Malaise

[🏀]

I picked a bad day to stay off the internet apparently.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Here's the differences as I see them.

Wojo took over for a guy that crashed his last year and told anyone that would listen the conference was no good, and I'm ditching this place for Va Tech...for less money.  That doesn't look so hot.  Wojo had to follow that toxic departure.

Crean struck gold with Wade, no two ways about it.  Buzz struck gold by inheriting a massive amount of built-in talent.   Wojo did not get the latter benefit, and has yet to strike a Wade like talent...very few coaches do.

The results haven't been the same, the conditions haven't been either.  Disagree there is zero pressure, that's a gross overstatement.  End of the day, he put the team in the post season three straight years, hasn't had off-court issues, the arena was selling out, we were considered a top team much of the year, we have a great All-American who embodies much of the MU character the school strives to project.  That's going to translate into a lot of decent to good feelings.

I am curious to see how this year goes.  I am optimistic.

For all the Scoop dumpster-fires you've been accused of starting,
this is a home-run post!

[Uncle Rico]

So you ran into the dumbest guy ever to go to Marquette. Unlucky for you.

It's isn't isolated.  When Wojo gets fired or leaves on his own accord, the names that will be tossed around by alum and fans won't match reality. 

[dgies9156]

I think it's understandable. We've been in a slow rebuild and patience wears thin. Then we start winning and winning a lot. On February 26th we were on the verge of being a top 10 team, winning the Big East, and earning a top 3 seed in the NCAA tournament (meaning a very good chance at Wojo's first tourney victory). People started to hope after years of nothing special. Then the wheels came off. Smashed any and all hope in spectacular fashion, culminating in the embarrassment against Murray State.

But the hope smashing wasn't over. We could at least take comfort in most of the roster coming back and every national pundit pegging us as a preseason top 10 team.....until Hausergate. More hope destroyed. Yeah we are still a preseason top 25 team, but that rings a little hollow after starting the offseason as a preseason top 10 team. It's still good...but you can't help and think about what you were before.

Long story short, it will take a lot of winning and finishing a season strong before people start to hope again.

Brother TAMU is wise beyond his years.

The malaise comes from most of us wanting a breakthrough season. Of wanting to be in the talk for a Natty and getting to the point where it's more than talk.

Going into last year, we had the trajectory. We had the focus and we had the team that appeared capable of getting us where most of us oldies wanted to be. Then came the Murray State debacle (my stomach still churns at that one -- it is one of the few times I became so disgusted I turned my TV off in the middle of an MU game). Then Hausershima.

Before Hausershima, we were talked about with the best in college basketball. We had a taste of what could be. Overrated at Number 4? Most certainly! But among the best, well, we had been waiting for that for several years and we finally got there.

I suspect most of us, Scoopers and Laymen,  are playing a waiting game. Do we get excited over a team that limps into fourth place in our conference and is a late add for the NCAA tournament? Well, maybe because We Are Marquette! But do we invest emotion into it? Maybe not. Are we ready for yet another rebuild and a promise of tomorrow that may never come -- HELL NO!

Make Marquette Feared Again!!!!!

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It's isn't isolated.  When Wojo gets fired or leaves on his own accord, the names that will be tossed around by alum and fans won't match reality.

There is some joker that says crazy stuff in any fan base.  Sometimes they have power and influence even.  You are right that it isn't isolated—to marquette. 

[Uncle Rico]

There is some joker that says crazy stuff in any fan base.  Sometimes they have power and influence even.  You are right that it isn't isolated—to marquette.

That is quite true. 

[Uncle Rico]

Here's a question I have for the folks here, would you take Frank Martin's run at South Carolina, one final four since 2012 and only one tourney appearance?

I ask this because a great tournament run bought him time and now three years later, they look like a team headed for another NIT or bust season.  If Wojo has a great tournament run this year, that doesn't portend future success per se

[shoothoops]

Here's a question I have for the folks here, would you take Frank Martin's run at South Carolina, one final four since 2012 and only one tourney appearance?

