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Author Topic: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...  (Read 3109 times)

muguru

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This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« on: November 20, 2019, 08:11:21 PM »
This is tremendous work by the staff....and perfect job highlighting what they needed to. This is premium info,  but today you know?? I don't really care  8-) I love that kids don't like playing in the Big Ten :)


Some will classify this as negative recruiting, but I do think one thing that the Garcia family never got past, and this is a credit to Marquette, is the Big Ten style of play. I know for a fact Dawson brought up the specific analytics on pace of play and then also how physical the Big Ten is to both Indiana and Minnesota on visits. While Dawson is by no means soft, he is not a bruising 245 pound kid. Marquette was able to show him quantitatively how much faster the Big East is in their play, and then qualitatively with film about how it is more open and less physical.

I think Indiana was able to fight that on the visit, and that helped the Hoosiers big time, but as it got further removed from the Indiana visit, and another visit to Marquette to drive the point home, I just don't think that was something that could be completely overcome.

The relationship piece was big as well, and it kind of gets tied in here. Marquette said it, and he trusts those coaches, and he believed it, and thus I think in the end that make the biggest difference.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

CountryRoads

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 08:29:41 PM »
Thanks for the info, that makes sense. I’m sure Wojo was able to prove that he would give Garcia a lot of freedom on the perimeter like he did with Ellenson as well. I’m sure having Theo John on the roster helped solidify the point that Garcia wouldn’t be the “5”, which is something many kids find unattractive.

jsglow

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 08:39:26 PM »
Thanks for the info, that makes sense. I’m sure Wojo was able to prove that he would give Garcia a lot of freedom on the perimeter like he did with Ellenson as well. I’m sure having Theo John on the roster helped solidify the point that Garcia wouldn’t be the “5”, which is something many kids find unattractive.

Agree that Theo at the #5 has to be a selling point.  Garcia is going to get the opportunity to use his skill set on the perimeter while Theo does what he does best: rim protect, rebound, put in buckets one foot away, etc. 

4everDawson

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 08:45:48 PM »
Agree that Theo at the #5 has to be a selling point.  Garcia is going to get the opportunity to use his skill set on the perimeter while Theo does what he does best: rim protect, rebound, put in buckets one foot away, etc.

...swat away the ball when its passed to him.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Herman Cain

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 09:18:53 PM »
Henry was 1.0
Markus was 2.0
Dawson is 3.0

The sale here was pretty straightforward. Come here and You are the man in a running / high  scoring offense ,  we give you the keys to the car unconditionally,  we have friendly /non douche bag guys on the team and Mom and Dad can easily make all your home games. And oh by the way, there will be NBA staff at many of your games.   

So far  this method has  worked for 1.0 and  2.0 well and no reason it won't work for 3.0

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2019, 07:22:37 AM »
Henry was 1.0
Markus was 2.0
Dawson is 3.0

The sale here was pretty straightforward. Come here and You are the man in a running / high  scoring offense ,  we give you the keys to the car unconditionally,  we have friendly /non douche bag guys on the team and Mom and Dad can easily make all your home games. And oh by the way, there will be NBA staff at many of your games.   

So far  this method has  worked for 1.0 and  2.0 well and no reason it won't work for 3.0

Nice summary.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2019, 08:06:07 AM »
Henry was 1.0
Markus was 2.0
Dawson is 3.0

The sale here was pretty straightforward. Come here and You are the man in a running / high  scoring offense ,  we give you the keys to the car unconditionally,  we have friendly /non douche bag guys on the team and Mom and Dad can easily make all your home games. And oh by the way, there will be NBA staff at many of your games.   

So far  this method has  worked for 1.0 and  2.0 well and no reason it won't work for 3.0

This is all great for Batman but the issue is keeping Robin happy.

Haanif was unhappy as Robin 1.0
Sam was unhappy being Robin 2.0
Will Justin or Osa be ok as Robin 3.0?
“No justice. no peace. No racist police."

