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Author Topic: Brand new season, same old Wojo.  (Read 13833 times)

BM1090

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #150 on: November 17, 2019, 02:23:49 PM »
Bump.

Because I took a lot of heat for this thread at halftime of Purdue.  And because this season sure does look like SOSDD from Wojo and his staff.

Lol
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TAMU Garcia

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #151 on: November 17, 2019, 02:24:30 PM »
Bump.

Because I took a lot of heat for this thread at halftime of Purdue.  And because this season sure does look like SOSDD from Wojo and his staff.

Again, what is the SOSDD you are referring to? Cause you gave examples before and the stats don't support what you are saying.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #152 on: November 17, 2019, 02:35:53 PM »
Again, what is the SOSDD you are referring to? Cause you gave examples before and the stats don't support what you are saying.

TAMU, I have no doubt the stats were correct.  But as we can all see with our own eyes, we continue to have problems with:

1) defensive rotations, usually leaving someone wide open at the 3 point line
2) rebounding
3) on ball defense
4) turnovers
5) lack of offensive flow, especially if Markus is on the bench (or like today when he was just off)
6) lack of adjustments on both ends - today, especially on the offensive end
7) and would it kill us to hit one of our big guys off a screen/pick-n-roll once in a while?

These have all been issues through Wojo's tenure, no matter who the personnel are.

We have gotten better on the defensive end - Rowsey and the Hauser's were never going to be lock down defenders - but there are still big holes that good (and after today, decent) teams can exploit.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 02:39:45 PM by f/k/a humanlung »

goldeneagle91114

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #153 on: November 17, 2019, 02:55:04 PM »
I said it in another thread but, we really missed the Hauser brothers today.

In terms of wojo - sadly he was building for this year. Then he lost control of the locker room and the wheels fell off. This years team now has the make up of a year 2/3 rebuild: one focal point, some other decent transfers, and a few role players. However the team doesn’t have the continuity of a group that has played together for years, which is an important part to have a successful season.

 

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #154 on: November 17, 2019, 02:55:37 PM »
TAMU, I have no doubt the stats were correct.  But as we can all see with our own eyes, we continue to have problems with:

1) defensive rotations, usually leaving someone wide open at the 3 point line
2) rebounding
3) on ball defense
4) turnovers
5) lack of offensive flow, especially if Markus is on the bench (or like today when he was just off)
6) lack of adjustments on both ends - today, especially on the offensive end
7) and would it kill us to hit one of our big guys off a screen/pick-n-roll once in a while?

These have all been issues through Wojo's tenure, no matter who the personnel are.

We have gotten better on the defensive end - Rowsey and the Hauser's were never going to be lock down defenders - but there are still big holes that good (and after today, decent) teams can exploit.

So again, problems that every team has at different points but aren't actually bigger issues for us than the average team?

I was going to give you #7 but then I remembered for the first three years Luke Fischer was one of our top scorers so even that one isn't a "legacy issue" as you put it.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

AirPunch

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #155 on: November 17, 2019, 03:00:29 PM »
I said it in another thread but, we really missed the Hauser brothers today.

In terms of wojo - sadly he was building for this year. Then he lost control of the locker room and the wheels fell off. This years team now has the make up of a year 2/3 rebuild: one focal point, some other decent transfers, and a few role players. However the team doesn’t have the continuity of a group that has played together for years, which is an important part to have a successful season.

 

Unfortunately, I think the 2/3 year rebuild starts next year. This is still supposed to be *the* year.

Also, I’m starting to question the decision of not RSing Torrence. Not really seeing at all where he will be able to get minutes.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 03:02:46 PM by AirPunch »

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #156 on: November 17, 2019, 03:05:33 PM »
So again, problems that every team has at different points but aren't actually bigger issues for us than the average team?

I was going to give you #7 but then I remembered for the first three years Luke Fischer was one of our top scorers so even that one isn't a "legacy issue" as you put it.

TAMU, accurate point with Luke. But last couple years and this year it's almost like it doesn't matter how open the bigs are, they aren't getting the ball. Not sure if that's the system or an inability of the guards to make the pass but it has to change.  If nothing else, involving the bigs even a little will take some focus off the perimeter shooters.

