Dawson

[wadesworld]

The Bucks shot 3,134 3s last year. Giannis shot 203 of them (2.8 per game). That's 6.5% of the team's 3s

MU shot 571 3s in Henry's year. He shot 104 of them (3.2 per game). That's 18.4% of the team's 3s.

If Henry had shot 6.5% of the team's 3s (like Giannis) he would have shot 37 all season (and other, better shooters would have shot an additional 67).

I think the Bucks had the ratio about right for a poor shooting stretch 4. Ours was almost 3x too high.

So you base how many times a guy should be able to shoot a 3 pointer on how many times his team shoots 3 pointers and not how good he is? Lol!

Henry shot a higher percentage from 3 than Giannis did. If one shooting three 3 pointers per game is an issue, than so is the worse of the 2.

[Lennys Tap]

So you base how many times a guy should be able to shoot a 3 pointer on how many times his team shoots 3 pointers and not how good he is? Lol!

Henry shot a higher percentage from 3 than Giannis did. If one shooting three 3 pointers per game is an issue, than so is the worse of the 2.

How many 3s shot per game is misleading/irrelevant (and you know it) because the Bucks shoot so many more per game than MU did.

Giannis is a "modern basketball" poor shooting stretch 4. All of his teammates who shoot 3s are better at it than he is so they shoot them more frequently than him. This makes sense.

Henry is a "modern basketball" poor shooting stretch 4. All of his teammates who shoot 3s are better at it than he is but he shoots them more frequently than all of them but one. This does not make sense.

[wadesworld]

How many 3s shot per game is misleading/irrelevant (and you know it) because the Bucks shoot so many more per game than MU did.

Giannis is a "modern basketball" poor shooting stretch 4. All of his teammates who shoot 3s are better at it than he is so they shoot them more frequently than him. This makes sense.

Henry is a "modern basketball" poor shooting stretch 4. All of his teammates who shoot 3s are better at it than he is but he shoots them more frequently than all of them but one. This does not make sense.

If you think 3 three point attempts per game is too many I don’t know what to tell you.

[Lennys Tap]

If you think 3 three point attempts per game is too many I don’t know what to tell you.

If you think a plan that has your worst 3 point shooter taking the 2nd most 3 point shots is a good one I don't know what to tell you.

[MuMark]

Dawson shot 43% from 3 last season and over 80% at the line....fwiw

He's a very good shooter but even good shooters can struggle at times  so you.
Never know for sure until he steps in the court next season.

[wadesworld]

If you think a plan that has your worst 3 point shooter taking the 2nd most 3 point shots is a good one I don't know what to tell you.

I think having your best player shoot the ball more than other guys is a good plan.  If that means the best player takes a whopping 3 three point attempts per game, I'm okay with it.

Maybe Luke Fischer should've written a letter to Wojo explaining why it would be good to have more ball distribution on the team so guys like Sandy Cohen and Traci Carter could "jack up" 3 three point attempts per game.

Possibly even turn it into a petition to get the team, minus Hank and maybe Walter, to sign off on the letter before presenting it to Wojo.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Careful, latin got another thread shut down. Penny Hardaway's Quid Pro Quo to pay for a kid to come play for him in high school knowing full well behind the scenes he was also likely to replace Tubby Smith.  But for some reason the Quid Pro Quo comments got a thread shut down because some people panic and don't understand latin apparently.

Yeah, it was Latin that got the thread shut down, not you Chicos.  Yeah.

[Marcus92]

Five players on the roster shot better from beyond the arc than Henry did in 2015-16:

Haanif Cheatham 29-75 (38.7%)
JaJuan Johnson 25-65 (38.5%)
Sandy Cohen 28-80 (35.0%)
Duane Wilson 54-156 (34.6%)
Traci Carter 22-70 (31.4%)
Henry Ellenson 30-104 (28.8%)

There's no reason Henry should have taken the second most three-pointers on that team. Not only was he an poor shooter from outside (the team average was 33.9%) -- he wasn't all that good inside the arc, either. Henry was just just 164-331 (49.5%) on two-point attempts; the team average was 52.4%.

Henry's effective field goal percentage of 48% was 6th best on the team. Just not a very efficient scorer.

[Goose]

I do not care if Dawson shoots from halfcourt as long as he is an impact player. I hope Dawson is 75% of what Henry was during his one year at MU.

[Marcus92]

I think having your best player shoot the ball more than other guys is a good plan. If that means the best player takes a whopping 3 three point attempts per game, I'm okay with it.

If five teammates shot better from 2-point range, and five teammates shot better from 3-point range, I don't see how that makes Henry the best player to take so many shots.

