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Author Topic: MU Coaching Candidates  (Read 159651 times)

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1050 on: February 24, 2021, 02:13:51 PM »
There is one more situation. Wojo is retained, has a good year next season and grows from there as Marquette's coach.

I don't believe it will happen and think in a non-COVID year he should be fired (barring a miracle run to end the season) but it is not "all over."

I'd also add, that if/when Wojo leaves, we likely aren't getting a brand name coach. Wojo makes less than the vast majority of high major coaches, we don't pay enough to steal from most other high majors. We may get lucky if a guy like Beilein who's been out of coaching for awhile wants to sign up, but Beilein may come with baggage and Matta seems like he's waiting for Butler. I don't think there are any others currently available.

What we will end up with is most likely either a mid-major head coach, high-major assistant coach, or a recently fired high-major head coach. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fire Wojo because one of those guys likely could do a better job. But picking the right one will be tricky.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 02:22:55 PM by TAMU Eagle »
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wadesworld

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1051 on: February 24, 2021, 02:27:25 PM »
Donovan was never a realistic option for Marquette, I agree with you there.  Maybe ten years from now after he’s been fired from two more NBA coaching jobs and has taken two years off and is looking to get back in the game, maybe then, if we happen to be in the market for a coach and we’re lucky, he’d take our call.

Now with that being said, what I don’t agree with is the spirit of your post.  You seem to think it’s absurd for us to hope that any coach of merit would want to come to MU, so we may as well stick with Wojo, because just like you need 68 teams for a 68 team tournament, you need a coach to coach a basketball team, and who’s coming to Marquette, huh?  Yeah, that’s what I thought, so you might as well stick with Wojo.

But like I’ve said before, it’s all over for Marquette when it comes to Wojo.  Any way you slice it, Wojo will not be here after next season is over.  If he’s retained for 21-22, he’ll either have another bad year and get canned, or have a good one and bolt for another job because it may well be his last, best chance to leave on his own without getting fired.

I know you love Wojo, you’ve been his biggest acolyte on here besides Chico and were a massive jerk to anyone who dared question his greatness (and you know it), but it’s all over.  Just accept it.  Or go to Kohl’s and buy some red.  Either one works.

I don't think it's absurd to think it's "absurd" to hope "any coach of merit would want to come to MU."  What I think is absurd is thinking we should've fired Wojo after he finished in second place in the Big East and lost in the first round of a 5-12 upset.  If Thad Matta himself showed up in Scholl's office and said, "Hey, I'm in for coaching MU for $2M a year.  Just write up the contract."  Then sure, you fire Wojo after the Hausers leave and you bring in the guy who's proven he can do it.

I don't "love Wojo."  I love calling out the absolute BS that Scoop presents ("Hey!  Billy Donovan's available!").  I'd be thrilled to move on from Wojo as I don't think he has the ability to coach up a team.  But I also understand that there's a pandemic going on and heading into this season he would've made it to 3 NCAA Tournaments in 4 years had there not been a pandemic going on, so I also am realistic about the chances of MU moving on after this season and I'm not going to fire up the torches and get out the pitchforks if a change doesn't happen.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1052 on: February 24, 2021, 02:31:59 PM »
I don't think it's absurd to think it's "absurd" to hope "any coach of merit would want to come to MU."  What I think is absurd is thinking we should've fired Wojo after he finished in second place in the Big East and lost in the first round of a 5-12 upset.  If Thad Matta himself showed up in Scholl's office and said, "Hey, I'm in for coaching MU for $2M a year.  Just write up the contract."  Then sure, you fire Wojo after the Hausers leave and you bring in the guy who's proven he can do it.

I don't "love Wojo."  I love calling out the absolute BS that Scoop presents ("Hey!  Billy Donovan's available!").  I'd be thrilled to move on from Wojo as I don't think he has the ability to coach up a team.  But I also understand that there's a pandemic going on and heading into this season he would've made it to 3 NCAA Tournaments in 4 years had there not been a pandemic going on, so I also am realistic about the chances of MU moving on after this season and I'm not going to fire up the torches and get out the pitchforks if a change doesn't happen.

