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Author Topic: Boiler breakdown  (Read 4960 times)

jsglow

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #100 on: November 14, 2019, 11:37:42 AM »

But I think a lot of Symir's minutes will be when they play cupcakes.  Wojo rides his guys.  He's done that since he's been here.

No disagreement.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #101 on: November 14, 2019, 11:46:30 AM »
https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/purdue-at-marquette-game-thread.180829/

Purdue Game Thread might be funnier than ours!

Complain about refs when they're blowing someone out. Continue complaining when they're losing. At least they're consistent!  But my favorite:

Quote
Totally. Flopper as well. [Howard] can shoot but I'm not too impressed by him.

TSmith34

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #102 on: November 14, 2019, 11:51:41 AM »
If i'm not mistaken they did walk over to the monitor during the timeout following that play.  It was a quick review.  I thought the refs actually did a fairly decent job, except for the missed Kicked Ball at the top of the key that led to Sacar's great block on the ensuing fastbreak.
If one missed kicked ball is the most significant grievance, I'd say they were in the top 5% of games reffed.  Purdue was extremely aggressive in the 1st half, and the refs let them play to a fair degree, but they also kept control of the game.  Purdue began racking up PFs and I that and fatigue were factors in MU clawing their way back into the game. Kudos to Markus and Koby for dealing with the sustained pressure w/o turning the ball over.
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jsglow

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #103 on: November 14, 2019, 11:52:37 AM »
https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/purdue-at-marquette-game-thread.180829/

Purdue Game Thread might be funnier than ours!

That was really funny.  My 2 favorite posts.

"Theo John..... a$$hole."
"We sure could use a Chicago State game now."

TSmith34

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #104 on: November 14, 2019, 11:55:50 AM »

One thing I notice was that, outside of Markus, the footwork on our outside shots was quite poor.  IMO Purdue was a level above speed wise and it took some time for players to adjust.  Once they did, and they calmed down, the shots started to fall.
To that point, Jamal never squared up to the basket on his 3 point shots.  I may not be recalling it correctly, but I thought his freshman year he did a much better job of getting his feet set properly.

Unless you are a world class shooter like Markus, having your body turned 30 degrees off center isn't going to get you good results.
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TSmith34

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #105 on: November 14, 2019, 12:00:16 PM »
I felt that as soon as MU got a stop and secured a defensive rebound (the true achilles heel in the first half) and then hit a shot on the other end, that it would turn. 
I thought the most important bucket of the night was the 3 Koby hit near the end of the 1st half to keep MU within shouting distance.
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TSmith34

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #106 on: November 14, 2019, 12:01:33 PM »
I stand by my Theo comment.
We saw the sort of athleticism Theo can bring to the PG position with his 2-row chair hurdle.
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TSmith34

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #107 on: November 14, 2019, 12:03:34 PM »
That was really funny.  My 2 favorite posts.

"Theo John..... a$$hole."
"We sure could use a Chicago State game now."
Sure, but what about:
"Markus Howard is gonna remember the night he had to face Nojel Eastern" ?
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MU82

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #108 on: November 14, 2019, 12:04:25 PM »
I thought the most important bucket of the night was the 3 Koby hit near the end of the 1st half to keep MU within shouting distance.

That was huge.

It came right after Sacar got hurt. Sacar was writhing in pain under our defensive hoop when McEwen pulled up on a semi-break and nailed the 3. We had been 1-for-11 from 3 to that point.

I assume the refs didn't notice Sacar because usually they'll call time if the injured player is part of the team that has the ball. I believe MU called time right after Koby's shot went in.

Big play, as was MU not letting Purdue score right before halftime. 13 points, when you've not been able to hit a shot and got killed on the boards ... that's manageable. 
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Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #109 on: November 14, 2019, 12:06:51 PM »
To that point, Jamal never squared up to the basket on his 3 point shots.  I may not be recalling it correctly, but I thought his freshman year he did a much better job of getting his feet set properly.

Unless you are a world class shooter like Markus, having your body turned 30 degrees off center isn't going to get you good results.

