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Date/Time: Oct 29, 2019 - 7:00pm
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Schedule for 2019-20
24-10

Poll

What does MU need to accomplish this year for you to get/stay on the WojoWagon?

Nothing. My support for Wojo is unshakable.
9 (3.8%)
Any post-season.
7 (3%)
The Dance
68 (29.1%)
A NCAA Win
92 (39.3%)
2nd Weekend
48 (20.5%)
Only a banner redeems Wojo.
2 (0.9%)
Nothing. Every moment he's at the helm is like being stabbed in the heart with 1000 fiery knives.
8 (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 234

Author Topic: Wojo's Threshold  (Read 8323 times)

Goose

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #150 on: October 09, 2019, 09:02:43 AM »
Dr. B

When I say "not landing guys I would recruit" is misleading. I hope in the future we are in the mix with the high level of talent that is currently in MKE. There are three big time recruits locally and we are not even able to get a visit from any these guys. I think that Wojo has a great chance of a big time recruiting class this year and hope it is a spring board to be able to recruit even higher rated players.

It was not meant as a jab, simply I hope this is a starting point. Why wouldn't all of us hope we could land a top ten kid down the road? I am hopeful that recruiting this year is start of big things ahead. Again, if he can these guys I am much more optimistic about the future.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #151 on: October 09, 2019, 09:15:37 AM »
I disagree with the local recruiting concept even wthMKE's recent jump in talent I think in order to become a national program again we have to think bigger and recruit nationally.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Goose

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #152 on: October 09, 2019, 09:18:21 AM »
Galway

I meant that level of player, can be locally or anywhere else on the planet. That said, we should never completely whiff on big time local kids, especially if no baggage associated with them

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #153 on: October 09, 2019, 09:25:51 AM »
Dr. B

When I say "not landing guys I would recruit" is misleading. I hope in the future we are in the mix with the high level of talent that is currently in MKE. There are three big time recruits locally and we are not even able to get a visit from any these guys. I think that Wojo has a great chance of a big time recruiting class this year and hope it is a spring board to be able to recruit even higher rated players.

It was not meant as a jab, simply I hope this is a starting point. Why wouldn't all of us hope we could land a top ten kid down the road? I am hopeful that recruiting this year is start of big things ahead. Again, if he can these guys I am much more optimistic about the future.

So if he inks Garcia and Davis with the rest, you are fine? It’s not that you are being critical, it’s that I can’t figure out what would make you happy? It appears it shifts...maybe if you name names that would help me/us understand.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #154 on: October 09, 2019, 09:34:07 AM »
Galway

I meant that level of player, can be locally or anywhere else on the planet. That said, we should never completely whiff on big time local kids, especially if no baggage associated with them

I understand better what you were getting at now. I don't think there should be any priority on a big local guy if it ends up trying to fit a square peg in a round hole (whether that's personality, position, or whatever). I understand and respect the mentality of "that's our territory we gotta protect it" though.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Goose

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #155 on: October 09, 2019, 09:44:46 AM »
Dr. B

If he adds Garcia and Davis I would be a very happy Warrior fan. As I have said several times, I would rather see a foundation for long term success be established with this recruiting class. Then, hopefully he is able to recruit even higher rated, or similar rated, with a higher degree of success.

Marcus92

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #156 on: October 09, 2019, 09:45:30 AM »
That said, it's clear that Wojo wants to define "our territory" as bigger than just Milwaukee and Wisconsin. He's heavily recruited other Midwestern states -- including Minnesota, Michigan and Illinois -- and gotten his share of commitments.
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Goose

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #157 on: October 09, 2019, 09:47:32 AM »
Marcus

Great programs recruit nationally and Wojo is doing that. In addition, great programs normally land local studs, or at least are in the mix.

jesmu84

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #158 on: October 09, 2019, 12:02:38 PM »
Dr. B

If he adds Garcia and Davis I would be a very happy Warrior fan. As I have said several times, I would rather see a foundation for long term success be established with this recruiting class. Then, hopefully he is able to recruit even higher rated, or similar rated, with a higher degree of success.

I absolutely want the scenario you are describing.

However, for reality and expectation sake, how many coaches at MU in the last 40 years have put together not only a class equivalent to Davis/Garcia/osa/Lewis, but went on to put together successive and higher ranked classes?

I think you're talking about perhaps wojo being the greatest recruiter (based on high school rankings) in MU history.

That's lofty.

We'd all be onboard, of course. But it's a bit of a stretch for that to be the bar.

Silent Verbal

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #159 on: October 09, 2019, 12:10:48 PM »
I absolutely want the scenario you are describing.

However, for reality and expectation sake, how many coaches at MU in the last 40 years have put together not only a class equivalent to Davis/Garcia/osa/Lewis, but went on to put together successive and higher ranked classes?

I think you're talking about perhaps wojo being the greatest recruiter (based on high school rankings) in MU history.

That's lofty.

We'd all be onboard, of course. But it's a bit of a stretch for that to be the bar.

