Skipping the big game

[cheebs09]

I feel like this is the same as the NIL debate. People are maki the exception into the norm. I don't follow closely enough, but are non-first round picks skipping bowls?

People make it sound like these bowls are featuring walkons against each other.

Coaches also have their new employer pay the buyout more often than not. So not sure how big of a penalty that is.

[Jay Bee]

I feel like this is the same as the NIL debate. People are maki the exception into the norm. I don't follow closely enough, but are non-first round picks skipping bowls?

Absolutely.

[Cheeks]

I feel like this is the same as the NIL debate. People are maki the exception into the norm. I don't follow closely enough, but are non-first round picks skipping bowls?

People make it sound like these bowls are featuring walkons against each other.

Coaches also have their new employer pay the buyout more often than not. So not sure how big of a penalty that is.

And new employers are scared off if that new penalty is too high, but to hear some speak its as if any coach at any time can just get up on Tuesday, walk down to the corner coaching store and get a better gig whenever they want. 

And yes, more than just first rounders are skipping bowls games. 

I say all of this in a good natured way. 

[MU82]

I feel like this is the same as the NIL debate. People are maki the exception into the norm. I don't follow closely enough, but are non-first round picks skipping bowls?

People make it sound like these bowls are featuring walkons against each other.

Coaches also have their new employer pay the buyout more often than not. So not sure how big of a penalty that is.

It's definitely the exception and not the norm.

Having said that, sure, even some non-stars who care about their financial futures are skipping bowls. They have every right to do so ... just as they have every right to play in them; I wouldn't criticize them for that, either.

As you state, a buyout is absolutely no deterrent to a coach leaving. A buyout clause simply guarantees money for the school if the coach leaves. The new school pays the buyout almost every time. (I can't think of a recent example in which the new school didn't, but maybe there are examples out there, so I won't say it as an absolute.)

The App State coach bolted a couple weeks before his school's bowl game to take the job at Mizzou. He had only completed his first season at App State and had several years left on his contract. Nobody should begrudge him that. It's a better job, and he would be foolish not to secure a better financial future for himself and his family. But he is no more or less "disloyal" than an athlete who does the same, IMHO.

Again, Jim Chones left a Marquette team in the middle of a season -- one that many thought would have resulted in a national title had he stayed. His coach, Al McGuire, strongly backed the move; indeed, McGuire insisted on it. Why? Because McGuire wanted Chones to take care of his financial future.

[Jay Bee]

Having said that, sure, even some non-stars who care about their financial futures are skipping bowls.

Where do you - if anywhere - draw the line? What if they care about their financial future so they quit 10 games in? Only bowls are OK, or is it much deeper than that?

It's their right? Sure, anyone can say eff a contract, but there are remedies. Kids in this situation have a huge advantage BC iof the negative press aspect.

If a kid has a great first four weeks, are you supportive and praising of a kid quitting the team?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Where do you - if anywhere - draw the line? What if they care about their financial future so they quit 10 games in? Only bowls are OK, or is it much deeper than that?

It's their right? Sure, anyone can say eff a contract, but there are remedies. Kids in this situation have a huge advantage BC iof the negative press aspect.

If a kid has a great first four weeks, are you supportive and praising of a kid quitting the team?

This is just a slippery slope argument that has no real life examples as far as I know. Bowl games, due to taking place after the semester ends and weeks after the regular season, are a unique outlier that don't exist in other sports.

If a player wanted to quit four weeks in, that's fine. But I wouldn't  blame the school for rescinding their GIA and charging him.

[Jay Bee]

This is just a slippery slope argument that has no real life examples as far as I know. Bowl games, due to taking place after the semester ends and weeks after the regular season, are a unique outlier that don't exist in other sports.

If a player wanted to quit four weeks in, that's fine. But I wouldn't  blame the school for rescinding their GIA and charging him.

So it's OK to rescind early on in the season, but not later?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So it's OK to rescind early on in the season, but not later?

As I understand the rule, schools can't rescind after the semester ends. Since most (all?) bowl games are played when schools are not in session, I don't schools have any recourse.

[Jay Bee]

As I understand the rule, schools can't rescind after the semester ends. Since most (all?) bowl games are played when schools are not in session, I don't schools have any recourse.

You're not answering the question (or typing English). I'm asking if you're OK with kids quitting late in the season, or mid-season?

[Lennys Tap]

This has been discussed numerous times on Scoop already. But sure, we can discuss it again.

And you're right ... your example is apples to yoga pants.

If you want apples to apples, compare sitting out one of tonight's college football playoff games to sitting out an NCAA
basketball tournament game

It hasn't happened. It likely won't happen. Because those games all matter, and these athletes want to win championships.

Al McGuire has been deified by some Scoopers for gallantly ordering Chones to quit on a legitimate championship contender so Chones could  take care of himself financially.

What these football players are doing is skipping a glorified exhibition game so they don't ruin their financial future. There is at least one example of a top-50 draft prospect - Michigan's Jake Butt 3 years ago - who chose to play a non-playoff bowl game, got hurt, and it cost him millions and millions of dollars.

That same year, McCaffrey and Fournette skipped their bowl games, and took some heat for it, but they are making big bucks. McCaffrey has gone on to be one of the best players in the NFL.