I ask this because a great tournament run bought him time and now three years later, they look like a team headed for another NIT or bust season.  If Wojo has a great tournament run this year, that doesn't portend future success per se

Apples to oranges.

1) Length of times are different
2) South Carolina had NEVER made it beyond the Sweet 16 in the history of their program. In fact they have NEVER even made the NCAA tourney 10 times in the history of their program. Spoiler alert: Most of their success was in the early 1970's. MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.
3) Hoops budgets and resources are a bit different.
4) And so on...

It isn't rocket science. It isn't personal. It's a business. For fans, it's entertainment. 2 NCAA appearances in 5 seasons losing first round twice by a total of 39 points. Many people reasonably expect more than that. For me personally winning the league is a goal and it was disappointing to be in great position and fade because it is tough to win it.

This is about.....can Wojo go from 2 of 5 make NCAA's to 5 of 5? Can he go from no NCAA wins to many in the next 5 seasons if he is at MU. .....the other goals are big games, rivals be competitive and not lose often, be competitive to win league and league tourney. .....A top 16 program would be a hypothetical Sweet 16 caliber program. I would like to see a top 25 program established year in and year out with a goal of that top 16. It is reasonable and fair. I do not expect deep runs often or all the time. Once in a while, sure, I do not expect league titles annually. I do not expect anything less than the above. If Wojo can do it, great, if not, find someone that can. It's a big money business, these people make good money and understand the expectations. It's pretty simple and straight forward for me.

[Galway Eagle]

MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.

We've made it 34 times just accepted 33

[Uncle Rico]

Apples to oranges.

1) Length of times are different
2) South Carolina had NEVER made it beyond the Sweet 16 in the history of their program. In fact they have NEVER even made the NCAA tourney 10 times in the history of their program. Spoiler alert: Most of their success was in the early 1970's. MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.
3) Hoops budgets and resources are a bit different.
4) And so on...

It isn't rocket science. It isn't personal. It's a business. For fans, it's entertainment. 2 NCAA appearances in 5 seasons losing first round twice by a total of 39 points. Many people reasonably expect more than that. For me personally winning the league is a goal and it was disappointing to be in great position and fade because it is tough to win it.

This is about.....can Wojo go from 2 of 5 make NCAA's to 5 of 5? Can he go from no NCAA wins to many in the next 5 seasons if he is at MU. .....the other goals are big games, rivals be competitive and not lose often, be competitive to win league and league tourney. .....A top 16 program would be a hypothetical Sweet 16 caliber program. I would like to see a top 25 program established year in and year out with a goal of that top 16. It is reasonable and fair. I do not expect deep runs often or all the time. Once in a while, sure, I do not expect league titles annually. I do not expect anything less than the above. If Wojo can do it, great, if not, find someone that can. It's a big money business, these people make good money and understand the expectations. It's pretty simple and straight forward for me.

Those are fair expectations.  Marquette has made the Sweet 16 5 times since 1977, twice when their seeding suggested they were underdogs (1994 as a 6-seed and as an 11-seed in 2011).

[The Sultan]

People need to stop bringing up the basketball budget when they talk about Marquette.  It's inflated for many reasons and the figure relative to other schools are not apples to apples.

Yes, Marquette devotes a great deal to basketball.  But it isn't an extraordinary amount compared to most Power 6 schools.  So the low ROI implications that many are making aren't really accurate.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I'm very excited about Marquette basketball. 

It is Scoop for which I have malaise.

[wadesworld]

It's isn't isolated.  When Wojo gets fired or leaves on his own accord, the names that will be tossed around by alum and fans won't match reality.

We already had one person with a list that started and ended with Tony Bennett, Kelvin Sampson, and Chris Beard, and at least one meat eating summit man agreed with the poster.

We'd end up with someone that has, at best, a similar resume to Brian Wardle, who the meat eating summit men laugh at the thought of.