Agreed on Jamal horrible footwork,  Bailey tends to have really bad footwork on many of his shots too
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ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #110 on: November 14, 2019, 12:17:44 PM »
Sure, but what about:
"Markus Howard is gonna remember the night he had to face Nojel Eastern" ?

Eastern is not very good. A guy who was pretty good in high school because he was bigger than everyone else who played the same position.

Can't shoot, not particularly athletic, just a 6'6" combo guard who can handle the ball a little and defend the perimeter.

loid walden

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #111 on: November 14, 2019, 12:25:37 PM »
You know, this wasn't that impressive because Purdue folded down the stretch against Texas.

jsglow

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #112 on: November 14, 2019, 12:29:37 PM »
To that point, Jamal never squared up to the basket on his 3 point shots.  I may not be recalling it correctly, but I thought his freshman year he did a much better job of getting his feet set properly.

Unless you are a world class shooter like Markus, having your body turned 30 degrees off center isn't going to get you good results.

Someone said it elsewhere.  I loved what Jamal did in the paint last night.  Grabbed a bunch of boards, played some D, handled the ball confidently, blocked a shot and made some solid mid-range jumpers.  Gimme that Jamal every day and his confidence will grow perhaps leading to some confidence in his 3 ball shot.  He earned every minute last night.  He'll get more.

Warrior Code

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #113 on: November 14, 2019, 12:31:44 PM »
We saw the sort of athleticism Theo can bring to the PG position with his 2-row chair hurdle.

That was honestly pretty good for a guy his size
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skianth16

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #114 on: November 14, 2019, 12:58:55 PM »
Eastern is not very good. A guy who was pretty good in high school because he was bigger than everyone else who played the same position.

Can't shoot, not particularly athletic, just a 6'6" combo guard who can handle the ball a little and defend the perimeter.

I wouldn't write him off yet. We did a good job of keeping him out rhythm and out of the game with foul trouble last night. His game (and numbers) last year remind me a little bit of Sacar in the sense that he can do a little bit of everything for the team. With Edwards leaving a big hole to fill, he's got a good opportunity to take a step forward this year. He may not rise to the occasion, but I won't be surprised if he does.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2019, 01:02:28 PM »
The fact that this thread isn't titled "Out of Haarms way" is a travesty
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tower912

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2019, 01:05:02 PM »
Wojo whitewashes Painter.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2019, 01:05:44 PM »
You know, this wasn't that impressive because Purdue folded down the stretch against Texas.

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TAMU Garcia

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2019, 01:05:53 PM »
My nits to pick for the game:

1. We need guys like Greg, Jamal, and Bailey to find their outside shot. They got a lot of wide open looks last night and went for 0 for everything. With guys like Markus, Koby, and Theo in there, they are going to get a lot of open looks and our offense could be very deadly if they can hit even 33% of those threes. Last night it got to the point where Cain's defender was giving him 5 feet of space and daring him to shoot which clogs the lane for everyone else.

2. I'd like to see us work it into the bigs more. Last night was likely due to the fact that they have 7'3" Johnny Bravo roaming the paint, but more plays designed for the bigs will open up our offense even more and get the bad guys in foul trouble.

2b. Specifically, our guards need to learn how to do the dump off pass to the big off a drive. Haarms was coming over to help every time one of our guys slashed, leaving Theo pratically unguarded next to the hoop. The look isn't always there, but if they can figure it out, Theo could have an easy 4-8 points a game just off plays like that....which leads to the big staying home on Theo which can lead to easier shots for the guards.

3. We benefited a lot from one of the more egregious no calls that I've ever seen. The Greg Elliott and 1 was huge for our momentum....but the ball very clearly bounced off the top of the backboard before Elliott grabbed it. I don't know how the refs missed that. Of course there was bad calls the other way as well, I don't know how they missed the obvious kickball when Sacar got the ball stolen (and then got the chasedown block).

