Kevin Willard...views of him from Scoop Intelligentsia Past

[Cheeks]

Case in point, let's see how Scoopers thought of Kevin Willard in the past....yet Seton Hall stuck with him and now he has a top 15 Ken Pom
program....because his school wasn't pissing their trousers and knee jerking left and right to the whims of fans.


"No one is hired for their coaching skills. Look at Willard. His "coaching skills" have lost more games than won but his brown bag goes deep so he's still working. Hire the guy who's gonna get you the talent and stay blind to the dirty work of getting wins."
- Golden Avalanche, 2018


"I do think he may have the starting job locked up, but that isn't a good thing for him or Seton Hall, and exactly why some think the Willard era is about to go into a flaming death spiral. Because his replacement for Khadeen Carrington was the worst player on a sub-300 team."
-Brewcity77, 2018

"Reminded me of many of Creans teams,  agree with others, it boils down to the coach.  Willard is average as is Crean.  Good coaches would have done much more"
-Sandknit, 2018

"Seriously guys, Wojo made everyone not named Purnell and Willard look like geniuses."
-Mattyv1908, 2015

"If MU is the 2019 version of Seton Hall this year I think you have to question coaching (I don't Willard is a very good coach)"
-NotAnAlum, 2018


And on and on.  Suddenly, he's the cat's meow. 

[🏀]

I want Marquette to be nothing similar to Willard’s team.


People love SH right now, they loved SLU, rise and repeat.

[GooooMarquette]

I want Marquette to be nothing similar to Willard’s team.

This. Huggins is a good coach too - much better than Willard - but I would not want him at MU.

[Cheeks]

I want Marquette to be nothing similar to Willard’s team.


People love SH right now, they loved SLU, rise and repeat.

Not the point....it's about identifying coaching acumen on this board.  I could do the same thing with 20 other coaches.....we aren't very good at identifying coaches that are good or not good here....which is likely how it should be since we are just fans.  Too many coaches become flavor of the day here, or too many buried as terrible and go on to do just fine.

[GooooMarquette]

Cheeks - I agree totally with your original point; that SHU is being rewarded for its patience with Willard. In his first five seasons at SHU, he was well below .500 in the BE (and just barely over .500 overall), and didn't go to a single NCAA tournament. So your point is well taken: many here who are constantly ripping on Wojo likely would have drawn and quartered Willard after five seasons.

[muwarrior69]

Yes, I have been to the Rock now for about 12 years. When we were beating them and they were not so good they have maybe 5k fans in the lower bowl. Last Saturday's game was the first time I was there where that they opened the upper deck and you could really feel the excitement. Willard had problems with team chemistry when Whitehead was there and players transferred, yet look at where they are now.

I am 73, hopefully I'll live long enough to see that excitement at MU again. If, I can be patient I hope the some of you can be as well. If I have one criticism of Wojo and it is just my perception he is just a little to wound up during games. He always seems to have lost his voice in the huddle as he seems to shout at the players rather than calm and collectively talk to the players.

[MDMU04]

This anecdotal evidence of one guy with an otherwise unremarkable career putting a singular team together at a different program with significantly less resources than ours does nothing to change my opinion of our current head coach.

All I take from this is if we wait long enough, Wojo might catch lightning in a bottle too.

[GooooMarquette]

This anecdotal evidence of one guy with an otherwise unremarkable career putting a singular team together at a different program with significantly less resources than ours does nothing to change my opinion of our current head coach.

All I take from this is if we wait long enough, Wojo might catch lightning in a bottle too.

Perhaps you could also be reminded that patience is a virtue....

[Cheeks]

This anecdotal evidence of one guy with an otherwise unremarkable career putting a singular team together at a different program with significantly less resources than ours does nothing to change my opinion of our current head coach.

All I take from this is if we wait long enough, Wojo might catch lightning in a bottle too.

I can do the same exercise of more than “one guy” and show the same results of MU Scoopers saying a coach sucked who has done fine, or the opposite where Scoopers fall in love with a coach and he bombs in his career.  Scoopers not particularly good at identifying coaches for the long haul.

[Golden Avalanche]

Case in point, let's see how Scoopers thought of Kevin Willard in the past....yet Seton Hall stuck with him and now he has a top 15 Ken Pom
program....because his school wasn't pissing their trousers and knee jerking left and right to the whims of fans.


