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Author Topic: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball  (Read 31136 times)

Cheeks

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"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2019, 11:18:40 AM »
Smart Michigan fans don’t blame sanctions for Brian Ellerbee and Tommy Amaker.

Smart Michigan fans like smart USC fans and others know sanctions make it difficult to recruit, loss of scholarships means no depth or talent at certain positions...regardless of who the coach is.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2019, 11:19:02 AM »
Impact on loss of scholarships to football program...hmm.

Significant

https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-ncaa-sanctions-20140608-story.html

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/news/story?id=5271822

And yet, not a losing season to follow.  I bet USC never cheats again.

Until Andy Enfield gets there
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Uncle Rico

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #78 on: December 15, 2019, 11:19:52 AM »
Smart Michigan fans like smart USC fans and others know sanctions make it difficult to recruit, loss of scholarships means no depth or talent at certain positions...regardless of who the coach is.

Hasn’t hurt Chris Mack.  Didn’t hurt Rick Pitino at Kentucky or Roy Williams at Kansas.  You’re wrong.  Again.
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Cheeks

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #79 on: December 15, 2019, 11:29:21 AM »
You do realize the NCAA, frustrated by the inability to get Shapiro to cooperate but wanting to nail them so bad is what led to the botched investigation, right?

Ask Michigan basketball about the impact of sanctions.

It’s as if these guys here are completely ignoring less players on the team, less depth, no chance for post season, etc has no impact on these coaches to succeed.  Truly remarkable.

If the penalties had no impacts it makes one wonder why the schools complain so much about them...hmm.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #80 on: December 15, 2019, 11:32:02 AM »
Smart Michigan fans like smart USC fans and others know sanctions make it difficult to recruit, loss of scholarships means no depth or talent at certain positions...regardless of who the coach is.

Programs and coaches know that the loss of a few scholarships and even an occasional postseason appearance is a tiny price to pay for the huge revenues and pay hikes produced by winning championships.
So they'll continue to cheat knowing that in the off chance the NCAA actually imposes punishment, it'll be a wrist slap that - as has been proven time and again - will have no significant long-term impact on the cash cow.

No USC fan (or accountant) would trade the Pete Carroll years to avoid sanctions.
No Memphis fan (or accountant) would trade the John Calipari years to avoid sanctions.
No Wisconsin fan (or accountant) would trade the Barry Alvarez years to avoid sanctions.
No Michigan fan (or accountant) would trade the Fab Five years to avoid sanctions.
No Miami fan (or accountant) would trade the Jimmy Johnson or Dennis Erickson years to avoid sanctions.
I could go on, but I hope you get the drift.

Lennys Tap

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #81 on: December 15, 2019, 11:35:14 AM »
Programs and coaches know that the loss of a few scholarships and even an occasional postseason appearance is a tiny price to pay for the huge revenues and pay hikes produced by winning championships.
So they'll continue to cheat knowing that in the off chance the NCAA actually imposes punishment, it'll be a wrist slap that - as has been proven time and again - will have no significant long-term impact on the cash cow.

No USC fan (or accountant) would trade the Pete Carroll years to avoid sanctions.
No Memphis fan (or accountant) would trade the John Calipari years to avoid sanctions.
No Wisconsin fan (or accountant) would trade the Barry Alvarez years to avoid sanctions.
No Michigan fan (or accountant) would trade the Fab Five years to avoid sanctions.
No Miami fan (or accountant) would trade the Jimmy Johnson or Dennis Erickson years to avoid sanctions.
I could go on, but I hope you get the drift.

Truth. It pays to cheat. Period.

Cheeks

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #82 on: December 15, 2019, 11:37:10 AM »
And yet, not a losing season to follow.  I bet USC never cheats again.

Until Andy Enfield gets there

Uhm, I know you are a smart guy.  Your statement can be true and still also show the damage done to the program.

Please tell me you aren’t suggesting being a 12-1 or 11-0 teams then going to 7 or 8 wins is the same.

But yeah, they still had winning records and were able to beat up on FRESNO State, Hawaii, Minnesota, Cal and Washington State among others.

Give me a break.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #83 on: December 15, 2019, 11:39:39 AM »
Hasn’t hurt Chris Mack.  Didn’t hurt Rick Pitino at Kentucky or Roy Williams at Kansas.  You’re wrong.  Again.

Really, despite providing numerous examples where it has hurt programs...I’m wrong. Interesting.  Because SOME schools rebound faster it makes all the other programs that didn’t...moot?  Lol.

Chris Mack lost to the terrible Wojo last year....Brian Wardle wouldn’t even have done that....sanctions hurt poor old Chris Mack or he would have never lost to Wojo.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #84 on: December 15, 2019, 11:41:10 AM »
Truth. It pays to cheat. Period.