4. I understand letting Markus be Markus, but when he took an early shot clock fade away long 2 with about 1:30 left on the clock that is poor understanding of time and situation. If you have a good shot early in the shot clock, take it. Otherwise, run the clock down. You can get a long fade away 2 at any point. Fortunately, it went in.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 01:19:37 PM by TAMU Eagle »
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Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #119 on: November 14, 2019, 01:21:06 PM »
I wouldn't write him off yet. We did a good job of keeping him out rhythm and out of the game with foul trouble last night. His game (and numbers) last year remind me a little bit of Sacar in the sense that he can do a little bit of everything for the team. With Edwards leaving a big hole to fill, he's got a good opportunity to take a step forward this year. He may not rise to the occasion, but I won't be surprised if he does.

I dont particularly give an F about Purdue,  but Eastern caused MU and particularly Koby a boatload of problems early on defensively.  His foul troubles made it significantly easier to run our offense.  Is Eastern a good bball player? From what ive seen hes a big strong athlete, but kind of a unskilled bull in a china shop.  Good D, zero O
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Its DJOver

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #120 on: November 14, 2019, 01:39:24 PM »
Anyone else see Eastern as a 6-6 Derrick?  Good defender, was a decent role player when surrounded by offensively gifted players, can't/won't shoot three's, hits about half his fts, when the team needs him to step up and take a larger role he kinda shrinks to the occasion.  Looking at the advanced stats he isn't as limited offensively as Derrick was, but that is probably at least partially due to him being 5" taller. 

skianth16

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #121 on: November 14, 2019, 02:41:14 PM »
1. We need guys like Greg, Jamal, and Bailey to find their outside shot. They got a lot of wide open looks last night and went for 0 for everything. With guys like Markus, Koby, and Theo in there, they are going to get a lot of open looks and our offense could be very deadly if they can hit even 33% of those threes. Last night it got to the point where Cain's defender was giving him 5 feet of space and daring him to shoot which clogs the lane for everyone else.

With some of the misses last night, we may not see all these guys become outside shooters. And that should be OK.

Jamal can get to the basket. I see that as a bigger threat on offense than him being able to improve his 3FG%. Brendan has a nice looking shot at times, so maybe he'll get there with some more experience. But if he can use his length to finish at the rim more often, I'd love to see that. I see Greg as the guy I'd like to see as more of a shooter out of this group, but he can be a good asset even if he's only an OK outside threat.

It seems like there's a push to either be a Theo or to be a Novak lately. There's so much middle ground to cover in between, though. And with a lot of college players being great athletes but only OK shooters, I see nothing wrong with guys being slashers more than shooters. It doesn't benefit the team if a guy is forced into a role he's not comfortable in, so we should be able to allow the offense to adapt to that. If these guys have trouble connecting from 3, try to find ways to encourage more drives into the paint.

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #122 on: November 14, 2019, 02:59:21 PM »
With some of the misses last night, we may not see all these guys become outside shooters. And that should be OK.

Jamal can get to the basket. I see that as a bigger threat on offense than him being able to improve his 3FG%. Brendan has a nice looking shot at times, so maybe he'll get there with some more experience. But if he can use his length to finish at the rim more often, I'd love to see that. I see Greg as the guy I'd like to see as more of a shooter out of this group, but he can be a good asset even if he's only an OK outside threat.

It seems like there's a push to either be a Theo or to be a Novak lately. There's so much middle ground to cover in between, though. And with a lot of college players being great athletes but only OK shooters, I see nothing wrong with guys being slashers more than shooters. It doesn't benefit the team if a guy is forced into a role he's not comfortable in, so we should be able to allow the offense to adapt to that. If these guys have trouble connecting from 3, try to find ways to encourage more drives into the paint.

I don't think this disputes anything I said. If as a group the three can make 33% of their long range attempts, our offense will be a lot better.
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BM1090

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #123 on: November 14, 2019, 02:59:53 PM »
My nits to pick for the game:

1. We need guys like Greg, Jamal, and Bailey to find their outside shot. They got a lot of wide open looks last night and went for 0 for everything. With guys like Markus, Koby, and Theo in there, they are going to get a lot of open looks and our offense could be very deadly if they can hit even 33% of those threes. Last night it got to the point where Cain's defender was giving him 5 feet of space and daring him to shoot which clogs the lane for everyone else.