"No one is hired for their coaching skills. Look at Willard. His "coaching skills" have lost more games than won but his brown bag goes deep so he's still working. Hire the guy who's gonna get you the talent and stay blind to the dirty work of getting wins."
- Golden Avalanche, 2018

Are you too dense to get my point?

Or did you purposely ignore my point in some misguided way to make up for Wojo having a bad 10 days?

[#UnleashSean]

dude is seriously unstable.

[MDMU04]

I can do the same exercise of more than “one guy” and show the same results of MU Scoopers saying a coach sucked who has done fine, or the opposite where Scoopers fall in love with a coach and he bombs in his career.  Scoopers not particularly good at identifying coaches for the long haul.

And none of any of the guys you identify will have anything whatsoever to do with our coach other than that they’re in the same profession and people had opinions about them.

[Jay Bee]

In his first 5 years, they made no NCAA tourneys and never finished .500 in the BEast.

Fortunately for KW, these years are ignored.

KW 2020

[WarriorDad]

dude is seriously unstable.
[/quote

This is an example of the hate and vitriol people are talking about. 

[MDMU04]

dude is seriously unstable.
[/quote

This is an example of the hate and vitriol people are talking about.

[GB Warrior]

If both were still in the BE, would we hate Cronin or Willard more?

[lurch91]

If both were still in the BE, would we hate Cronin or Willard more?

Easy answer, we'd hate Huggins more.

[WarriorPride68]

Fred's son has done well for himself. Also, both are lewd

[Cheeks]

Are you too dense to get my point?

Or did you purposely ignore my point in some misguided way to make up for Wojo having a bad 10 days?

MU beat Villanova 10 days ago, so not sure on the bad days' comments....am I too dense to get it?  I think 10 days ago was a very good day for Wojo, I suspect 9 days ago was, too.

I don't believe I purposely ignored anything, but by all means, explain your comments if you wish.

End of the day, fans are emotional and love the 2nd string QB...love the coach they don't have...love the date they aren't with.  We have been epic here of burying coaches who turned out just fine, or anointing coaches that crashed and burned.  We are really good at having a list of criteria for another coach that looks eerily the same for the coach we cannot wait to throw into the ocean.   

At the end of the day, simply changing for the sake of change without identifying who is going to be the replacement is a fool's errand that I'm quite sure the accomplished folks in the athletic department know.

[cheebs09]

At the end of the day, it’s about what are your goals for the program and is Wojo the coach to achieve those goals? I think for some, the goal is another National Championship or being a consistent threat for the second weekend.

 I’d personally like to see a title in my lifetime. I’m jealous of the crowd around in 1977. I hope Wojo is the coach that can do that. I’m getting more skeptical that he is that coach.

I think there are real concerns that Wojo won’t be any higher than a coach who will have you on the bubble most years with the possibility for better when his anchor class gets experience. If we lost to Holy Cross in 03, I bet there are similar discussions on this board later in the Crean era.

[WhiteTrash]

At the end of the day, simply changing for the sake of change without identifying who is going to be the replacement is a fool's errand that I'm quite sure the accomplished folks in the athletic department know.

I would bet my life savings that MU has a list of replacement coaches right now and have had it for years and constantly update the list. As you say, the athletic department has "accomplished folks" and will always be ready to make a change.

[Cheeks]

I would bet my life savings that MU has a list of replacement coaches right now and have had it for years and constantly update the list. As you say, the athletic department has "accomplished folks" and will always be ready to make a change.

No doubt they do....we can all make lists, some here have...that doesn't mean a single one of them chooses to come.   

[Cheeks]

At the end of the day, it’s about what are your goals for the program and is Wojo the coach to achieve those goals? I think for some, the goal is another National Championship or being a consistent threat for the second weekend.

 I’d personally like to see a title in my lifetime. I’m jealous of the crowd around in 1977. I hope Wojo is the coach that can do that. I’m getting more skeptical that he is that coach.

I think there are real concerns that Wojo won’t be any higher than a coach who will have you on the bubble most years with the possibility for better when his anchor class gets experience. If we lost to Holy Cross in 03, I bet there are similar discussions on this board later in the Crean era.

Hasn't the goal been to do that for probably 75 programs?  There is a reason why only a handful win it, because it is so damn hard....so much luck, plus the right players, etc.   I'd love to win one, too.  In my mind you do it bottoms up.  You strive to win the conference, make the tournament, be successful to set yourself and then see how the tournament plays out. 

