected his player by getting a technical at halftime.  Against the seven Level 1 opponents this year, Markus has an Orating of 88.6, yesterday it was 90. Sounds like a pattern. That's Freshman Magic Dawsonesque.

Baldwin had two points at halftime yesterday and 29 after. To me: Occam's Razor and adjustments were made

Or Wojo's staff, including training and medical, is incompetent. To you, even though Markus had a bad turnover and missed a trey up until the non-whistled contact out of half, paid professionals didn't notice any concussion symptoms for the next hour and a half.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #98 on: January 25, 2020, 12:37:44 PM »
Am I missing something??

Oh, I get it......You thought I meant taking a bow like when you curtsy in your drama club.

It's a totally different thing in basketball.

It's what happened to Markus in the Butler game.
"The desire to be right all the time, push buttons, get the last word in, etc.  Just not good... UGH. Embarrassing." --Jams
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WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Baldwin vs Howard
« Reply #99 on: January 25, 2020, 12:38:40 PM »
WhoaJoe,

Serious question. What if multiple top recruits want/were promised the green light?

They still have to demonstrate proficiency once they arrive, just like Markus did.

Hopefully Marquette has an offense that averages between 80-90 pts a game. That leaves room for several high scoring players.

Since Markus has been playing at Marquette, some people have forgotten that a twenty point game is pretty damn good. I imagine next year will bring many different SOTG winners who scored in the high teens to low twenties.

Try not to imagine this years team. Imagine how next years team will operate.