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Author Topic: Offense  (Read 1737 times)

BCHoopster

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Offense
« on: November 18, 2019, 02:28:17 PM »
I just watched 2 teams get players open all over the place or in Wisconsins case post up players other than there bigs, and Purdue played 2
post players that they ball screen all the time.  In saying other than Theo picking the high post and Markus running around picks that do not
really get him open, not sure why, is there any offense MU runs?  For the bigs to only get 6 or 7 points, I wonder?  Thoughts?

Goose

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Re: Offense
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2019, 02:31:07 PM »
BCHoopster

TAMU will tell you that Wojo is running Duke's offense, but I do not see it. I have been saying it for five plus years that we are not running an offense that gets guys open. It has been little guys shooting three balls, often late in the shot clock. Very frustrating to watch that half court offense.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Offense
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2019, 02:39:42 PM »
BCHoopster

TAMU will tell you that Wojo is running Duke's offense, but I do not see it. I have been saying it for five plus years that we are not running an offense that gets guys open.


Yet they have had one of the best offenses in the country in each of the past three years.

For this year, yes...the interior scoring has been a problem so far.  But Wojo's offense has not been really seen as a problem for the most part.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

willie warrior

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Re: Offense
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2019, 03:14:27 PM »
BCHoopster

TAMU will tell you that Wojo is running Duke's offense, but I do not see it. I have been saying it for five plus years that we are not running an offense that gets guys open. It has been little guys shooting three balls, often late in the shot clock. Very frustrating to watch that half court offense.
Seems silly to run Dukes offense when we have players ranked 50-150 and Duke has players ranked 1-25.

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Offense
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 07:09:14 PM »
I could be wrong on this but weren't we supposed to be a running team under Wojo? Use defense as the catalyst to play up tempo?

tower912

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Re: Offense
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2019, 07:37:24 PM »
To run, you must first collect a defensive rebound or force a live ball turnover.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

4everwarriors

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Re: Offense
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2019, 08:03:07 PM »
Ah yes, da all important deflection stat, aina?
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Eye

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Re: Offense
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2019, 09:29:04 AM »
MU is 4th-to-last in the county in steal percentage, only getting a steal on 4.3 percent of its defensive possessions so far.
GO WARRIORS!

NickelDimer

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Re: Offense
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2019, 03:28:33 PM »
Wojo’s offense is offensive, ay?
G.T.S.T

tower912

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Re: Offense
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2019, 03:33:04 PM »
It has been quite efficient over the years.    New players in new roles, yada yada yada.     Talk to me in January.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

NickelDimer

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Re: Offense
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2019, 03:47:31 PM »
It has been quite efficient over the years.    New players in new roles, yada yada yada.     Talk to me in January.
I agree. He had a poor gameplan and even worse (lack of) adjustments Sunday, but he’s usually had successful offenses even if too one dimensional.

I’m also a lot higher than many (apparently) on our scoring ability. Koby has shown to be very capable, Anim and BB will only get better and we’re already getting contributions from guys like GE and Cain. Add some inside scoring and I think we’ll be fine. I still like the makeup of this team.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 03:50:04 PM by NickelDimer »
G.T.S.T

BCHoopster

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Re: Offense
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2019, 04:54:04 PM »
I agree. He had a poor gameplan and even worse (lack of) adjustments Sunday, but he’s usually had successful offenses even if too one dimensional.

I’m also a lot higher than many (apparently) on our scoring ability. Koby has shown to be very capable, Anim and BB will only get better and we’re already getting contributions from guys like GE and Cain. Add some inside scoring and I think we’ll be fine. I still like the makeup of this team.

One game does not make a season, I think you will know a lot more in 2 weeks after they play 3 games in Orlando.  Hopefully, Bailey will show why
he was ranked 75th in the country that year.  I can not remember a kid as a starter not scoring at least a bucket in 2 games.  Go get a rebound, do something.  Anim played his worst game I had seen from him,  no physicality, no offense.  No nothing.  Again, there maybe some changes moving forward.

skianth16

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Re: Offense
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2019, 12:21:13 PM »
It has been quite efficient over the years.    New players in new roles, yada yada yada.     Talk to me in January.

This is a veteran team with a bunch of guys who all know the offense. I don't think the "new players, new roles" argument holds water this year. The only guys I'd buy this for are Symir and Jayce, who aren't the problem on offense since their minutes have been so limited.

Koby is playing in his first year, but he surely knows the offense well after being with the team all of last year. The same thing goes for Greg. Sure, he wasn't playing last year, but he was in every practice, every film session, etc. That's the whole point of a redshirt year. You get to improve your game by doing all the same things the rest of the team does without losing a year of eligibility. So neither of these guys are really new players.

As far as the roles go, Markus' role has changed from last year, but he's still doing most of the same things he did last year. If anything, his job should be a little easier with the addition of Koby. Jamal, Theo, Ed, Brendan, Sacar are all in the same role they were last year too. We're not really running two big sets, so not much is different for Ed or Theo. And Jamal, Brendan, and Sacar might be seeing more minutes but still playing the same wing position they did last year. They're primarily on the court for defense and not being asked to carry a big offensive load. Really not much of a change for these guys.