Here's the irony, and Al said this to me, the department, and the media.  The 1977 team, for which we are all jealous, that was not his best team.  I believe he said it was like his 5th or 6th best team...but that's the one that got enough of the bounces, enough of the good Karma, luck, great poise by great players, etc, to win.  His best teams, didn't get that. 

[burger]

Easy answer, we'd hate Huggins more.

Some of you are too young.....Huggins actually had a couple of players kidnap a local drug dealer.....tie him up.....and torture him with a "red hot" metal coat hanger to have him tell them where his "stash" was located....

That is an all timer.....

[WhiteTrash]

No doubt they do....we can all make lists, some here have...that doesn't mean a single one of them chooses to come.

So MU's AD has a list of unrealistic coaches? I guess you don't think very highly of MU's AD.

I believe MU's AD and athletic department are very good and true professionals that know what they are doing. Sorry you disagree.

[Golden Avalanche]

MU beat Villanova 10 days ago, so not sure on the bad days' comments....am I too dense to get it?  I think 10 days ago was a very good day for Wojo, I suspect 9 days ago was, too.

I don't believe I purposely ignored anything, but by all means, explain your comments if you wish.

End of the day, fans are emotional and love the 2nd string QB...love the coach they don't have...love the date they aren't with.  We have been epic here of burying coaches who turned out just fine, or anointing coaches that crashed and burned.  We are really good at having a list of criteria for another coach that looks eerily the same for the coach we cannot wait to throw into the ocean.   

At the end of the day, simply changing for the sake of change without identifying who is going to be the replacement is a fool's errand that I'm quite sure the accomplished folks in the athletic department know.

Thank you for admitting you purposely ignored my point to misrepresent what was written about Willard.

[We R Final Four]

dude is seriously unstable.

Chico's?  I would say more fragile than unstable.

[WhoaJoe2020]

So MU's AD has a list of unrealistic coaches? I guess you don't think very highly of MU's AD.

I believe MU's AD and athletic department are very good and true professionals that know what they are doing. Sorry you disagree.

I'm sure they have a list of potential targets. Whoever they are, they all need to meet several criteria to be realistic.
Availability, a quality individual,, a good fit for the MU system, the prospect of long term stability and success , and a pedigree from a program with high level success.

Damn...... I just described Wojo

[Cheeks]

Thank you for admitting you purposely ignored my point to misrepresent what was written about Willard.

I didn't then and I am admitting no such thing.   "I don't believe I purposely ignored anything, but by all means, explain your comments if you wish."   If you wish to explain yourself further I am all ears, but rest assured I am admitting so such thing. 

[WhiteTrash]

I'm sure they have a list of potential targets. Whoever they are, they all need to meet several criteria to be realistic.
Availability, a quality individual,, a good fit for the MU system, the prospect of long term stability and success , and a pedigree from a program with high level success.

Damn...... I just described Wojo

LOL! This is what my kids call a 'bad dad joke'.

As a dad who tells bad jokes, I liked it. Well played sir.

[WhoaJoe2020]

LOL! This is what my kids call a 'bad dad joke'.

As a dad who tells bad jokes, I liked it. Well played sir.

I try.....

[Cheeks]

As a reminder, Kevin Willard went to the following his first five seasons at Seton Hall

ZERO NCAA Tournaments
ONE NIT Tournament


They currently have a three game lead in the Big East conference

[dajudge]

This. Huggins is a good coach too - much better than Willard - but I would not want him at MU.

Amen

[Dr. Blackheart]

As a reminder, Kevin Willard went to the following his first five seasons at Seton Hall

ZERO NCAA Tournaments
ONE NIT Tournament


They currently have a three game lead in the Big East conference

Preceeded by BoGo, Louis Orr, Tommy Ammacker and George Blaney. Keep trying.

Wojo is 1-21 versus Pomeroy Top 25 teams. In the next three games, he is likely to play three more. Let’s talk then. I expect 2-1. Win tomorrow, and MU is tied for 2nd.   

Go Warriors!

[cheebs09]

Willard has 1 NCAA win in 9 years. He’s having a great year but it’s not like beyond those years he’s been killing it. His resume reads like Crean without the Final Four.

[Cheeks]

Willard has 1 NCAA win in 9 years. He’s having a great year but it’s not like beyond those years he’s been killing it. His resume reads like Crean without the Final Four.

