Grammar fun

[MU82]

Hoopaloop and I went back and forth in the NFL thread about, among other things, the use of an ellipsis. I apologize for my role in gooping up that thread.

So anyhoo, let's talk about the ellipsis, because it is a pretty unique thing in grammar.

This hoopy silliness was part of it our discussion:

It’s funny how many people do not understand what the meaning or usage of an ellipsis is

Panthers better off without Cam.....

Truly amazing.  English was taught in journalism school, yes?  LOL

Well, for journalists, AP style was - and still is - taught.

Here is what is in the AP Stylebook:

ellipsis ( ... ) In general, treat an ellipsis as a three-letter word, constructed with three periods and two spaces, as shown here.

Use an ellipsis to indicate the deletion of one or more words in condensing quotes, texts and documents. Be especially careful to avoid deletions that would distort the meaning.

An ellipsis also may be used to indicate a thought that the speaker or writer does not complete. Substitute a dash for this purpose, however, if the context uses ellipses to indicate that words actually spoken or written have been deleted.

Brief examples of how to use ellipses are provided after guidelines are given. More extensive examples, drawn from the speech in which President Richard Nixon announced his resignation, are in the sections below marked CONDENSATION EXAMPLE and QUOTATIONS.

SPACING REQUIREMENTS: In some computer editing systems the thin space must be used between the periods of the ellipsis to prevent them from being placed on two different lines when they are sent through a computer that handles hyphenation and justification.

Leave one regular space – never a thin – on both sides of an ellipsis: I ... tried to do what was best.

PUNCTUATION GUIDELINES: If the words that precede an ellipsis constitute a grammatically complete sentence, either in the original or in the condensation, place a period at the end of the last word before the ellipsis. Follow it with a regular space and an ellipsis: I no longer have a strong enough political base. ...

When the grammatical sense calls for a question mark, exclamation point, comma or colon, the sequence is word, punctuation mark, regular space, ellipsis: Will you come? ...
When material is deleted at the end of one paragraph and at the beginning of the one that follows, place an ellipsis in both locations.

CONDENSATION EXAMPLE: Here is an example of how the spacing and punctuation guidelines would be applied in condensing President Richard Nixon's resignation announcement:

Good evening. ...

In all the decisions I have made in my public life, I have always tried to do what was best for the nation. ...

... However, it has become evident to me that I no longer have a strong enough political base in Congress.

... As long as there was a base, I felt strongly that it was necessary to see the constitutional process through to its conclusion, that to do otherwise would be ... a dangerously destabilizing precedent for the future.

QUOTATIONS: In writing a story, do not use ellipses at the beginning and end of direct quotes:
"It has become evident to me that I no longer have a strong enough political base," Nixon said.
Not "... it has become evident to me that I no longer have a strong enough political base ... ," Nixon said.

SPECIAL EFFECTS: Ellipses also may be used to separate individual items within a paragraph of show business gossip or similar material. Use periods after items that are complete sentences.


So, not only did hoopaloop use more than 3 periods for his ellipsis, and not only did he fail to use a period before his ellipsis, but he violated the important rule reading: Be especially careful to avoid deletions that would distort the meaning.

Since it was nowhere near obvious that Panthers better without Cam.... was implying ... if he's not healthy, it was a poor - even if not technically incorrect - use of the ellipsis.

And although hoopy found a site saying that 4 dots is fine, under AP rules, which are followed by pretty much all journalists, most businesses, and really most people with knowledge, that also was a poor - even if not technically incorrect - use of the ellipsis.

Finally, his mocking of "a journalist" (me, although I'm actually a former journalist but current personal finance writer) not knowing the rules for an ellipsis ... well, that was just incorrect. Period. I knew the exact rule and I applied it correctly.

[#UnleashSean]

[MU82]

An exclamation point and a question mark together? Horrors!

Maybe some care. Maybe nobody does. Those that don't can very easily ignore it. Didn't want it gumming up other threads. Changed title to welcome those who might be interested in more grammar than ellipses.