It can be hard to lose a safety net kind of guy like Sam, but really, the biggest difference in responsibilities for most of the team this year is just to play more minutes. Just keep doing the same stuff we asked you to do last year but for a few more minutes per game. I really thought we'd be much better offensively to start the year than we have been based on the continuity mentioned above.

tower912

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Re: Offense
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2019, 12:37:22 PM »
Sacar was the 4th/5th option last year.   Now the third.    Bailey didn't show up on a scouting report last year.    Now a starter.    Koby, year off.   Showing what he was expected to do, but still needs to settle in.    Markus just spent an entire season with the ball in his hands, on Sunday people were complaining he was standing around.    Elliot coming back from a year off and two years of injuries.    Cain getting extended run for the first time in a year.    Virtually the only player with the same expectations as last season is Theo, who hasn't done anything yet.   

There is always an adjustment period.    There was under Crean, there was under Buzz, there has been in previous years under Wojo.    Every season is a evolutionary process.     I would say 'patience', but I know better.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Offense
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2019, 12:54:24 PM »
Sacar was the 4th/5th option last year.   Now the third.    Bailey didn't show up on a scouting report last year.    Now a starter.    Koby, year off.   Showing what he was expected to do, but still needs to settle in.    Markus just spent an entire season with the ball in his hands, on Sunday people were complaining he was standing around.    Elliot coming back from a year off and two years of injuries.    Cain getting extended run for the first time in a year.    Virtually the only player with the same expectations as last season is Theo, who hasn't done anything yet.   

There is always an adjustment period.    There was under Crean, there was under Buzz, there has been in previous years under Wojo.    Every season is a evolutionary process.     I would say 'patience', but I know better.

Except play excellent defense, which is what he's out there to do

tower912

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Re: Offense
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 01:36:36 PM »
Agreed.   But the point was 'offense'.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

WarriorFan

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Re: Offense
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2019, 01:44:39 PM »
What I see from so many other D1 teams is:
 - the ability to get a lob / alley-oop 2-3 times per game
 - the ability to get the roll man a clear path to the basket 2-3 times per game
 - Wide open 3 point shots 4-6 times per game

That's 15 points per game MU is leaving "on the table" that other teams are getting.

Don't even get me started on the need for a few more fast-break points.

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Offense
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2019, 01:54:25 PM »
Agreed.   But the point was 'offense'.

Ha the precise title of the thread? my bad

tower912

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Re: Offense
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2019, 02:29:14 PM »
If that is the worst thing to happen today...   ;D      All good.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

skianth16

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Re: Offense
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 03:08:42 PM »
Sacar was the 4th/5th option last year.   Now the third.    Bailey didn't show up on a scouting report last year.    Now a starter.    Koby, year off.   Showing what he was expected to do, but still needs to settle in.    Markus just spent an entire season with the ball in his hands, on Sunday people were complaining he was standing around.    Elliot coming back from a year off and two years of injuries.    Cain getting extended run for the first time in a year.    Virtually the only player with the same expectations as last season is Theo, who hasn't done anything yet.   

There is always an adjustment period.    There was under Crean, there was under Buzz, there has been in previous years under Wojo.    Every season is a evolutionary process.     I would say 'patience', but I know better.

Based on this narrow of a review of roles on the team, there would be no continuity in any basketball program unless all 5 starters come back.  I can't be alone in thinking that some teams should be well positioned to hit the ground running when the season kicks off, right? Generally speaking, I would expect our team to be able to adapt pretty easily to their slightly different roles. Even the guys who didn't play were still practicing with the team and sitting in all the meetings.

And I'm sure guys like Jamal and Brendan would have told you last year that they would want to be getting minutes like they are now. Markus probably would have preferred to play off the ball more. I've got to think that most of the team is being given the opportunity they've been waiting and working for. When should we expect them to be fully ready to take advantage of it?

Based on all the experience with this team, I was thinking we'd have an identity already. I'm not overly concerned that we're struggling to find one just yet. But if we're in the same position after Orlando, I'll be a little worried.

tower912

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Re: Offense
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2019, 03:29:37 PM »
Some teams are and do.  See IU last year.  OTOH, how many times does Izzo get beat in November and not care?   Every year, after an early season loss, Buzz would say he hadn't even installed his offense yet.  This team is not in sync offensively.   I think it will improve, based on history and talent at hand.   I know that won't convince you, so vent away.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

GOO

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Re: Offense
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2019, 03:36:48 PM »
Some teams are and do.  See IU last year.  OTOH, how many times does Izzo get beat in November and not care?   Every year, after an early season loss, Buzz would say he hadn't even installed his offense yet.  This team is not in sync offensively.   I think it will improve, based on history and talent at hand.   I know that won't convince you, so vent away.
+1

It's still so early for conclusions, good or bad, to be drawn. But, But, But, the offense has been bad under Wojo for years, you say.  But the facts don't support that view.

The offense is not really a concern, other than production from Jamal or Bailly.

skianth16

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Re: Offense
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2019, 03:39:19 PM »
Some teams are and do.  See IU last year.  OTOH, how many times does Izzo get beat in November and not care?   Every year, after an early season loss, Buzz would say he hadn't even installed his offense yet.  This team is not in sync offensively.   I think it will improve, based on history and talent at hand.   I know that won't convince you, so vent away.

Must have missed my point about not being too concerned, eh?

My only point was that I disagree with the view that this is a team that should need a lot of time to adjust.

tower912

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Re: Offense
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2019, 04:53:05 PM »
I hoped it wouldn't need time.   Oops.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...