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2019, 08:12:22 AM »
Sam has been beat to death, but Haanif was here for a year plus after Henry left.  He had nothing to do with his transfer.  And he wasn't much missed IMO.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Galway Eagle

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2019, 08:16:06 AM »
Sam has been beat to death, but Haanif was here for a year plus after Henry left.  He had nothing to do with his transfer.  And he wasn't much missed IMO.

Agree he's been beaten to death. He was here for a year and a half after? Huh must've got his transfer confused with another. My bad
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Skip Intro

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2019, 08:27:10 AM »
This is all great for Batman but the issue is keeping Robin happy.

Haanif was unhappy as Robin 1.0
Sam was unhappy being Robin 2.0
Will Justin or Osa be ok as Robin 3.0?

I know I'm rehashing what has been said countless times here, but I don't think Sam was unhappy being Robin until Catwoman entered the picture.

Time will tell on any potential chemistry issues - that has to be inevitable when you're getting numerous Top 100 players.  But I do think that Henry was a huge selling point to Dawson - their games are so similar, and Wojo let Henry do his thing well enough to be a one-and-done first round pick.  Archie, Pitino, and Penny didn't have an actual test case like that.

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2019, 09:19:19 AM »
I know I'm rehashing what has been said countless times here, but I don't think Sam was unhappy being Robin until Catwoman entered the picture.

Time will tell on any potential chemistry issues - that has to be inevitable when you're getting numerous Top 100 players.  But I do think that Henry was a huge selling point to Dawson - their games are so similar, and Wojo let Henry do his thing well enough to be a one-and-done first round pick.  Archie, Pitino, and Penny didn't have an actual test case like that.

Ha agreed, I was going to say something similar but that's a much better way to put it
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 09:22:39 AM by Ellenson Family Reunion »

StillWarriors

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2019, 09:21:58 AM »
Sam has been beat to death, but Haanif was here for a year plus after Henry left.  He had nothing to do with his transfer.  And he wasn't much missed IMO.

In addition, Haanif had his best success as the No. 2 to someone who attracted a lot of attention. Sledding got much tougher for him after that and some deficiencies were exposed.

Uncle Rico

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2019, 09:23:49 AM »
Following Haanif after he left Marquette, I think he’s a young man still looking for something and hasn’t found it yet
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Lennys Tap

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2019, 09:32:50 AM »
I don't much care about who's Batman and who's Robin. I do care about team success, though. IMO Wojo let Henry "showcase" himself to the detriment of the team. Had he spent more time in the post and less time on the perimeter missing 3s we would have been a much better team. I confess I don't know a great deal about Dawson's game - but I hope he's prepared to adjust to what the team needs him to do rather than the other way around. Lazar, JFB and Jae played out of position a lot at MU and the NBA somehow found them.

GOO

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2019, 09:43:59 AM »
Will Garcia be able to hit the three at a higher rate than Ellenson? Ellenson was good for the program, and helped to lift up a team with limited talent. He also gave some juice to the fan experience during a down season.  However, his big short coming was shooting the 3 ball.  He looked the part, and could almost hit enough to make taking them justified, but he just couldn't hit enough.  They always looked good, but then hit hit under 30%.   

So, given that Garcia will be taking 3's, and at the new distance, I hope he can hit over 30%. Preferably over about 35%.

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2019, 09:44:14 AM »
I don't much care about who's Batman and who's Robin. I do care about team success, though. IMO Wojo let Henry "showcase" himself to the detriment of the team. Had he spent more time in the post and less time on the perimeter missing 3s we would have been a much better team. I confess I don't know a great deal about Dawson's game - but I hope he's prepared to adjust to what the team needs him to do rather than the other way around. Lazar, JFB and Jae played out of position a lot at MU and the NBA somehow found them.