[tower912]

Wardle or another assistant.   Maybe that assistant is Stan.

[Dish]

Topper said it best...win a couple tournament games, that'll cure a lot of ills.

The game at Creighton last year, the Buffalo/Wisconsin games last year, those fun and great moments seemed all for nothing as the season went up in flames. The buy in to this upcoming season is tough based on how last year ended.

[The Sultan]

Topper said it best...win a couple tournament games, that'll cure a lot of ills.

The game at Creighton last year, the Buffalo/Wisconsin games last year, those fun and great moments seemed all for nothing as the season went up in flames. The buy in to this upcoming season is tough based on how last year ended.

Yeah, I don't fall in the same boat as you do here.  I don't forget the bright spots of a season just because it ended poorly.  That would be too frustrating for me as a fan. 

[shoothoops]

Topper said it best...win a couple tournament games, that'll cure a lot of ills.

The game at Creighton last year, the Buffalo/Wisconsin games last year, those fun and great moments seemed all for nothing as the season went up in flames. The buy in to this upcoming season is tough based on how last year ended.

Finishing 2nd in the league, the specific mentioned wins, etc...not a season up in flames.

What they need is to play better late in the season/post-season. We can talk about matchups and injuries, etc but part of the deal is winning late no matter those things. Gotta be able to mix it in sometimes over time. Conf tourney was a little better and close missed opportunity there. Need to continue to be more competitive in that and in NCAA's. The season has a lot of components. Not playing well late has been an issue. And it will be an issue until it improves. There were a lot of good things too and they still count. We'll see if MU can turn the corner a bit this season.

[jesmu84]

Apples to oranges.

1) Length of times are different
2) South Carolina had NEVER made it beyond the Sweet 16 in the history of their program. In fact they have NEVER even made the NCAA tourney 10 times in the history of their program. Spoiler alert: Most of their success was in the early 1970's. MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.
3) Hoops budgets and resources are a bit different.
4) And so on...

It isn't rocket science. It isn't personal. It's a business. For fans, it's entertainment. 2 NCAA appearances in 5 seasons losing first round twice by a total of 39 points. Many people reasonably expect more than that. For me personally winning the league is a goal and it was disappointing to be in great position and fade because it is tough to win it.

This is about.....can Wojo go from 2 of 5 make NCAA's to 5 of 5? Can he go from no NCAA wins to many in the next 5 seasons if he is at MU. .....the other goals are big games, rivals be competitive and not lose often, be competitive to win league and league tourney. .....A top 16 program would be a hypothetical Sweet 16 caliber program. I would like to see a top 25 program established year in and year out with a goal of that top 16. It is reasonable and fair. I do not expect deep runs often or all the time. Once in a while, sure, I do not expect league titles annually. I do not expect anything less than the above. If Wojo can do it, great, if not, find someone that can. It's a big money business, these people make good money and understand the expectations. It's pretty simple and straight forward for me.

Who do you believe would be realistic candidates for the job if wojo were to leave/get fired?

[Dish]

Yeah, I don't fall in the same boat as you do here.  I don't forget the bright spots of a season just because it ended poorly.  That would be too frustrating for me as a fan.

For me, those moments were great in the moment, but were the slow burn towards March. Win a couple games in March last year, and those moments stand out much more, and highlight a hell of a season.

I respect the difference of opinion though, I think ultimately we just want as much success for MU as possible.

[Cheeks]

Apples to oranges.

1) Length of times are different
2) South Carolina had NEVER made it beyond the Sweet 16 in the history of their program. In fact they have NEVER even made the NCAA tourney 10 times in the history of their program. Spoiler alert: Most of their success was in the early 1970's. MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.