[#UnleashSean]

Maybe some care. Maybe nobody does. Those that don't can very easily ignore it. Didn't want it gumming up other threads. Changed title to welcome those who might be interested in more grammar than ellipses.

I agree with this don't get me wrong. But there has never been a more perfect meme. I had to take the shot.

[mu_hilltopper]

Any .. thread .. on ellipses .. and their use .. must have .. the master .. none other than .. John Dodds.

[4everwarriors]

Gramma know matta, aina?

[lawdog77]

Insert Nelly video here.

[tower912]

Any .. thread .. on ellipses .. and their use .. must have .. the master .. none other than .. John Dodds.

Or..

Vikingsarelosers/burger.....

[Cheeks]

This whole thread is pure gold...

My favorite part was what journalists were taught...I’m old enough to remember when two sources were required and taught...or how opinions and bias were verboten...my how things change.

[Pakuni]

This whole thread is pure gold...

My favorite part was what journalists were taught...I’m old enough to remember when two sources were required and taught...or how opinions and bias were verboten...my how things change.

Cheeks:Journalism::JayBee:Crystal Ball.

And by that I mean, you're a broken record..

[Cheeks]

Cheeks:Journalism::JayBee:Crystal Ball.

And by that I mean, you're a broken record..

Your ellipsis is missing a dot or two, depending on how you wish to proceed.

As for journalism, I weep for what it has become, a profession held in high esteem long so and utterly gutted to what is now one of the lowest respected entities in the country.  That is sad.  Hopefully it can become great again some day, trusted.  What is the approval number currently....40%? 

[forgetful]

Your ellipsis is missing a dot or two, depending on how you wish to proceed.

Pretty sure he is using the double colon there as an operator.

[Jay Bee]

Finally, his mocking of "a journalist" (me, although I'm actually a former journalist but currentl personal finance writer)

wat

[MU82]

wat

I spelled a word wrong. It has been corrected.

[MU82]

Your ellipsis is missing a dot or two, depending on how you wish to proceed.

As for journalism, I weep for what it has become, a profession held in high esteem long so and utterly gutted to what is now one of the lowest respected entities in the country.  That is sad.  Hopefully it can become great again some day, trusted.  What is the approval number currently....40%?

Thank goodness for the great journalists today. If only you did your job as well as they do.

And BTW, you seem really angry here, hoopy. Must be the continued inability to correctly use ellipses.

[Cheeks]

Pretty sure he is using the double colon there as an operator.

Pretty sure I was referencing his second sentence

“And by that I mean, you're a broken record..”

[Cheeks]

Thank goodness for the great journalists today. If only you did your job as well as they do.

And BTW, you seem really angry here, hoopy. Must be the continued inability to correctly use ellipses.

Angry?  More like laughing you started this thread...only one other person in America would do something that HUGE...and he is currently occupied on the east coast...congratulations. 

[MU82]

Angry?  More like laughing you started this thread...only one other person in America would do something that HUGE...and he is currently occupied on the east coast...congratulations.

Congratulations to you, hoopy, for not being smart enough to realize that my entire OP was in invisible teal. Others did.

Nice political reference, though. And also nice pretending you didn't vote for him and don't love him now. He completes you, baby.

[#UnleashSean]

 At least now these idiots are contained to a thread no one gives a crap about.

[Cheeks]

Congratulations to you, hoopy, for not being smart enough to realize that my entire OP was in invisible teal. Others did.

Nice political reference, though. And also nice pretending you didn't vote for him and don't love him now. He completes you, baby.

I voted for third party candidate as I have done more than 4 times in my life....including photographic proof....I vote absentee....But you know everything, you keep telling us so...wouldn’t it just be fun to prove you wrong again.  LOL.  Keep the lying up, it fits you like a glove.

[MU82]

At least now these idiots are contained to a thread no one gives a crap about.

Somebody gets it. Thanks.

And that's Mr. Idiot to you, pal.