Find new teams to cheer for then, because MU isn’t going to do it.  No wonder Buzz left...
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #85 on: December 15, 2019, 11:45:25 AM »
Programs and coaches know that the loss of a few scholarships and even an occasional postseason appearance is a tiny price to pay for the huge revenues and pay hikes produced by winning championships.
So they'll continue to cheat knowing that in the off chance the NCAA actually imposes punishment, it'll be a wrist slap that - as has been proven time and again - will have no significant long-term impact on the cash cow.

No USC fan (or accountant) would trade the Pete Carroll years to avoid sanctions.
No Memphis fan (or accountant) would trade the John Calipari years to avoid sanctions.
No Wisconsin fan (or accountant) would trade the Barry Alvarez years to avoid sanctions.
No Michigan fan (or accountant) would trade the Fab Five years to avoid sanctions.
No Miami fan (or accountant) would trade the Jimmy Johnson or Dennis Erickson years to avoid sanctions.
I could go on, but I hope you get the drift.

When you cannot sustain it, you are wrong.  Your moment of glory for cheating that you tout is a short term benefit undermined by long term hits. 

Look at the financials of these programs after the hits they took...yup, they got that bump and then they didn’t.  And I don’t mean conference revenues where they ride along as a share of each member...I’m talking financials direct from ticket sales, sponsorships, etc.  You excite your fanbase and then they abandon you when the sanctions hit.  For some reason you don’t want to talk about that. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

panda

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #86 on: December 15, 2019, 11:58:18 AM »
Impact on loss of scholarships to football program...hmm.

Significant

https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-ncaa-sanctions-20140608-story.html

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/news/story?id=5271822

The only people loss of scholarships hurt are end of bench and walk on guys. Hypothetically, if MU lost a schollie, a guy like Cam wouldn't be awarded the last scholarship on the team. It's a joke punishment from a joke organization.

Lennys Tap

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #87 on: December 15, 2019, 12:00:18 PM »
Find new teams to cheer for then, because MU isn’t going to do it.  No wonder Buzz left...

You rooted for Kansas while Bill Self cheated. You rooted for Indiana while Tom Crean cheated. Are "other shoes" soon to fall at Virginia Tech? LOL

Cheeks

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #88 on: December 15, 2019, 12:05:22 PM »
The only people loss of scholarships hurt are end of bench and walk on guys. Hypothetically, if MU lost a schollie, a guy like Cam wouldn't be awarded the last scholarship on the team. It's a joke punishment from a joke organization.

You cannot be serious.  A football team has a depth chart and injuries take their toll.  Younger guys are usually playing special teams, getting their feet wet, etc.

When you cut all those scholarships you are also telling the guys you can try to land for the few spots you have that you will be playing on a team that isn’t going to be as good....because you won’t have the depth to stand up the entire season. 

Your comment is ridiculous.  USC has 44 scholarship players going up against teams with 85.  Absolutely ridiculous suggestion on your part...just like your analogy has no bearing on reality.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #89 on: December 15, 2019, 12:13:03 PM »
You rooted for Kansas while Bill Self cheated. You rooted for Indiana while Tom Crean cheated. Are "other shoes" soon to fall at Virginia Tech? LOL

I rooted for IU as Crean cheated?  Did IU have to fire a coach for cheating like MU did under Buzz?  Must have missed that....source please.  Thanks.

I have condemned KU often, especially in light of the allegations leveled against them.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

wadesworld

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #90 on: December 15, 2019, 12:39:31 PM »
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Pakuni

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #91 on: December 15, 2019, 12:59:47 PM »
You cannot be serious.  A football team has a depth chart and injuries take their toll.  Younger guys are usually playing special teams, getting their feet wet, etc.

When you cut all those scholarships you are also telling the guys you can try to land for the few spots you have that you will be playing on a team that isn’t going to be as good....because you won’t have the depth to stand up the entire season. 

Your comment is ridiculous.  USC has 44 scholarship players going up against teams with 85.  Absolutely ridiculous suggestion on your part...just like your analogy has no bearing on reality.

One year after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-2 and finished ranked 6th in the country.
Three years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-4.
Six years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-3, won the Rose Bowl and finished ranked 3rd in the country.
Seven years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 11-3, played in the Cotton Bowl and finished ranked 12th.
Since sanctions, USC's athletic department annual revenue has gone from $76 million to $116 milliom.

Brutal.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #92 on: December 15, 2019, 02:44:03 PM »
Smart Michigan fans don’t blame sanctions for Brian Ellerbee and Tommy Amaker.

Amaker has been successful everywhere else. Why not at Michigan? And they only reason Ellerbee was hired was the sanctions.