Team's best rebounder? Absolutely. But one of the worst on the team when it came to shot selection and actually producing points.

[Jay Bee]

But one of the worst on the team when it came to shot selection and actually producing points.

Of the guys that played at least 70% of the team's minutes, his ORtg was the best and his usage was significantly higher, fwiw (a lot).

[Marcus92]

Of the guys that played at least 70% of the team's minutes, his ORtg was the best and his usage was significantly higher, fwiw (a lot).

Fair point. Guess that's a sign the team just wasn't all that good.

[wadesworld]

If five teammates shot better from 2-point range, and five teammates shot better from 3-point range, I don't see how that makes Henry the best player to take so many shots.

Team's best rebounder? Absolutely. But one of the worst on the team when it came to shot selection and actually producing points.

Sometimes players on a team are defended differently and get different looks.  If Henry wasn't taking tougher shots than, say, Traci Carter, MU might never put a shot up.  Just because a player shoots a higher percentage than a teammate doesn't mean he's automatically a better shooter or should shoot the ball more.  Otherwise we'd have guys like Matt Heldt getting the most shot attempts on the team, and I, for one, don't find that to be Marquette's best chance of success.  And if Matt Heldt were asked to shoot the ball more than anyone else, I'd be willing to bet his shooting percentages would go down.

[Lennys Tap]

I think having your best player shoot the ball more than other guys is a good plan.  If that means the best player takes a whopping 3 three point attempts per game, I'm okay with it.

Maybe Luke Fischer should've written a letter to Wojo explaining why it would be good to have more ball distribution on the team so guys like Sandy Cohen and Traci Carter could "jack up" 3 three point attempts per game.

Possibly even turn it into a petition to get the team, minus Hank and maybe Walter, to sign off on the letter before presenting it to Wojo.

I think the guys on the floor who are the best at shooting 3 point shots should take more of them than the guys on the floor who are bad at it. The Milwaukee Bucks coach agrees with me.

You think the best player should be the second most frequent 3 point shooter on the floor even if he's bad at it.

Yours is a dumb argument and you know it so you go off on an idiotic tangent/rant. Figures.

[wadesworld]

I think the guys on the floor who are the best at shooting 3 point shots should take more of them than the guys on the floor who are bad at it. The Milwaukee Bucks coach agrees with me.

You think the best player should be the second most frequent 3 point shooter on the floor even if he's bad at it.

Yours is a dumb argument and you know it so you go off on an idiotic tangent/rant. Figures.

See the post right above yours.  You think Matt Heldt should've led the team in shot attempts his junior and senior seasons.  I think that's absurd.  But you do you.

You continue to claim that Giannis 3 three point attempts per game at 26% wasn’t an issue but Henry’s 3 three point attempts per game at 29% was an issue. LOL!

[Lennys Tap]

You continue to claim that Giannis 3 three point attempts per game at 26% wasn’t an issue but Henry’s 3 three point attempts per game at 29% was an issue. LOL!

Last time because I know you're just being stubborn.

1. You lied about how many 3s Henry (3.2, not 3) and Giannis (2.8, not 3) took per game.

2. Even if we accept your made up lies and not the true facts, the raw number of 3s taken per game is totally beside the point because Giannis's team takes more than 2.5x as many 3s as MU did.

3. Here's the point: Two stretch 4s, both of them the worst 3 point shooters on their teams. Player A (Giannis) shoots 6.5% of his team's 3s, Player B (Henry) shoots 16.4% of his team's 3s. Will a team be better served (i.e., be more efficient) by having their worst 3 ball shooter take 6.5% of his team's 3s or 16.4% of his team's 3s? I say the Bucks have it right, your only complaint is Henry didn't shoot more 3s because the best players should shoot the most shots.

I guarantee you Wojo knows that team would have been better with more of inside Henry and less of outside Henry. But Wojo made the deal to showcase Henry's versatility and he stuck to it. Good for Henry, and one could argue maybe good for MU (Dawson?) in the long run. But not good for that team.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Last time because I know you're just being stubborn.

1. You lied about how many 3s Henry (3.2, not 3) and Giannis (2.8, not 3) took per game.

2. Even if we accept your made up lies and not the true facts, the raw number of 3s taken per game is totally beside the point because Giannis's team takes more than 2.5x as many 3s as MU did.

Not to mention than an NBA game is 20% longer than a college one.

[Jay Bee]

Not to mention than an NBA game is 20% longer than a college one.

Y u not look at tempo? Per game stats r 4 StN types

[wadesworld]

Last time because I know you're just being stubborn.