How many coaches at MU in the last 40 years won zero NCAA Tournament games in their first 5 seasons?  So far, Wojo’s recruited at the level expected of an MU coach, but hasn’t matched the on-court expectations.  He needs a home run recruiting class to get the growing population of skeptics back on his side.  Landing one of Davis or Garcia would help immensely with that.

TedBaxter

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #160 on: October 09, 2019, 12:36:41 PM »
Wojo lost 3 of the 4 recruits when Buzz left and has still averaged 21 wins since that first year with 2 NCAA appearances in the 5 years with his initial season being the 13-19 year.  It wasn't like he inherited a ton of players when he arrived.

Maybe I've been following this stuff for too long and don't understand how easy it is for Marquette to rebuild.  Some here act like he's done an absolute terrible job and I guess I don't see it. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 12:38:16 PM by TedBaxter »
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Pakuni

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #161 on: October 09, 2019, 12:43:35 PM »
How many coaches at MU in the last 40 years won zero NCAA Tournament games in their first 5 seasons?  So far, Wojo’s recruited at the level expected of an MU coach, but hasn’t matched the on-court expectations.  He needs a home run recruiting class to get the growing population of skeptics back on his side.  Landing one of Davis or Garcia would help immensely with that.

The lack of NCAA wins is a disappointment and certainly a blemish on Wojo's tenure so far.
It's also a single data point that same people like to harp incessantly upon because Wojo isn't Buzz.

cheebs09

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #162 on: October 09, 2019, 01:03:46 PM »
Wojo lost 3 of the 4 recruits when Buzz left and has still averaged 21 wins since that first year with 2 NCAA appearances in the 5 years with his initial season being the 13-19 year.  It wasn't like he inherited a ton of players when he arrived.

Maybe I've been following this stuff for too long and don't understand how easy it is for Marquette to rebuild.  Some here act like he's done an absolute terrible job and I guess I don't see it.

My worry at least has been that for Wojo, the payoff for the slower rebuild was Markus’ junior and senior year. That’s when our talent would be experienced and from there we keep the momentum moving.

The first benchmark year ended with a thud. It was off to a great start but injuries and possibly team chemistry sent it off course. The latter I blame on coaching.

Now, the team we all waited for doesn’t look like why we expected. I’m hoping for a successful year and a run in the tourney. If Wojo pulls in Davis and Garcia, the future looks bright. If we flame out at the end of the year and those two go elsewhere, the future looks like more of the same.

I think this is a big year. My worry is do we have to wait for an anchor class to gain experience to do anything in the tourney and constantly be up and down? Or will Wojo keep recruiting at a high level and have some balance so we can be a consistent tourney team with some threats at deep runs every few years.

I think the angst is around the past 5 years all that we can expect going forward, or are there brighter days ahead.

muguru

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #163 on: October 09, 2019, 02:12:24 PM »
I absolutely want the scenario you are describing.

However, for reality and expectation sake, how many coaches at MU in the last 40 years have put together not only a class equivalent to Davis/Garcia/osa/Lewis, but went on to put together successive and higher ranked classes?

I think you're talking about perhaps wojo being the greatest recruiter (based on high school rankings) in MU history.

That's lofty.

We'd all be onboard, of course. But it's a bit of a stretch for that to be the bar.

I don't think it's that lofty...after all, he came to MU with a reputation as one of the best recruiters in the country.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #164 on: October 09, 2019, 02:36:44 PM »
Wojo lost 3 of the 4 recruits when Buzz left and has still averaged 21 wins since that first year with 2 NCAA appearances in the 5 years with his initial season being the 13-19 year.  It wasn't like he inherited a ton of players when he arrived.

Maybe I've been following this stuff for too long and don't understand how easy it is for Marquette to rebuild.  Some here act like he's done an absolute terrible job and I guess I don't see it.

It's all spin.

We have averaged above .500 in conference and 21 wins the past 4 years we've been consistently beaten high major teams and picked up top 100 recruits.

Vs

We've seen tons of our most talented recruits leave for the Pros or transfer before they matriculate for us. We've looked lost in NCAA tournament games and when we were all set to qualify for a bid in the NIT year we peed down our leg against Depaul causing us to miss the big tournament.

Version A he's getting a good grade, version B he's getting a bad grade. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #165 on: October 09, 2019, 02:44:33 PM »
Version A he's getting a good grade, version B he's getting a bad grade. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle

That is why I just look at KenPom.  It says the history isn't up to the objectives I have been told Marquette sets...the future is judgement - which reasonable people can differ on. 

shoothoops

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #166 on: October 09, 2019, 03:01:50 PM »
It's all spin.

We have averaged above .500 in conference and 21 wins the past 4 years we've been consistently beaten high major teams and picked up top 100 recruits.

Vs

We've seen tons of our most talented recruits leave for the Pros or transfer before they matriculate for us. We've looked lost in NCAA tournament games and when we were all set to qualify for a bid in the NIT year we peed down our leg against Depaul causing us to miss the big tournament.