2. I'd like to see us work it into the bigs more. Last night was likely due to the fact that they have 7'3" Johnny Bravo roaming the paint, but more plays designed for the bigs will open up our offense even more and get the bad guys in foul trouble.

2b. Specifically, our guards need to learn how to do the dump off pass to the big off a drive. Haarms was coming over to help every time one of our guys slashed, leaving Theo pratically unguarded next to the hoop. The look isn't always there, but if they can figure it out, Theo could have an easy 4-8 points a game just off plays like that....which leads to the big staying home on Theo which can lead to easier shots for the guards.

3. We benefited a lot from one of the more egregious no calls that I've ever seen. The Greg Elliott and 1 was huge for our momentum....but the ball very clearly bounced off the top of the backboard before Elliott grabbed it. I don't know how the refs missed that. Of course there was bad calls the other way as well, I don't know how they missed the obvious kickball when Sacar got the ball stolen (and then got the chasedown block).

4. I understand letting Markus be Markus, but when he took an early shot clock fade away long 2 with about 1:30 left on the clock that is poor understanding of time and situation. If you have a good shot early in the shot clock, take it. Otherwise, run the clock down. You can get a long fade away 2 at any point. Fortunately, it went in.

I don't think it's out of bounds if it hits the top of the backboard.  I've already seen a few shots go in off the top of the board this year and Joey hit one last year against Xavier. It has to go fully over the top.
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MU82

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Re: Boiler breakdown
« Reply #124 on: November 14, 2019, 03:06:47 PM »
My nits to pick for the game:

1. We need guys like Greg, Jamal, and Bailey to find their outside shot. They got a lot of wide open looks last night and went for 0 for everything. With guys like Markus, Koby, and Theo in there, they are going to get a lot of open looks and our offense could be very deadly if they can hit even 33% of those threes. Last night it got to the point where Cain's defender was giving him 5 feet of space and daring him to shoot which clogs the lane for everyone else.

2. I'd like to see us work it into the bigs more. Last night was likely due to the fact that they have 7'3" Johnny Bravo roaming the paint, but more plays designed for the bigs will open up our offense even more and get the bad guys in foul trouble.

2b. Specifically, our guards need to learn how to do the dump off pass to the big off a drive. Haarms was coming over to help every time one of our guys slashed, leaving Theo pratically unguarded next to the hoop. The look isn't always there, but if they can figure it out, Theo could have an easy 4-8 points a game just off plays like that....which leads to the big staying home on Theo which can lead to easier shots for the guards.

3. We benefited a lot from one of the more egregious no calls that I've ever seen. The Greg Elliott and 1 was huge for our momentum....but the ball very clearly bounced off the top of the backboard before Elliott grabbed it. I don't know how the refs missed that. Of course there was bad calls the other way as well, I don't know how they missed the obvious kickball when Sacar got the ball stolen (and then got the chasedown block).

4. I understand letting Markus be Markus, but when he took an early shot clock fade away long 2 with about 1:30 left on the clock that is poor understanding of time and situation. If you have a good shot early in the shot clock, take it. Otherwise, run the clock down. You can get a long fade away 2 at any point. Fortunately, it went in.

Nice, TAMU. I agree with most of this.

1. Even 30% from those guys would be acceptable. That means some nights, 1 or 2 of them might go for 40-50% (and other nights, like last night, be cold).

2. Yes, more paint touches. Ed travels every time but he rarely gets called and he's shifty down there. Theo not horrible. Plus, it would create kick-out opportunities (though that isn't a strength for either of them). Put us in better rebounding position too. Somebody had a nice pocket pass to Theo, who got fouled; I want to say Elliott? Yes, more of those.

3. Top of the backboard is not out of bounds. Neither are the sides or the bottom. Only out of bounds if it goes up and over the top. Not sure how they missed the kick. I yelled about it in real time.

4. I picked the same nit about Markus on that shot. It was unnecessary. 15 seconds at least left on the clock, and it wasn't a gimme. But lots of ills are overlooked when the ball goes through the hoop.


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