On the other items, the concern is that these are chronic issues that never get corrected.  Not during the season or from season to season.  It's like watching Wayne Fontes coach...

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #157 on: November 17, 2019, 03:08:23 PM »
Unfortunately, I think the 2/3 year rebuild starts next year. This is still supposed to be *the* year.

And it still could be, it's only one loss.  But all the complaints about Wojo were countered with a nod at the team he was building for this season.  It's frustrating.

muhoops1

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #158 on: November 17, 2019, 03:36:05 PM »
I said it in another thread but, we really missed the Hauser brothers today.

In terms of wojo - sadly he was building for this year. Then he lost control of the locker room and the wheels fell off. This years team now has the make up of a year 2/3 rebuild: one focal point, some other decent transfers, and a few role players. However the team doesn’t have the continuity of a group that has played together for years, which is an important part to have a successful season.

 
Which by the way has been the overriding theme of his tenure.  He’s always had an unbalanced, odd roster.  He acquiesced to one player and now he is in this boat.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #159 on: November 17, 2019, 03:37:54 PM »
Unfortunately, I think the 2/3 year rebuild starts next year. This is still supposed to be *the* year.
I have good reason to believe that Wojo will not get 3 years to rebuild.

For the record, I did and still do support the extension he received. 

goldeneagle91114

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #160 on: November 17, 2019, 03:59:32 PM »
I have good reason to believe that Wojo will not get 3 years to rebuild.

For the record, I did and still do support the extension he received.

If he lands Dawson I’d advocate to give him 2 more years. If not, cut losses after the season because next year will for sure be a rebuild

NickelDimer

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #161 on: November 17, 2019, 04:04:18 PM »
If he lands Dawson I’d advocate to give him 2 more years. If not, cut losses after the season because next year will for sure be a rebuild
Yeah if we lose out on Dawson and have another disappointing season I’d advocate moving on
G.T.S.T

TallTitan34

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #162 on: November 18, 2019, 11:05:39 AM »
3/10/11 vs Louisville L 56-81
3/25/11 vs. North Carolina L 63-81
12/29/11 vs Vanderbilt L 57-74
2/4/12 vs. Notre Dame L 59-76
11/29/12 vs. Florida L 49-82
2/3/13 vs. Louisville L 51-70
3/30/13 vs. Syracuse L 39-55

All games in the Buzz Williams era.  All Marquette teams that eventually made the Sweet Sixteen or farther.
Marquette Men's Basketball Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/mualmanac-11-08-2019

Goose

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #163 on: November 18, 2019, 11:13:43 AM »
TallTitan

The level of talent on Buzz's teams is light years ahead of this years squad. Not really what your point is in sharing this info. The program is trending down after treading water for last 4-5 years and throwing out bad Buzz losses seems crazy to me.

JakeBarnes

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #164 on: November 18, 2019, 11:15:41 AM »
Bump.

Because I took a lot of heat for this thread at halftime of Purdue.  And because this season sure does look like SOSDD from Wojo and his staff.

Ah look, it's the guy that cares more about saying "I told you so"
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #165 on: November 18, 2019, 12:05:04 PM »
If he lands Dawson I’d advocate to give him 2 more years. If not, cut losses after the season because next year will for sure be a rebuild

What if he loses out on Dawson but lands Karim Mane and a stretch PF grad transfer along the lines of a Katin Reinhardt? I understand the sentiment but a laser focus on Dawson's decision doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #166 on: November 18, 2019, 12:23:18 PM »
TallTitan

The level of talent on Buzz's teams is light years ahead of this years squad. Not really what your point is in sharing this info. The program is trending down after treading water for last 4-5 years and throwing out bad Buzz losses seems crazy to me.

The point is in real time you were not saying “look at all this NBA talent on the floor and we are still losing?, fire Buzz!”   You have the ability to look back on it now and say there was NBA talent. 

Look I don’t know if Howard or anyone else on our team will sniff the NBA and maybe they won’t.  In fact I agree that we are probably lacking in “NBA talent”.  But don’t pretend like you don’t get the point.  It is a pretty easy point to get.

Having said that I get your point as well.  By mid season if this year is a disaster I will be very much on your side of the argument.