That's capitalism, baby!

You want to claw back their scholarships? That's actually not all that unreasonable ... but try selling it to future recruits, unless it becomes a national policy (which it won't).

What do their teammates think? Well, all we can go by are the public comments of extreme support for guys like McCaffrey and Fournette. Maybe some resent it, but I have not seen or heard that kind of reaction.

What if guys start to skip 5 or 10 or 20 college games (depending on the sport)? Well, what if? Chones did just that, and his teammates and coaches endorsed it (as do many Scoopers now).

10-15 years into a dentist's career, he or she is just starting to make real money. Most pro athletes don't have careers half (or even a quarter) that long. They have to protect their earning power when they can and maximize it as early as they realistically can.

Have a nice night.

Thanks, Mike, for this oasis of common sense in a desert of  mean spirited insanity. And BTW, I don't address you as "Mike" to be a dick or to "doxx" you. I do it as a sign of familiarity and friendship. Unlike you know who. If you're offended (LOL) just let me know.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You're not answering the question (or typing English). I'm asking if you're OK with kids quitting late in the season, or mid-season?

Yes. If Markus wanted to leave the program tomorrow to prepare on his own for the NBA draft, I wouldn't have a problem with it. He's an adult making what he thinks is the best decision for his future. Really no different than a mid year transfer.

And if it happened mid semester, I wouldn't blame Marquette for rescinding his GIA.

[Cheeks]

Thanks, Mike, for this oasis of common sense in a desert of  mean spirited insanity. And BTW, I don't address you as "Mike" to be a dick or to "doxx" you. I do it as a sign of familiarity and friendship. Unlike you know who. If you're offended (LOL) just let me know.

Namedropper

[Jay Bee]

Yes. If Markus wanted to leave the program tomorrow to prepare on his own for the NBA draft, I wouldn't have a problem with it. He's an adult making what he thinks is the best decision for his future. Really no different than a mid year transfer.

And if it happened mid semester, I wouldn't blame Marquette for rescinding his GIA.

Cool, dude. Let's enter some into done contracts as counterparties. This is goooone b gr8

[MU82]

Where do you - if anywhere - draw the line? What if they care about their financial future so they quit 10 games in? Only bowls are OK, or is it much deeper than that?

It's their right? Sure, anyone can say eff a contract, but there are remedies. Kids in this situation have a huge advantage BC iof the negative press aspect.

If a kid has a great first four weeks, are you supportive and praising of a kid quitting the team?

I guess I draw the line the same place Jim Chones did and Lou Holtz did and Eli Drinkwitz did.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Cool, dude. Let's enter some into done contracts as counterparties. This is goooone b gr8

Uh...who wouldn't be abiding by their contractural obligations if Markus left tomorrow?

[Jay Bee]

Uh...who wouldn't be abiding by their contractural obligations if Markus left tomorrow?

Markus

[Pakuni]

Markus

#fakenews

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Markus

Nope. Second semester hasn't started. No benefit gained by Markus. Therefore no compensation to be paid back.

Interesting how people like to only point out the contractural language when it benefits them, but ignore it when it doesn't.

[Jay Bee]

Nope. Second semester hasn't started. No benefit gained by Markus. Therefore no compensation to be paid back.

Interesting how people like to only point out the contractural language when it benefits them, but ignore it when it doesn't.

He has been given a year long scholarship. It could be cut in half. Stop lying, dipcrap.

[Pakuni]

He has been given a year long scholarship. It could be cut in half. Stop lying, dipcrap.

Please quote the contract language that bars an athlete from choosing to stop playing.

[Cheeks]

Nope. Second semester hasn't started. No benefit gained by Markus. Therefore no compensation to be paid back.

Interesting how people like to only point out the contractural language when it benefits them, but ignore it when it doesn't.

This goes to the question I asked earlier...so you do believe there is a window for a sport that crosses class periods to opt out....it seems you do anyway.

[Jay Bee]

Please quote the contract language that bars an athlete from choosing to stop playing.

Who said "barred"? An SA *can* do a lot of things. The question is whether there is a related remedy.

The NCAA Bylaws provide a remedy for an institution when an SA chooses to stop playing.

It also provides a remedy if an SA is convicted of murder.

[4everwarriors]

Thanks, Mike, for this oasis of common sense in a desert of  mean spirited insanity. And BTW, I don't address you as "Mike" to be a dick or to "doxx" you. I do it as a sign of familiarity and friendship. Unlike you know who. If you're offended (LOL) just let me know.

Lenny Man, he goes bye Nads, hey?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He has been given a year long scholarship. It could be cut in half. Stop lying, dipcrap.

False.  The terms of the contract allow him to leave early with compensation provided to the school if the athlete leaves for personal reasons, or via transfer if they submitted paperwork.  Implicit in the NCAA bylaw is that an athete may leave in between semesters with no compensation provided.

[Jay Bee]

False.  The terms of the contract allow him to leave early with compensation provided to the school if the athlete leaves for personal reasons, or via transfer if they submitted paperwork.  Implicit in the NCAA bylaw is that an athete may leave in between semesters with no compensation provided.

Norby, Markus has a scholarship for the 2019-20 academic year. If he quit the team  tomorrow, the school could drop the scholarship. C'mon bub