Yeah there's a difference between obsessively rehashing something that was a far fetched pipe dream from months ago as if it was a serious idea and calling it BS at the time... you're the former and it's actually pretty depressing. Do you still text ex's and call them out about something they did on the first date at MU? Text former roommates and say "I can't believe you didn't wash your dishes in 2010!"?

At this point it's almost worth it to start trolling you about your many 'interesting' takes over the years on scoop. Many of which aren't genius either. Not to mention of all the stupid things said on here over the years what an odd one to fixate on.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 02:37:33 PM by Galway Eagle »
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wadesworld

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1053 on: February 24, 2021, 03:00:05 PM »
Yeah there's a difference between obsessively rehashing something that was a far fetched pipe dream from months ago as if it was a serious idea and calling it BS at the time... you're the former and it's actually pretty depressing. Do you still text ex's and call them out about something they did on the first date at MU? Text former roommates and say "I can't believe you didn't wash your dishes in 2010!"?

At this point it's almost worth it to start trolling you about your many 'interesting' takes over the years on scoop. Many of which aren't genius either. Not to mention of all the stupid things said on here over the years what an odd one to fixate on.

Please have at it.

The point is that firing a coach after a couple decent seasons while he's currently struggling mightily is much easier to do when there is supposedly a coach who's been to two Final Fours asking you to take them in as their next head coach.  Who is that for Marquette?  Billy Donovan would've been a nice one.  But he was always taking another NBA head coaching job.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1054 on: February 24, 2021, 03:12:34 PM »
I said it was almost worth it. >14k posts is a few too many to go through to make it worth it.

I don't believe we have one for Marquette. Essentially what I was trying to say regarding Donovan is nobody's going to reach out send out a feeler with a brief emotional appeal and see if there's interest. For him "Midwest guy, catholic school, big East experience, found most success at college" no different than my opinions regarding Beilein, Mata and any other super successfully coach who retired early and may have been without a job. Obviously at the time I didn't foresee him hopping over the Bulls right away.
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dgies9156

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1055 on: February 24, 2021, 03:21:02 PM »
John Beilien would be an excellent coach for Marquette. My only concern is he is 67 years old and how much staying power he has. I'd trade a short term with an NCAA Final Four for a long-term middling coach any day.

Thad Motta generally falls into the same category, though I think he has a few more miles left on him. While I can't speak to the personal links to Butler, I'd think we would be a very attractive option for him.

With both of these guys, you better have the contracts drawn and have them locked in President Lovell's office BEFORE moving on from Wojo. Then you call Wojo and write him a check. NO MORE SHAKA!!!!

All this said, I really don't think Marquette is terminating Coach Wojo this year. I suspect he has one more year to prove himself. I would have thought this year would be the defining moment but the Covid-19 pandemic, the lack of summer conditioning and training and the lost practice before the season started all are convenient excuses.

I would expect his seat to be 1000 Kelvin next year if our team does not materially improve.

My biggest fear: we improve just enough to make the tournament and even win a game against an unsuspecting foe. The BOT and AD extend Wojo's contract and tell all the Nojos to pound sand. We end up mired in mediocrity for another genearation.




Hards Alumni

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1056 on: February 24, 2021, 03:33:08 PM »
John Beilien would be an excellent coach for Marquette. My only concern is he is 67 years old and how much staying power he has. I'd trade a short term with an NCAA Final Four for a long-term middling coach any day.

Thad Motta generally falls into the same category, though I think he has a few more miles left on him. While I can't speak to the personal links to Butler, I'd think we would be a very attractive option for him.

With both of these guys, you better have the contracts drawn and have them locked in President Lovell's office BEFORE moving on from Wojo. Then you call Wojo and write him a check. NO MORE SHAKA!!!!