My point is that the knuckleheads wanted him fired, just as the knuckleheads wanted Wright fired, and on and on.

[Cheeks]

Preceeded by BoGo, Louis Orr, Tommy Ammacker and George Blaney. Keep trying.

Wojo is 1-21 versus Pomeroy Top 25 teams. In the next three games, he is likely to play three more. Let’s talk then. I expect 2-1. Win tomorrow, and MU is tied for 2nd.   

Go Warriors!

That stat....source please. 

Louis Orr took the Pirates to the NCAA tournament 2 of his last three years...including his final year.  Willard took over for Gonzalez who went to the NIT his final year.

I know you keep wanting to compare Wojo to Crean and Buzz, but those two got to recruit different players than Wojo is allowed to...so why do you and others keep making the false comparisons?

[Its DJOver]

CBB is cyclical.  SH has a likely AA this year, so they are going to be good.  They will drop off next year when he leaves.  The thing I would question about Willard (which I think you can say about every Beast coach not named Wright) is their consistency.  He pulled Whitehead, Delgado, Carrington, Rodriguez, and Powell in a very good 3 year stretch.  Their current Freshman class is a pair of 3*s, their incoming class is a pair of 3*s.  You need to be able to consistently recruit well to stay on top.  They'll still have Cale, Mamu, Reynolds and Rhoden next year, so they won't drop of a cliff, but that recruiting needs an uptick in order to keep this current level of success.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That stat....source please. 

I posted this earlier but cannot find it.  During Wojo's career, he has gone something like 2-23 against teams who ended the year KenPom top 25.  Villanova when they were #1 and Wisconsin when we had Henry.

[Dr. Blackheart]

That stat....source please. 

Louis Orr took the Pirates to the NCAA tournament 2 of his last three years...including his final year.  Willard took over for Gonzalez who went to the NIT his final year.

I know you keep wanting to compare Wojo to Crean and Buzz, but those two got to recruit different players than Wojo is allowed to...so why do you and others keep making the false comparisons?

Paint Touches is the source. Let’s reverse this the next three games. Hall with a tough win today but their first half schedule was weak.  Let’s win this conference.

And, please tell me you aren’t favorably comparing Wojo to BoGo and Louie Orr? 

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59840.msg1199707#msg1199707

[wadesworld]

I posted this earlier but cannot find it.  During Wojo's career, he has gone something like 2-23 against teams who ended the year KenPom top 25.  Villanova when they were #1 and Wisconsin when we had Henry.

I didn’t go through all of it, but we beat Wisconsin at home last year and they finished 16th in Kenpom, Buffalo at home last year and they finished 22nd in KenPom, and Louisville on a neutral and they finished 23rd in Kenpom. So maybe all years prior to that is accurate but I don’t think that record is correct.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

OK, then that must have been the Wisconsin victory.  Thanks for the correction.

Put it this way, it wasn't very good and paled to Buzz's record in comparison.

[MU82]

So all the great wins against ranked teams don't count because the opponents didn't end the year as KenPom top-25 teams?

Ridiculous.

[wadesworld]

OK, then that must have been the Wisconsin victory.  Thanks for the correction.

Put it this way, it wasn't very good and paled to Buzz's record in comparison.

Just edited it. Also beat Buffalo and Louisville who finished top 25 in Kenpom last year. So had more than 2 top 25 KenPom wins...just last year.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Just edited it. Also beat Buffalo and Louisville who finished top 25 in Kenpom last year. So had more than 2 top 25 KenPom wins...just last year.

Sorry.  Paint Touches story with 1-21 were away from home games vs. Top 25.  Buffalo and Whiskey were home games.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Just edited it. Also beat Buffalo and Louisville who finished top 25 in Kenpom last year. So had more than 2 top 25 KenPom wins...just last year.

Cool. If I care enough to find the post I will. Clearly my memory is wrong about the details.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So all the great wins against ranked teams don't count because the opponents didn't end the year as KenPom top-25 teams?

Ridiculous.

It was a metric applied consistently and was easy to research.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Here it is. 2-24 against teams that finished the year Kenpom top 20.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59610.msg1187706#msg1187706

[BM1090]

Here it is. 2-24 against teams that finished the year Kenpom top 20.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59610.msg1187706#msg1187706

Stat is still inaccurate. 2 last year (UW/KSU) and Nova 2017. Those might be the only 3 but I didn't look further than 2019

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Stat is still inaccurate. 2 last year (UW/KSU) and Nova 2017. Those might be the only 3 but I didn't look further than 2019

Thanks for the correction.