Version A he's getting a good grade, version B he's getting a bad grade. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle

Right, wrong, or indifferent, Buzz won 8 NCAA games (2 sweet 16’s an elite 8, etc) in his first 5 seasons at Marquette. Prior to that Crean took Marquette to a Final Four during his 9 seasons. (His 4th season)

That has been the most recent history prior to Wojo.

Higher levels of NCAA success in less amount of time. 

On paper this year could be a 2nd weekend MU team. (I do have my Free throw and jump shooting concerns)

Getting to the 2nd weekend this season will quiet down the critics a bit along with returning players, recruiting classes, etc...with the expectation that he can sustain it year in and year out long term. MU devotes more resources and $ than many for its men’s hoops program.

So, this is part of what you are seeing and experiencing from some others. They care about NCAA results (among other results) and that is what they want to see as opposed to counting number of wins per season.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 03:21:16 PM by shoothoops »

bilsu

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #167 on: October 09, 2019, 03:13:15 PM »
I keep wondering how much better each of your lives would of been the last few months, if we had beaten Murray St.


shoothoops

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #168 on: October 09, 2019, 03:23:43 PM »
I keep wondering how much better each of your lives would of been the last few months, if we had beaten Murray St.

I think for those people, it’s the repeated inability to make it to the 2nd weekend one time, or make NCAA’s 1-2 more times or win one game multiple times in that span, something, vs a goose egg. So as the years progress, the topic grows louder and venters vent.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #169 on: October 09, 2019, 03:26:17 PM »
I keep wondering how much better each of your lives would of been the last few months, if we had beaten Murray St.

I know I'd have a house paid off, a wife, kids, and my dreams job. So I blame Wojo for all that.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

jesmu84

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #170 on: October 09, 2019, 03:29:27 PM »
How many coaches at MU in the last 40 years won zero NCAA Tournament games in their first 5 seasons?  So far, Wojo’s recruited at the level expected of an MU coach, but hasn’t matched the on-court expectations.  He needs a home run recruiting class to get the growing population of skeptics back on his side.  Landing one of Davis or Garcia would help immensely with that.

Ya.

But that has absolutely zero to do with what I was talking about and the post that I was responding to.

swoopem

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #171 on: October 09, 2019, 03:30:53 PM »
I keep wondering how much better each of your lives would of been the last few months, if we had beaten Murray St.

I was talking to a friend yesterday about what if we hadn’t gotten screwed and beat Seton Hall. The way I see it, we would’ve gone on a run: Big East title, second weekend, the hauser’s wouldn’t have transferred cuz winning cures all, and we’d be researching flights to Atlanta.

Ahh seashells and balloons
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Silent Verbal

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #172 on: October 09, 2019, 04:32:13 PM »
Ya.

But that has absolutely zero to do with what I was talking about and the post that I was responding to.

You asked how many MU coaches in the last 40 years were able to reel in a landmark recruiting class and sustain that success on the recruiting trail.  I’d say Crean did it with the Three Amigos.  That class set the stage for the best 10 year run we’ve since Al, in recruiting and on the court.  It even helped bridge the gap between coaches.  Buzz was able to do it, too.  Say what you will about his last year here, but his final class (JJJ, Burton, Duane) was very highly ranked, and he had Hill and Shayok coming in.  IIRC, even Cohen was top 100.  Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but it looked great on paper.  So right there we have two examples of guys who parlayed good recruiting classes into sustained success.

I don’t think it’s too lofty to expect even more from Wojo on the recruiting trail now that he’s been here for five years.  After all, we’re on an upward trajectory, right? 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 04:40:34 PM by Silent Verbal »

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #173 on: October 09, 2019, 05:10:22 PM »
My worry at least has been that for Wojo, the payoff for the slower rebuild was Markus’ junior and senior year. That’s when our talent would be experienced and from there we keep the momentum moving.

The first benchmark year ended with a thud. It was off to a great start but injuries and possibly team chemistry sent it off course. The latter I blame on coaching.

Now, the team we all waited for doesn’t look like why we expected.

Right.  Any complaints during Wojo's year 4 regression to the NIT were met with how great Year 5 and 6 were gonna be.  Locker room imploded instead, and now predictions are that we'll be worse than last year.

People say this is a big year for Wojo, but I don't think so.  We'll probably make the tourney, maybe even win a game, but this won't be the contender that was discussed.  Then our two best players will leave and we'll enter Year 7 after a whole offseason of the same arguments.

#UnleashCain

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Re: Wojo's Threshold
« Reply #174 on: October 09, 2019, 05:17:07 PM »
Wojo lost 3 of the 4 recruits when Buzz left and has still averaged 21 wins since that first year with 2 NCAA appearances in the 5 years with his initial season being the 13-19 year.  It wasn't like he inherited a ton of players when he arrived.

Maybe I've been following this stuff for too long and don't understand how easy it is for Marquette to rebuild.  Some here act like he's done an absolute terrible job and I guess I don't see it.

A lot of the concern comes from player retention.

Wojo by the end of this year will have seen 3 players play 4 years for him. He's lost the mass majority of every recruiting class he has had (regardless of the reasons)

We're not talking about players who lacked talent, mu has been losing very good talent year after year. That is a huge concern.