All this said, I really don't think Marquette is terminating Coach Wojo this year. I suspect he has one more year to prove himself. I would have thought this year would be the defining moment but the Covid-19 pandemic, the lack of summer conditioning and training and the lost practice before the season started all are convenient excuses.

I would expect his seat to be 1000 Kelvin next year if our team does not materially improve.

My biggest fear: we improve just enough to make the tournament and even win a game against an unsuspecting foe. The BOT and AD extend Wojo's contract and tell all the Nojos to pound sand. We end up mired in mediocrity for another genearation.

I'm not sure how we are a better team next year considering what we are losing.  3 seniors and *probably* DJ Carton out the door.  I don't even know who our starters are...

Garcia, Lewis, Elliot, Sy, and Perez?  Sounds like we should be good for about 9th in the BEAST.  The 3 incoming freshman are top 100 talent, and I'm happy we landed them, but the class reminds me of the Cain/Elliot/John class so much.  And they're probably going to need a year of work before being major contributors.

If Wojo is smart, he is running out the open door towards greener pastures.

dgies9156

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1057 on: February 24, 2021, 03:41:05 PM »
I'm not sure how we are a better team next year considering what we are losing.  3 seniors and *probably* DJ Carton out the door.  I don't even know who our starters are...

Garcia, Lewis, Elliot, Sy, and Perez?  Sounds like we should be good for about 9th in the BEAST.  The 3 incoming freshman are top 100 talent, and I'm happy we landed them, but the class reminds me of the Cain/Elliot/John class so much.  And they're probably going to need a year of work before being major contributors.

If Wojo is smart, he is running out the open door towards greener pastures.

Not as sure as you Carton is gone if Wojo stays. Just don't see it.

The core of the team is Carton, Lewis and Garcia. Would like to think Stevie Mitchell or Kameron Jones would be an impact player and that one or two transfer could contribute. But I get your point and unless we see a significant step-up, next year is going to be a s*itfest.

The question now is, "Exactly how hot is Wojo's seat?" It's a little warmer than the bun warmers built into the seat of his car but I doubt his pants are on fire -- yet!

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1058 on: February 24, 2021, 03:52:39 PM »
The 3 incoming freshman are top 100 talent, and I'm happy we landed them, but the class reminds me of the Cain/Elliot/John class so much.  And they're probably going to need a year of work before being major contributors.

I mean, they might end up being like the 2017 class but per 247:

2017:
Big East Rank: 8/10
National Rank: 59
Team Score: 45.01
Jamal Cain: #145
Theo John: #204
Greg Elliott: #224
Ike Eke: #361

2021:
Big East Rank: 5/11
National Rank: 21 (12 with KC)
Team Score: 57.41 (60.08 with KC)
Jonas Aidoo: #60
Stevie Mitchell: #86
Kameron Jones: #162
(Kordell Charles: #167)

Rankings aren't everything, but at least on paper, this class is significantly better than the 2017 class. All 3 commits (4 if Charles signs up) are all ranked higher than the entire 2017 class minus Cain and the top 2 are higher than Cain.

If the big 3 stay and we don't lose everybody else (and don't replace them with better transfers), we should be a better team next season than we are this season.

Even so, I'd still prefer to move on to another coach.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 03:55:47 PM by TAMU Eagle »
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dgies9156

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1059 on: February 24, 2021, 03:57:02 PM »
I mean, they might end up being like the 2017 class but per 247:

2017:
Big East Rank: 8/10
National Rank: 59
Team Score: 45.01
Jamal Cain: #145
Theo John: #204
Greg Elliott: #224
Ike Eke: #361

2021:
Big East Rank: 5/11
National Rank: 21 (12 with KC)
Team Score: 57.41 (60.08 with KC)
Jonas Aidoo: #60
Stevie Mitchell: #86
Kameron Jones: #162
(Kordell Charles: #167)

Rankings aren't everything, but at least on paper, this class is significantly better than the 2017 class. All 3 commits (4 if Charles signs up) are all ranked higher than the entire 2017 class minus Cain and the top 2 are higher than Cain.