[SoCalEagle]

Some of you are too young.....Huggins actually had a couple of players kidnap a local drug dealer.....tie him up.....and torture him with a "red hot" metal coat hanger to have him tell them where his "stash" was located....

That is an all timer.....

I also like the story of the guy that punched a police horse ....

[Cheeks]

Sorry.  Paint Touches story with 1-21 were away from home games vs. Top 25.  Buffalo and Whiskey were home games.

Ahhh....yeah, I knew the claim made was complete bullshyte, but glad it is now corrected.

In other news, Fox had their top four seed lines today.  Three of our five losses come from teams seeded 2nd through fourth.  We also have a win over a projected three seed.

[Cheeks]

Here it is. 2-24 against teams that finished the year Kenpom top 20.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59610.msg1187706#msg1187706

Too bad it is fake news and false. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Ahhh....yeah, I knew the claim made was complete bullshyte, but glad it is now corrected.

In other news, Fox had their top four seed lines today.  Three of our five losses come from teams seeded 2nd through fourth.  We also have a win over a projected three seed.

Just win the next three and we can lay it to rest, hey?

[cheebs09]

Willard went 3-4 down the stretch to tie for the Big East title.

He hasn’t made it past the second round yet in 8+ years. I’m not sure this makes me feel a ton better about the Wojo era.

[CreightonWarrior]

Kevin Willard ‘really pissed’ as Creighton beats Seton Hall for share of Big East title ... then rubs Pirates’ noses in it

I'm enjoying this.

[JWags85]

Willard went 3-4 down the stretch to tie for the Big East title.

He hasn’t made it past the second round yet in 8+ years. I’m not sure this makes me feel a ton better about the Wojo era.

5 of the last 10 including 3 at home. Still a lot of basketball left, but that’s careening into the home stretch with overheated brakes for what should be their best season since Carliesmo left

[WarriorFan]

Willard and Wojo are comparable from the standpoint that they would be the last and 2nd last guys on the planet you'd want coaching your team down 2 with 30 seconds left. 

They are also both quite good at recruiting.

The main - and critically important difference - is that Willard's teams are tough.  They are more like Buzz's teams.  In fact, in many ways Willard reminds me of Buzz but with about 12 fewer psychological disorders. 

[willie warrior]

Cheeks - I agree totally with your original point; that SHU is being rewarded for its patience with Willard. In his first five seasons at SHU, he was well below .500 in the BE (and just barely over .500 overall), and didn't go to a single NCAA tournament. So your point is well taken: many here who are constantly ripping on Wojo likely would have drawn and quartered Willard after five seasons.

Oh yeah. Now it is Willard portrayed as reason to keep Wojo. Previously it was Wright. Yes, we have seen the light. Wojos turnaround is just around the corner.

[brewcity77]

The main - and critically important difference - is that Willard's teams are tough.  They are more like Buzz's teams.  In fact, in many ways Willard reminds me of Buzz but with about 12 fewer psychological disorders.

Buzz used to be Willard's biggest defender. Always talked him up as a great coach. They're cut from the same cloth, but where Buzz is the better coach, Willard is the more loyal.

[rocket surgeon]

so we are playing a really pissed off SH team on 9:30 thursday night on a floor that is more home to them than to us...speakin of wojo only leaving(maybe) if there's an opening somewhere?  either coach shashefskeee opens up a spot next to scheyer or unlv may have an opening 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

There aren't going to be many openings this year.  And the last month has really taken any shine that may have been left on Wojo.  Any fanbase whose school hires Wojo is going to hugely disappointed.

[brewcity77]

There aren't going to be many openings this year.  And the last month has really taken any shine that may have been left on Wojo.  Any fanbase whose school hires Wojo is going to hugely disappointed.

It depends. If it's a fanbase already disappointed that sees Wojo walk in with a top-10 recruiting class (which he could still do) then maybe he's satisfying in the short term.

[willie warrior]

There aren't going to be many openings this year.  And the last month has really taken any shine that may have been left on Wojo.  Any fanbase whose school hires Wojo is going to hugely disappointed.

Yes  that is why we should be happy to have him