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Author Topic: Updated trajectory ratings since MU joined new Big East  (Read 2802 times)

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Updated trajectory ratings since MU joined new Big East
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2020, 09:44:56 AM »
Couldn’t you have bought a single $125 seat to keep those points alive incase you want to purchase in the future?

Yes, I could have.  Decided against it.   Even if MU won the next 5 National Championships, my desire to witness 20+ games a year has disappeared.  3-4-5 games a year is plenty.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Updated trajectory ratings since MU joined new Big East
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2020, 09:50:00 AM »
You can't say every game they looked fresh in the wins though. They certainly didn't against Utah St, Murray St or Davidson. Add those to Washington, Mizzou, UNC, Syracuse (2013) and Florida as tired and unprepared.

They looked fresh and ready against Miami, Xavier, BYU, and Syracuse (2011)

Don't remember the Butler game very well as I was hammered so no opinion. And I know you'll respond with location of Murray St or Dom coming back from injury. But then why disqualify location of South Carolina game and Lazar stepping on the line is a mental error that had nothing to do with "the return"

Galway,

I didn’t say every game or always (Chico’s word). It was a general statement and I think an accurate one. Here are my recollections:

As a favorite: Beat Utah State and Davidson, each by 1. Utah St. was close all the way, we let them dictate tempo. Buzz’s first tournament game, going against a Hall of Famer. Not artistic, but we outlasted them. Against Davidson, our plan and our energy was fine but we shot it horribly. Epic comeback, out of a timeout we get a lay up to win the game. The Murray St team we beat was outstanding, the best in their history. 31-1, #6 seed, and we were playing them in their own back yard. We were a very small favorite (-2.5). We controlled the game and beat them handily by 9. We were 6 point favorites vs BYU. A rout from the start, we won by 20.

Toss ups: the Washington game was one of runs - both teams “blew” double digit leads and the game was nip and tuck down the stretch. We lost by a bucket. Butler was a rematch of the championship game of the Rainbow Classic where they beat us by 1. We won the rematch (the one that really mattered) by 2. Two really good teams, two really good coaches (Buzz and Brad Stevens), two great games.

As an underdog: UNC and Syracuse were ugly. We were totally outmanned vs Carolina, and the Syracuse zone that we had shredded in Milwaukee a few weeks earlier was in total sync. They routed the tourney’s #1 seed (Indiana) and then they routed us. Florida had Beal and were just better than us. We shot poorly, lost by 10. The Missouri game was a great game throughout, we came up short when Lazar had a brain cramp at the end. We also had great success as an underdog. Buzz sicced Jimmy Butler on Xavier’s high scoring point guard and we cruised. DJO stuck the dagger in 3 seeded Syracuse and we beat them as an 11 seed. And we routed #2 seed Miami.

Nit pick where you will, I think that’s a really solid resume’ in March.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 09:54:23 AM by Lennys Tap »

Galway Eagle

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Re: Updated trajectory ratings since MU joined new Big East
« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2020, 10:04:42 AM »
Galway,

I didn’t say every game or always (Chico’s word). It was a general statement and I think an accurate one. Here are my recollections:

As a favorite: Beat Utah State and Davidson, each by 1. Utah St. was close all the way, we let them dictate tempo. Buzz’s first tournament game, going against a Hall of Famer. Not artistic, but we outlasted them. Against Davidson, our plan and our energy was fine but we shot it horribly. Epic comeback, out of a timeout we get a lay up to win the game. The Murray St team we beat was outstanding, the best in their history. 31-1, #6 seed, and we were playing them in their own back yard. We were a very small favorite (-2.5). We controlled the game and beat them handily by 9. We were 6 point favorites vs BYU. A rout from the start, we won by 20.

Toss ups: the Washington game was one of runs - both teams “blew” double digit leads and the game was nip and tuck down the stretch. We lost by a bucket. Butler was a rematch of the championship game of the Rainbow Classic where they beat us by 1. We won the rematch (the one that really mattered) by 2. Two really good teams, two really good coaches (Buzz and Brad Stevens), two great games.

As an underdog: UNC and Syracuse were ugly. We were totally outmanned vs Carolina, and the Syracuse zone that we had shredded in Milwaukee a few weeks earlier was in total sync. They routed the tourney’s #1 seed (Indiana) and then they routed us. Florida had Beal and were just better than us. We shot poorly, lost by 10. The Missouri game was a great game throughout, we came up short when Lazar had a brain cramp at the end. We also had great success as an underdog. Buzz sicced Jimmy Butler on Xavier’s high scoring point guard and we cruised. DJO stuck the dagger in 3 seeded Syracuse and we beat them as an 11 seed. And we routed #2 seed Miami.

Nit pick where you will, I think that’s a really solid resume’ in March.

Ok so we're giving buzz a pass for a rough first tournament game one which we were by far the better team with four HoF players and Murray st for it being in their backyard (that game was closer than you give it credit for we pulled away on FTs quick google search says 11ties and 8 lead changes is not controlling)  I think that's fair. However then you should give Wojo a pass for a first tournament game with significantly less talent, against a team also playing in their backyard.

Shot it horribly as the Davidson excuse could be said about the second half of the South Carolina game as well. And Washington never lead by more than 5 we lead by 16. Shooting it terribly And blowing a lead relates to the statement about what a team looks like (focused and energized vs tired).