If the big 3 stay and we don't lose everybody else (and don't replace them with better transfers), we should be a better team next season than we are this season.

Even so, I'd still prefer to move on to another coach.

Thanks Brother TAMU. I agree with every point you make.

MU82

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1060 on: February 24, 2021, 04:02:54 PM »
If DJ, Garcia and Lewis all return, if 2 of our recruits can contribute at least as much as Lewis did before he got hurt, and if Wojo brings in a couple of good transfers, I actually believe we can be quite good next season.

Freshmen who get the kind of run Garcia has and pre-injury Lewis did almost always are much better as sophomores.

I know, I know ... Wojo can't develop anybody!

Except look at Markus and Sam as sophomores. They went from solid role players to stars.

I know, I know ... The guys who regressed or stayed relatively the same - Wojo's fault. The guys who improved - happened in spite of Wojo. I get the drill.

But silly me, I'm gonna say that Garcia and Lewis will improve a lot next season - hopefully at Marquette. So will DJ, who is more like a redshirt freshman this season. I don't think there will be many BEast teams that have a better trio than that if they all stay.

Then it's a matter of putting good (or better than merely good) role players around them, which is doable with the no-sit transfer rules and the promise of playing time.

I'm an optimist, yes, but I'm also a realist. I'm not predicting a BEast title or anything. Hell, I'm on the record as saying Wojo already should have been fired, and I mean it.

But if he isn't fired and if DJ, DG and JL stay, I think we will be better next season than quite a few other Scoopers do.

Now, if one or more of those 3 bolt, none of the incoming recruits is ready to contribute and/or Wojo can't land an impact transfer or two, yes, we'll suck again next season.

But I'm gonna choose to accentuate the positive until I have reason to do otherwise. And for me, "Wojo sucks!" is not reason to do otherwise. He sucked in 2017 and 2019, too, and I very much enjoyed watching those teams (the latter until the mutiny, at least).
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muwarrior69

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1061 on: February 24, 2021, 04:04:47 PM »
If Butler gets Matta, and DePaul actually hires a respected basketball coach, the bottom of the Big East definitely evolves headed into next year.

I'd be worried as an MU fan if things stay the course going into next season.


What me worry?




Hards Alumni

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1062 on: February 24, 2021, 04:10:09 PM »
But I'm gonna choose to accentuate the positive until I have reason to do otherwise. And for me, "Wojo sucks!" is not reason to do otherwise. He sucked in 2017 and 2019, too, and I very much enjoyed watching those teams (the latter until the mutiny, at least).

Spoken like someone who hasn't truly been hurt by Wojo yet.  ;)  You know the saying, "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again!"

MU82

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1063 on: February 24, 2021, 04:18:12 PM »
Spoken like someone who hasn't truly been hurt by Wojo yet.  ;)  You know the saying, "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again!"

Correct. He never fouled me hard after slapping the floor.
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JWags85

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1064 on: February 25, 2021, 11:53:16 PM »
We’ve talked about Damon Stoudamire a bit. I think he’s a good coach in the making, but I don’t love his style. Don’t score a lot of points, slow down and try to grind out games against better teams. It’s not UVA, but it’s not super visually pleasing. Watching Pacific vs St Mary’s tonight feels like extra points were given on each made basket for using more than 25 seconds on the shot clock. No thanks

willie warrior

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1065 on: February 26, 2021, 05:04:59 AM »
There is one more situation. Wojo is retained, has a good year next season and grows from there as Marquette's coach.

I don't believe it will happen and think in a non-COVID year he should be fired (barring a miracle run to end the season) but it is not "all over."