I think that was totally a play for the future. The team around him was average at best, an odd mix of parts unlikely to make the tournament anyway, and getting a one & done guy through the program early on provided more credibility when targeting high level players like Garcia. In my opinion, with the Garcia commit it paid off. Now we need to turn Garcia et al into some high level on-court success with the much-improved teammates he'll be playing with. That's the next hurdle Wojo needs to clear, then I think recruiting will really take off, which is exciting to think about. Gotta win first though.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 09:46:32 AM by Ellenson Family Reunion »

LAMUfan

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2019, 09:52:14 AM »
I know I'm rehashing what has been said countless times here, but I don't think Sam was unhappy being Robin until Catwoman entered the picture.
Did you just call Joey Catwoman?  lol

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2019, 09:53:56 AM »
Did you just call Joey Catwoman?  lol

Honestly really funny

Galway Eagle

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2019, 09:56:20 AM »
You know Joey still had a fairly successful season and is close enough in size and game to Henry that he may have been used to highlight similarities for Dawson. I hope Dawson's floor is Joey and ceiling is Henry with a serviceable 3pt shot.
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BLM

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2019, 09:58:12 AM »
I don't much care about who's Batman and who's Robin. I do care about team success, though. IMO Wojo let Henry "showcase" himself to the detriment of the team. Had he spent more time in the post and less time on the perimeter missing 3s we would have been a much better team. I confess I don't know a great deal about Dawson's game - but I hope he's prepared to adjust to what the team needs him to do rather than the other way around. Lazar, JFB and Jae played out of position a lot at MU and the NBA somehow found them.

Henry shot 3 three point attempts per game compared to 10 two point attempts per game.  He also averaged 10 rebounds per game, over 2 of them on the offensive end.  He wasn't spending a ton of time on the perimeter missing threes.  The problem was Duane was the only player who averaged over one made 3 pointer per game.  We didn't have any shooters that could stretch the floor and let Henry go to work without the entire defense collapsing on him, especially with him and Luke on the floor together a ton.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2019, 10:04:20 AM »
Henry shot 3 three point attempts per game compared to 10 two point attempts per game.  He also averaged 10 rebounds per game, over 2 of them on the offensive end.  He wasn't spending a ton of time on the perimeter missing threes.  The problem was Duane was the only player who averaged over one made 3 pointer per game.  We didn't have any shooters that could stretch the floor and let Henry go to work without the entire defense collapsing on him, especially with him and Luke on the floor together a ton.


Furthermore he wasn't a center.  He played with Luke Fischer.  He was a prototypical stretch four.  And yeah, that means stretching out to the 3 point line.
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TallTitan34

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2019, 10:09:23 AM »
Did you just call Joey Catwoman?  lol

Are we giving up on the name Vanilla Soft Serve?
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Marcus92

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2019, 10:12:38 AM »
Dawson's game is definitely more skill and finesse than power. But whether he's playing the 5 or not, he will need to gain strength to reach his full potential -- both in the Big East and beyond.

One example: Kevin Durant. He was listed at 6-9/205 coming out of high school. He's now 6-10/240. And those 35 additional pounds are almost all muscle.

The same goes for Ben Simmons. He was listed at 6-8/220 as a high school senior. He's now 6-10/240.

I'm not saying Dawson is going to be a top draft pick. Just that strength is an important part of the game today.
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Marcus92

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2019, 10:23:33 AM »
Furthermore he wasn't a center.  He played with Luke Fischer.  He was a prototypical stretch four.  And yeah, that means stretching out to the 3 point line.

And Henry was a poor perimeter shooter. He connected on just 28.8% of his 3-point attempts at Marquette -- well below the national D1 average of 34.3% in 2015-16.

He has improved somewhat since. He's 47-133 (35.3%) in 76 games over the course of 3 NBA seasons and 65-195 (33.3%) in 33 G-League games. But given that the NBA average was 35.5% last season, Henry's not exactly setting the world on fire with his shooting.
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Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: This was one of the big selling points to Dawson...
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2019, 10:24:29 AM »
I know I'm rehashing what has been said countless times here, but I don't think Sam was unhappy being Robin until Catwoman entered the picture.

Time will tell on any potential chemistry issues - that has to be inevitable when you're getting numerous Top 100 players.  But I do think that Henry was a huge selling point to Dawson - their games are so similar, and Wojo let Henry do his thing well enough to be a one-and-done first round pick.  Archie, Pitino, and Penny didn't have an actual test case like that.

I concur with this but think Batgirl is a better match.



OT Julie Newmar was the finest Catwoman.