Look I'm not saying give Wojo a pass, I'm only saying that I think it's disingenuous to say Buzz's teams were always locked in when we struggled mightily against many teams seeded significantly lower than us. I do agree about Florida being a very poor matchup for us so I will take that off the games we didn't look prepped for.
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tower912

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Re: Updated trajectory ratings since MU joined new Big East
« Reply #78 on: January 21, 2020, 10:13:07 AM »
Buzz won 8 tourney games.    Wojo hasn't.    Yes, Buzz's teams lost some games that, on paper, they should have won.    Yes, Buzz's teams lost badly at home, got rolled, the works.     That is the nature of college basketball.    But Wojo hasn't built up the S-16, S-16, E-8 cache that Buzz had.    The fact that Wojo will more than likely finish this season having won 105-110 games in years 2-6 would be enough if there had been a NCAA tourney win or two sprinkled in.   It is enough to keep his seat from warming up, no matter how much wailing and gnashing of teeth goes on.     But until he wins a couple tourney games, or gets a team to far out perform its perceived potential, there are going to be those who are going to pound their fists.
 

Big opportunity this year.    With what left, and the string of injuries, if MU has a record similar to last year and actually wins a tourney game, a whole lot of people are either going to have to be quiet, change their opinion, or start looking for other things to complain about.   
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JakeBarnes

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Re: Updated trajectory ratings since MU joined new Big East
« Reply #79 on: January 21, 2020, 10:54:39 AM »
Buzz won 8 tourney games.    Wojo hasn't.    Yes, Buzz's teams lost some games that, on paper, they should have won.    Yes, Buzz's teams lost badly at home, got rolled, the works.     That is the nature of college basketball.    But Wojo hasn't built up the S-16, S-16, E-8 cache that Buzz had.    The fact that Wojo will more than likely finish this season having won 105-110 games in years 2-6 would be enough if there had been a NCAA tourney win or two sprinkled in.   It is enough to keep his seat from warming up, no matter how much wailing and gnashing of teeth goes on.     But until he wins a couple tourney games, or gets a team to far out perform its perceived potential, there are going to be those who are going to pound their fists.
 

Big opportunity this year.    With what left, and the string of injuries, if MU has a record similar to last year and actually wins a tourney game, a whole lot of people are either going to have to be quiet, change their opinion, or start looking for other things to complain about.

Lots of people on Scoop complain about wins. I think we know where they will go with their opinions ("I can't believe we only won teh s16 game by 5")
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MU82

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Re: Updated trajectory ratings since MU joined new Big East
« Reply #80 on: January 21, 2020, 10:59:49 AM »
Buzz won 8 tourney games.    Wojo hasn't.    Yes, Buzz's teams lost some games that, on paper, they should have won.    Yes, Buzz's teams lost badly at home, got rolled, the works.     That is the nature of college basketball.    But Wojo hasn't built up the S-16, S-16, E-8 cache that Buzz had.    The fact that Wojo will more than likely finish this season having won 105-110 games in years 2-6 would be enough if there had been a NCAA tourney win or two sprinkled in.   It is enough to keep his seat from warming up, no matter how much wailing and gnashing of teeth goes on.     But until he wins a couple tourney games, or gets a team to far out perform its perceived potential, there are going to be those who are going to pound their fists.
 

Big opportunity this year.    With what left, and the string of injuries, if MU has a record similar to last year and actually wins a tourney game, a whole lot of people are either going to have to be quiet, change their opinion, or start looking for other things to complain about.

Yep.

As Scoopers go, I am relatively bullish on Wojo. Not as much as I was before Hausershima, but still bullish nonetheless. I think he has improved as a coach, I don't want him to be fired, I think he can still build a program we'll be proud of long-term.

With that as my backdrop, I say only somebody with questionable basketball knowledge would suggest or imply in any way that Wojo is the same level of coach that Buzz is.

Buzz fell into a good situation at Marquette, and he made it better; one could even argue considerably better. He also went into a basketball wasteland and quickly made it a team to be reckoned with in the ACC. And I wouldn't bet against him having big success at TAMU, either.

If Buzz only won a little at MU after having inherited the Amigos, it would be one thing. But he won big at MU, even after the Amigos were long gone, and he then won big again at Va Tech -- their best success in school history -- despite inheriting crap that was worse than what he left behind at MU for Wojo.

It's silliness -- and/or abject hatred for Buzz -- to suggest otherwise. Facts are our friends.

That doesn't mean Wojo is destined to leave MU without having taken us where Buzz did. I think the best chapters of his Marquette book are still to be written.

As for your last paragraph, tower, I doubt that even a S16 run would change the NoJos' minds about Wojo. When we were going 20-2 over 3 months last year, few of them actually thought he was proving himself to be even a decent coach, or they just avoided Scoop all together because they were much happier when they could be miserable. The losses to Creighton and Providence got 'em all scurrying back to Scoop.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Updated trajectory ratings since MU joined new Big East
« Reply #81 on: January 21, 2020, 04:12:51 PM »
Yep.

As Scoopers go, I am relatively bullish on Wojo. Not as much as I was before Hausershima, but still bullish nonetheless. I think he has improved as a coach, I don't want him to be fired, I think he can still build a program we'll be proud of long-term.

With that as my backdrop, I say only somebody with questionable basketball knowledge would suggest or imply in any way that Wojo is the same level of coach that Buzz is.

Buzz fell into a good situation at Marquette, and he made it better; one could even argue considerably better. He also went into a basketball wasteland and quickly made it a team to be reckoned with in the ACC. And I wouldn't bet against him having big success at TAMU, either.

If Buzz only won a little at MU after having inherited the Amigos, it would be one thing. But he won big at MU, even after the Amigos were long gone, and he then won big again at Va Tech -- their best success in school history -- despite inheriting crap that was worse than what he left behind at MU for Wojo.

It's silliness -- and/or abject hatred for Buzz -- to suggest otherwise. Facts are our friends.

That doesn't mean Wojo is destined to leave MU without having taken us where Buzz did. I think the best chapters of his Marquette book are still to be written.


100% agree on all but the last paragraph.

100% hope that the last paragraph turns out to be true.