The sanctions not only hurt UM but they helped MSU.

Sanctions also buried Indiana for a few years until TC was able to rebuild that program.
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”

Pakuni

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #93 on: December 15, 2019, 02:53:59 PM »
Amaker has been successful everywhere else. Why not at Michigan? And they only reason Ellerbee was hired was the sanctions.

Because success in the Big 10 is harder than the Ivy League?
Amaker's success at Seton Hall = 1 NCAA bid in four seasons, zero winning seasons in the Big East.

Quote
The sanctions not only hurt UM but they helped MSU.

Nah.
The NCAA imposed sanctions on Michigan in May 2003, by which time Izzo had led MSU to one national title, three final fours and an elite eight. State was the better program for 6+ seasons before the sanctions arrived.


The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #94 on: December 15, 2019, 02:56:33 PM »
Amaker wasn’t that bad at Michigan.
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dinger

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #95 on: December 15, 2019, 03:03:04 PM »
Amaker has been successful everywhere else. Why not at Michigan? And they only reason Ellerbee was hired was the sanctions.

The sanctions not only hurt UM but they helped MSU.

Sanctions also buried Indiana for a few years until TC was able to rebuild that program.
You're kidding me. Amaker had only one good year at Seton Hall out of the 4 he was there. Michigan hired him because of his clean roots as a long time Duke assistant and he was totally unprepared for a job at that level. After his middling stint at Michigan it became clear the right level for him is in a conference like the ivy league.
Hey come to think of it this story seems kind of familiar.
Michigan by the way seems pretty undaunted today by the NCAA, hiring a dude intricately connected to the very scandal which they got dinged for.

Uncle Rico

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #96 on: December 15, 2019, 03:12:00 PM »
Amaker has been successful everywhere else. Why not at Michigan? And they only reason Ellerbee was hired was the sanctions.

The sanctions not only hurt UM but they helped MSU.

Sanctions also buried Indiana for a few years until TC was able to rebuild that program.

Ellerbe got fired because Steve Fisher got fired at the beginning of the 97-98 season.  His team won the Big Ten tourney to get into the NCAA Tournament and they gave him the job because of that. 

Tom Izzo was the heir apparent to Jud Heathcote for awhile.  Izzo had been on his staff for years and was considered one of the nation’s best recruiters in the early 90’s.

“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

panda

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #97 on: December 15, 2019, 04:12:41 PM »
One year after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-2 and finished ranked 6th in the country.
Three years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-4.
Six years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-3, won the Rose Bowl and finished ranked 3rd in the country.
Seven years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 11-3, played in the Cotton Bowl and finished ranked 12th.
Since sanctions, USC's athletic department annual revenue has gone from $76 million to $116 milliom.

Brutal.

Thanks Pak. Looks like the NCAA really showed USC!

You have to hand it to the NCAA. They’re very smart business people. While they could levy real penalties against cheaters, they don’t want to ruin the programs who make them the most money. Truly astute business acumen.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #98 on: December 15, 2019, 05:52:32 PM »
Ellerbe got fired because Steve Fisher got fired at the beginning of the 97-98 season.  His team won the Big Ten tourney to get into the NCAA Tournament and they gave him the job because of that. 

Tom Izzo was the heir apparent to Jud Heathcote for awhile.  Izzo had been on his staff for years and was considered one of the nation’s best recruiters in the early 90’s.

And yet Izzo still couldn’t get the top players in the state until the accident exposed what a Fisher had been doing with Ed Martin. Then UM was getting shut out when the sanctions hit. Ellerbee had to deal with the investigation, Amaker with the sanctions that were laid down his second year on the job.

Michigan was the 4 seed in the 1998 BTT, they were getting in anyway. The scandal and sanctions killed recruiting after 1998.

Btw, Minnesota’s program also was decimated for years because of their academic scandal and subsequent sanctions. And look at Washington football, and St. John’s basketball. Ole Miss football. Sanctions work.

Sanctions work.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 05:56:10 PM by Billy Hoyle »
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball
« Reply #99 on: December 15, 2019, 06:01:15 PM »
You're kidding me. Amaker had only one good year at Seton Hall out of the 4 he was there. Michigan hired him because of his clean roots as a long time Duke assistant and he was totally unprepared for a job at that level. After his middling stint at Michigan it became clear the right level for him is in a conference like the ivy league.
Hey come to think of it this story seems kind of familiar.
Michigan by the way seems pretty undaunted today by the NCAA, hiring a dude intricately connected to the very scandal which they got dinged for.

Amaker took over a crap program that George Blaney had run down. He got them to the Sweet 16. He took over at Michigan as the sanctions were handed down.

And Michigan went 11 seasons without a tourney appearance thanks to the sanctions.
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”

 

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