1. You lied about how many 3s Henry (3.2, not 3) and Giannis (2.8, not 3) took per game.

2. Even if we accept your made up lies and not the true facts, the raw number of 3s taken per game is totally beside the point because Giannis's team takes more than 2.5x as many 3s as MU did.

3. Here's the point: Two stretch 4s, both of them the worst 3 point shooters on their teams. Player A (Giannis) shoots 6.5% of his team's 3s, Player B (Henry) shoots 16.4% of his team's 3s. Will a team be better served (i.e., be more efficient) by having their worst 3 ball shooter take 6.5% of his team's 3s or 16.4% of his team's 3s? I say the Bucks have it right, your only complaint is Henry didn't shoot more 3s because the best players should shoot the most shots.

I guarantee you Wojo knows that team would have been better with more of inside Henry and less of outside Henry. But Wojo made the deal to showcase Henry's versatility and he stuck to it. Good for Henry, and one could argue maybe good for MU (Dawson?) in the long run. But not good for that team.

Lol.  Quit lying Lenny.  It's 3.151515151515 continuous three point attempts per game for Henry and 2.81944444 continous for Giannis.  Liar.

Having to go into rounding...when you know you've lost an argument.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.

You talk like there's a finite number of 3 pointers a team gets to take.  Percentage of a team's 3 point attempts a player took?  What?  Lol.  Sorry Lenny.  But if you think 3 three point attempts per game is too many there's not much that can help you.  Especially when it's only too many for the guy who actually shoots them better.  Lol.

Maybe there's a little more nuance to basketball than "Traci Carter made a higher percentage of his 3 point attempts so he should shoot more three pointers!"  But you're smarter than me so it can't be that way.

I can't believe Wojo screwed around for Matt Heldt's 4 years.  One of, if not THE, most efficient offensive players in the country.  HOW IN THE WORLD DOES WOJO NOT RUN THE OFFENSE THROUGH MATT HELDT?!

Sheesh.

[Lennys Tap]

Lol.  Quit lying Lenny.  It's 3.151515151515 continuous three point attempts per game for Henry and 2.81944444 continous for Giannis.  Liar.

Having to go into rounding...when you know you've lost an argument.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.

You talk like there's a finite number of 3 pointers a team gets to take.  Percentage of a team's 3 point attempts a player took?  What?  Lol.  Sorry Lenny.  But if you think 3 three point attempts per game is too many there's not much that can help you.  Especially when it's only too many for the guy who actually shoots them better.  Lol.

Maybe there's a little more nuance to basketball than "Traci Carter made a higher percentage of his 3 point attempts so he should shoot more three pointers!"  But you're smarter than me so it can't be that way.

I can't believe Wojo screwed around for Matt Heldt's 4 years.  One of, if not THE, most efficient offensive players in the country.  HOW IN THE WORLD DOES WOJO NOT RUN THE OFFENSE THROUGH MATT HELDT?!

Sheesh.

Still lying? Check.

Still dishonestly and intentionally drawing obviously false/stupid inferences that have nothing to do with anything I've said? Check.

Still moving the goalposts? Check. Losing the argument, totally busted, typical reaction. Matt Frickin' Heldt has zero, zip, nada to do with this discussion. You know that. But you obfuscate by throwing sh!t at the wall because it's all you have.

People who understand statistics here realize how moronic it is to say that 2.8 out of 40 something is the same as 3.2 out of 19. You don't. I can't help mathematical, statistical stupid. Sorry.

Have a nice Thanksgiving.

[wadesworld]

Still lying? Check.

Still dishonestly and intentionally drawing obviously false/stupid inferences that have nothing to do with anything I've said? Check.

Still moving the goalposts? Check. Losing the argument, totally busted, typical reaction. Matt Frickin' Heldt has zero, zip, nada to do with this discussion. You know that. But you obfuscate by throwing sh!t at the wall because it's all you have.

People who understand statistics here realize how moronic it is to say that 2.8 out of 40 something is the same as 3.2 out of 19. You don't. I can't help mathematical, statistical stupid. Sorry.

Have a nice Thanksgiving.

Lying? Goal post shifting? Where’s that?

Either we’re not rounding and you’re lying or we’re rounding.

2.8 out of 40 something? 3.2 out of 19?

Matt Heldt had our highest shooting percentage the last 2 years. You have a problem with guys who shot higher three point percentages shooting fewer three pointers. So I have to assume you have a problem with Matt Heldt not leading the team in shooting. Why the double standard if not?

[wadesworld]

Not to mention than an NBA game is 20% longer than a college one.

Henry played more minutes per game as a freshman at Marquette than Giannis played for the Bucks last year...

[Cheeks]

Henry played more minutes per game as a freshman at Marquette than Giannis played for the Bucks last year...

Good use of ellipsis...