I'd also add, that if/when Wojo leaves, we likely aren't getting a brand name coach. Wojo makes less than the vast majority of high major coaches, we don't pay enough to steal from most other high majors. We may get lucky if a guy like Beilein who's been out of coaching for awhile wants to sign up, but Beilein may come with baggage and Matta seems like he's waiting for Butler. I don't think there are any others currently available.

What we will end up with is most likely either a mid-major head coach, high-major assistant coach, or a recently fired high-major head coach. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fire Wojo because one of those guys likely could do a better job. But picking the right one will be tricky.
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brewcity77

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1066 on: February 26, 2021, 06:17:25 AM »
All 3 commits (4 if Charles signs up) are all ranked higher than the entire 2017 class minus Cain and the top 2 are higher than Cain.

What happened to Cain that he fell that far? He was RSCI Top-100 in their first composite for the class (in the 90s, so barely, but he was there) and I only remember him putting up monster numbers as a senior (just checked, 24/14/4 as a senior). Why did he fall so far?
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Uncle Rico

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1067 on: February 26, 2021, 06:34:21 AM »
Sllllluuuurrrrpp! Gulp!

What are your thoughts on bringing Brian Wardle home?
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brewcity77

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1068 on: February 26, 2021, 06:42:09 AM »
What are your thoughts on bringing Brian Wardle home?

Great question. I'll expand. willie, if you could pick Marquette's next head coach, who would make you happy? Who do you think they should target?
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swoopem

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1069 on: February 26, 2021, 06:57:55 AM »
I fully understand that Wojo isn’t going to be fired due to covid but if it’s true that Beiline wants to get back into coaching then you have to kick the tires. If he’s interested in Marquette then act like a big time program and pull the trigger. It would suck to see him go to BC or some other lesser school knowing we could’ve had him. It’ll be like letting Nate Oates slip away after 2019 (yeah I know, 5 seed, not gonna fire Wojo, blah blah blah).

If you have your guy then hire him. Don’t put it off for another year when there’ll be no one near Beiline available to hire.

Granted this is all under the assumption that Beiline wants to coach again and would be interested in MU...and if true MU would be dumb as phuck not to look into that
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Uncle Rico

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1070 on: February 26, 2021, 07:11:36 AM »
I fully understand that Wojo isn’t going to be fired due to covid but if it’s true that Beiline wants to get back into coaching then you have to kick the tires. If he’s interested in Marquette then act like a big time program and pull the trigger. It would suck to see him go to BC or some other lesser school knowing we could’ve had him. It’ll be like letting Nate Oates slip away after 2019 (yeah I know, 5 seed, not gonna fire Wojo, blah blah blah).

If you have your guy then hire him. Don’t put it off for another year when there’ll be no one near Beiline available to hire.

Granted this is all under the assumption that Beiline wants to coach again and would be interested in MU...and if true MU would be dumb as phuck not to look into that

John Beilein

Pro’s:

Fantastic offensive coach
Wins everywhere
Adjusts his styles effectively

Con’s:

68 years-old
Possible package deal with his kid
Marquette fans spelling his name
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panda

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1071 on: February 26, 2021, 07:12:42 AM »
John Beilein

Pro’s:

Fantastic offensive coach
Wins everywhere
Adjusts his styles effectively

Con’s:

68 years-old
Possible package deal with his kid
Marquette fans spelling his name

Cons he called his players with the Cavs “slugs”

Uncle Rico

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1072 on: February 26, 2021, 07:41:07 AM »
Cons he called his players with the Cavs “slugs”

For some alum, that’s a pro
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Hards Alumni

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1073 on: February 26, 2021, 07:49:17 AM »
Great question. I'll expand. willie, if you could pick Marquette's next head coach, who would make you happy? Who do you think they should target?

A mythological Al McGuire type of person that doesn't exist, nor would be effective in today's game.

tower912

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1074 on: February 26, 2021, 07:51:57 AM »
Hologram Al.   With hologram Dean and hologram Wooden as his assistants.
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