This is about.....can Wojo go from 2 of 5 make NCAA's to 5 of 5? Can he go from no NCAA wins to many in the next 5 seasons if he is at MU. .....the other goals are big games, rivals be competitive and not lose often, be competitive to win league and league tourney. .....A top 16 program would be a hypothetical Sweet 16 caliber program. I would like to see a top 25 program established year in and year out with a goal of that top 16. It is reasonable and fair. I do not expect deep runs often or all the time. Once in a while, sure, I do not expect league titles annually. I do not expect anything less than the above. If Wojo can do it, great, if not, find someone that can. It's a big money business, these people make good money and understand the expectations. It's pretty simple and straight forward for me.

Army has also won a bunch of football games, so has Fordham.

2 of 5 is accurate....also accurate to say 2 of 3.  If we lost both games by one point we would be 0-2 in the NCAAs...also accurate.


The budget thing, Sultan said it well, but I would add that we spend what we do to OVERCOME some of the inherent disadvantages we have as a non football, small, private, northern school.  Just to be where we are, we have to spend what we do.

[muwarrior69]

was it a "political" statement or just a response to changing societal attitudes and requests from the Native American community (especially those the Jesuits worked with in South Dakota that made the request)? I feel like some of those hanging on to the nickname issue, 26 years later, just use it as a convenient excuse not to support MU, especially financially. They weren't going to give or come to games in the first place, now they have their excuse. It's kind of like people who boycott certain businesses because of a political decision.  For example, the right-wing crowd that vowed to boycott Nordstrom for no longer carrying Ivanka Trump merchandise or left-wingers who boycott restaurants like Chik-Fil-A or Jimmy John's for their stances or actions. You weren't going to shop/eat there anyway.

If it was a response to changing attitudes then why did the University not allow Warriors to be a choice when they asked students and alumni to vote for a nick name? You may not agree, but to me that was a political decision because they new how that vote would have gone. If the vote were to happen today things might be different, but we both know that is not going to happen.

[Litehouse]

I'd be curious how people would feel had it been Markus who transferred out and the belief was it was the Hausers that made him leave.  My hunch is, some opinions would be different

I'd feel about the same.  In an age of one-and-done, transfers, and short lived college careers, we had 3 years of watching Sam and Markus develop together.  It's not often you get to watch 2 players that good play together that long in college.  Everything was building to a fantastic senior year and then it fell apart. I'm still looking forward to the season, but it's still a bit of a let down knowing we could have had something really special. 

I understand why it didn't work out, it's just a shame it didn't.  I suppose it's a little like Lennon and McCartney.  They're both fine on their own, but I'd be more excited about the Beatles.  I guess that makes Joey Yoko Ono.

[Lennys Tap]

Topper said it best...win a couple tournament games, that'll cure a lot of ills.

The game at Creighton last year, the Buffalo/Wisconsin games last year, those fun and great moments seemed all for nothing as the season went up in flames. The buy in to this upcoming season is tough based on how last year ended.

This is where I stand. I was basically "all in" on Wojo through mid February. I thought he and the program had turned a corner. Then came a total collapse on the court followed by one off the court. Some say the season ended "poorly". I think that's an understatement of epic proportion.

So I'm in the "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" camp. After falling for the fool's gold last year I'll be more wary this year. I think Wojo has earned that.

[Lennys Tap]

If it was a response to changing attitudes then why did the University not allow Warriors to be a choice when they asked students and alumni to vote for a nick name? You may not agree, but to me that was a political decision because they new how that vote would have gone. If the vote were to happen today things might be different, but we both know that is not going to happen.

This is the "Jesuit way": 1.They make their decision 2. They run a rigged PR scam that tries to make the alumni feel as if their input is important. 3. They announce their decision.

[muwarrior69]

Good post, 69. Maybe drawing too fine of a line, but I think it was political correctness run amok rather than politics.

Warriors, with an Indian mascot, has no place in modern society. We don't need team names that reflect race. Warriors, in a generic sense though, is 100% appropriate.

I don't want this thread turn into another battle over the name, though.

Neither do I. That battle is over, but when the University denied students and alumni the choice of warriors when asked to vote on a new nick name, to me that was political and not just PC.