Goose

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #167 on: November 18, 2019, 01:19:54 PM »
Shooter

I, and many folks, knew Buzz had talent on the floor every year. In another post post someone suggested that Joey's ceiling at MS is being another Jamil Wilson and what is the problem with that? Give me a Jamil, a Vander, a Jae, a Jimmy and DJO and I will gladly blow off a horrible performance against a poor team in November.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 01:24:50 PM by Goose »

GOO

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #168 on: November 18, 2019, 01:32:01 PM »
Third game, and conclusions are draw based on one's bias, for or against.
Need more time to see what transpires this year.  I for one remain positive on this team, and that is my bias. But I know the world that my glasses want to see and the light they let in. Helps to keep some perspective. 

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #169 on: November 18, 2019, 01:37:10 PM »
I would be disingenuous if I did not say I was more excited with the talent we had back then than we do now, even in real time.  But was not thinking NBA talent except for Jae.  Loved Jimmy but was not as sure about him being NBA caliber until Senior year.  The rest were just high level NCAA players and that is ok.  They developed well and it led to some really good years.

I’m hoping that some of the guys on our current team develop into high level NCAA players.  I also hope that Wojo can still land an outstanding recruiting class.  If it doesn’t happen this year the writing is on the wall.  Writing that many saw way earlier than me.  Can’t wait forever.     

Goose

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #170 on: November 18, 2019, 01:49:41 PM »
Shooter

I agree that I did not project multiple Buzz guys to make millions in the NBA, but I did know they were high level college basketball players at the time. Many on here are waiting for GE, BB and Cain to make the big jump on the court and I hope so as well. That said, it is doubtful any of those guys are making someone forget Jae, Wilson, DJO, Vander and Co.. Sadly, the truth is that there is more hoping for upside rapid improvement than accomplished basketball player at MU.

willie warrior

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #171 on: November 18, 2019, 03:22:56 PM »
Third game, and conclusions are draw based on one's bias, for or against.
Need more time to see what transpires this year.  I for one remain positive on this team, and that is my bias. But I know the world that my glasses want to see and the light they let in. Helps to keep some perspective.
Yes, more time is needed. After all we have only has 5 plus years, or is it6? Time does fly when you are having fun.

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #172 on: November 18, 2019, 04:07:46 PM »
3/10/11 vs Louisville L 56-81
3/25/11 vs. North Carolina L 63-81
12/29/11 vs Vanderbilt L 57-74
2/4/12 vs. Notre Dame L 59-76
11/29/12 vs. Florida L 49-82
2/3/13 vs. Louisville L 51-70
3/30/13 vs. Syracuse L 39-55

All games in the Buzz Williams era.  All Marquette teams that eventually made the Sweet Sixteen or farther.

2011-2012 teams you mentioned (final records unless i misread something):

Louisville (30-10) - went to Final Four
North Carolina (32-6) - Elite 8
Vandy (25-11) - Sweet 16
Florida (26-11) - Elite 8
Syracuse (34-3) - Elite 8

Are we saying that 2019-2020 Purdue and Wisconsin are in the same caliber of teams as those in the list you posted?  If you aren't, then this comp is not meaningful, imo.

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #173 on: November 18, 2019, 04:10:14 PM »
Ah look, it's the guy that cares more about saying "I told you so"

Yeah.  That's exactly it.  I've been found out.  Damn...

BM1090

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #174 on: November 18, 2019, 05:51:13 PM »
2011-2012 teams you mentioned (final records unless i misread something):

Louisville (30-10) - went to Final Four
North Carolina (32-6) - Elite 8
Vandy (25-11) - Sweet 16
Florida (26-11) - Elite 8
Syracuse (34-3) - Elite 8

Are we saying that 2019-2020 Purdue and Wisconsin are in the same caliber of teams as those in the list you posted?  If you aren't, then this comp is not meaningful, imo.

Vandy lost to Wisconsin in the 2nd round. They haven't made a S16 since 2007. Syracuse game was in the tournament against us to go to the F4. I believe the other ones are accurate.

I'd guess Purdue and Wisconsin are NCAA caliber teams, might win a game. Won't get to the 2nd weekend. Purdue is the wild card because they could improve a lot as the year goes on, but the team we played is probably a top 30 team.
Formerly MUeagle1090

 

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