As for journalism, I weep for what it has become, a profession held in high esteem long so and utterly gutted to what is now one of the lowest respected entities in the country.

This journalist has not only been a great baseball beat writer in St. Louis for years, but he literally is a hero.

https://awfulannouncing.com/mlb/post-dispatch-beat-writer-derrick-gould-performed-cpr-on-videographer-who-suffered-heart-attack-at-busch-stadium.html?fbclid=IwAR2MBQqznJOtnFsxMzuVxersp0OHxpNZ65GXxD6v8nTtZhY9yZaYobFB0_c

[Cheeks]

Somebody gets it. Thanks.

And that's Mr. Idiot to you, pal.

This journalist has not only been a great baseball beat writer in St. Louis for years, but he literally is a hero.

https://awfulannouncing.com/mlb/post-dispatch-beat-writer-derrick-gould-performed-cpr-on-videographer-who-suffered-heart-attack-at-busch-stadium.html?fbclid=IwAR2MBQqznJOtnFsxMzuVxersp0OHxpNZ65GXxD6v8nTtZhY9yZaYobFB0_c

There are some great ones still, just in short supply.  Too many about being the news, rather than reporting it now.  They need to be a brand.  But yes, there are still some great ones and some are even heroes, just like all walks of life.  It’s a shame so many people no longer hold in high esteem, but when you erode the trust so much that is what happens.

The incident last week where the Iowa State fan donated over $1 million to children’s hospital after appearing on Game Day with a sign ask g for beer money only to have a journalist out there needing to take this guy down....reported the man at age 16 posted lyrics from a rap song that were racist.  That was apparently important and needed to be reported.  The man apologized for what he had done at age 16....I repeat...what he had done as a 16year old boy.  Iowans shredded the media, the journalist and the editor for the disgusting approach that was taken.  Those are the types of non-heroic actions taken that people are fed up with and why the trust level is so bad.  It is a shame.  Cancel culture....what a wonderful society we are building.

[jesmu84]

There are some great ones still, just in short supply.  Too many about being the news, rather than reporting it now.  They need to be a brand.  But yes, there are still some great ones and some are even heroes, just like all walks of life.  It’s a shame so many people no longer hold in high esteem, but when you erode the trust so much that is what happens.

The incident last week where the Iowa State fan donated over $1 million to children’s hospital after appearing on Game Day with a sign ask g for beer money only to have a journalist out there needing to take this guy down....reported the man at age 16 posted lyrics from a rap song that were racist.  That was apparently important and needed to be reported.  The man apologized for what he had done at age 16....I repeat...what he had done as a 16year old boy.  Iowans shredded the media, the journalist and the editor for the disgusting approach that was taken.  Those are the types of non-heroic actions taken that people are fed up with and why the trust level is so bad.  It is a shame.  Cancel culture....what a wonderful society we are building.

Sounds like police currently

[Cheeks]

Sounds like police currently

Police are held in much higher esteem than the media.  NY Times article just last week.  Not even close


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/us/trust-congress-military-police.html

[Pakuni]

Pretty sure I was referencing his second sentence

“And by that I mean, you're a broken record..”

Ohs noes, I hit the period button on my phone twice!

[Cheeks]

Ohs noes, I hit the period button on my phone twice!

Just having fun with you, the fact this insane topic was brought up by MU82 around ellipses and you made that boner, well it was kind of funny.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Let’s start an urban dictionary thread.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Let’s start an urban dictionary thread.

Can it begin with "What's a chico's?"

[MU82]

There are some great ones still, just in short supply.  Too many about being the news, rather than reporting it now.  They need to be a brand.  But yes, there are still some great ones and some are even heroes, just like all walks of life.  It’s a shame so many people no longer hold in high esteem, but when you erode the trust so much that is what happens.

There are some bad ones still, just in short supply. It’s a shame so many people have been whipped into a frenzy against the free press by a dishonest charlatan and his easily conned sheeple, but when you erode rule of law for a treasonous con man that is what happens.