Should we get rid of cash?

[muwarrior69]

They tried it in India.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/09/24/763510020/what-happens-when-a-country-suddenly-gets-rid-of-most-of-its-cash

I hardly use cash myself, but I'm not so sure we should get rid of cash. Even here in the states not everyone uses a credit card. I know some stores/businesses want to go cashless. Not sure if that is even legal if a business can refuse cash for a product or service.

[#UnleashSean]

Id like to see a study based on a country with a bit more infrastructure then India

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I was there when this happened.  One thing not referenced in the article is how high a percentage of India's transactions are done in cash -- including home purchases & business transactions -- many times to avoid use taxes.  The goal of this was to get those transactions back into the economy and bring the hoarded cash of the wealthy individuals back into the banking and taxation system. 

Said a different way those who don't need to deal in cash do.  They tried to squeeze them by canceling the bills and forcing them to deposit it in the bank and declare/pay tax.  They still found a way to avoid that outcome.  Those at the lower end suffered because of it.

[tower912]

My wife keeps getting rid of mine.

[Jockey]

One more way for governments and other entities to have a longer paper trail on everyone.

Cambridge Analytica had an average of 5000 data points on each person in its database as it influenced American and British elections.

Furthermore, these additional data points are necessary for the development of AI. With many thousands of bits of info, Corps. will be able to know what you are going to do before you even think of doing it.

[Pakuni]

But then how will people pay their undocumented nannies and landscapers?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

When I was in Malmo, Sweden last year we went to a restaurant that had sign posted "Cashless Restaurant".

[jesmu84]

All cash? No

The penny and nickel (and possibly dime)? Yes. Those literally cost us more to manufacture, distribute and count than they're worth.

[CTWarrior]

All cash? No

The penny and nickel (and possibly dime)? Yes. Those literally cost us more to manufacture, distribute and count than they're worth.

+1
The only reason to have pennies is to help keep you from getting more.  Last I heard it cost 1.8 cents to make a penny and something like 8 cents to make a nickel.  A quarter now has the same purchasing power as a penny did in 1916.  If we could get along with nothing smaller than a penny then, we should be able to get along with a quarter as the smallest coin now.  I'd say start with elimination of pennies and nickels and then go from there.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Make the dollar a coin as well.

[Jockey]

Make the dollar a coin as well.

I love sarcasm!!!

[JWags85]

I was there when this happened.  One thing not referenced in the article is how high a percentage of India's transactions are done in cash -- including home purchases & business transactions -- many times to avoid use taxes.  The goal of this was to get those transactions back into the economy and bring the hoarded cash of the wealthy individuals back into the banking and taxation system. 

Said a different way those who don't need to deal in cash do.  They tried to squeeze them by canceling the bills and forcing them to deposit it in the bank and declare/pay tax.  They still found a way to avoid that outcome.  Those at the lower end suffered because of it.

Agreed, it had nothing to do with moving to a cashless society, it was explicitly an anti-corruption maneuver to curb illicit tax free spending and back office off the books maneuvering.  I know multiple clients I have there who regularly made payments to us and other customers over $10,000 USD in cash.  It was the taxi barter on steroids.  $12 fare?  Offer $10 or use your CC, usually the cash is chosen.  There?  Hem and haw about making a $2500 payment overdue on a $7000 balance?  Happily pay the entire balance on the spot in cash.

Agree with Unleash, Id prefer to not take cues from India on monetary issues.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Make the dollar a coin as well.

The "tooth fairy" gives the kids a gold Sacagawea dollar coin for each tooth.  Last time i went to the credit union, they had to look around for a roll. And half of these were Susan B's.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The "tooth fairy" gives the kids a gold Sacagawea dollar coin for each tooth.  Last time i went to the credit union, they had to look around for a roll. And half of these were Susan B's.

That’s cause they didn’t drop the paper bill. They did in Europe and their one Euro coin works fine.

[warriorchick]

When I was in Malmo, Sweden last year we went to a restaurant that had sign posted "Cashless Restaurant".

Epic Burger in Chicago tried that a couple of years ago. It didn't last very long, as I recall.

[JWags85]

Epic Burger in Chicago tried that a couple of years ago. It didn't last very long, as I recall.

There are a number of chains that do it now.  By Chloe is a popular vegetarian chain that is cashless.  All depends on the clientele.

[Hards Alumni]

Epic Burger in Chicago tried that a couple of years ago. It didn't last very long, as I recall.

There are a ton in NYC.  It won't go away.  They even list their reasoning for going cashless.

Also, you don't have to worry about paper trails with cryptos.

[RJax55]

There are a number of chains that do it now.  By Chloe is a popular vegetarian chain that is cashless.  All depends on the clientele.

Agree. There's a Roti in my office building, it is cashless. Always busy.

[muwarrior69]

There are a number of chains that do it now.  By Chloe is a popular vegetarian chain that is cashless.  All depends on the clientele.

So do you pay before you get your veggies or after? If after and they refuse your cash can you just walk out? Cash is legal tender, they refused, so how are you liable?

[Hards Alumni]

So do you pay before you get your veggies or after? If after and they refuse your cash can you just walk out? Cash is legal tender, they refused, so how are you liable?

not how that works

[Dr. Blackheart]

Something like 60% of the US paper is held outside of the US. 

Also, how will Bill Self now pay for his recruits?

[JWags85]

So do you pay before you get your veggies or after? If after and they refuse your cash can you just walk out? Cash is legal tender, they refused, so how are you liable?

You order at the counter, and if you offer cash, they say “I’m sorry, we don’t accept cash”.

Same way at Roti. No different than if you try to pay with Diners Club somewhere that doesn’t accept it

[forgetful]

Just a heads up. If anyone wants to get rid of all their cash, they can send it my way.

[MUMonster03]

Several Scandinavian countries have wanted to go "cashless" but the problem has been that the elderly and homeless would then have limited/no access to money.

[MU82]

I can't remember the last time I used cash -- it's been at least a month.

I used to feel silly if I went into the grocery store to buy a couple pieces of fruit for the next day's breakfast and used my credit card for the $1.58. But now it feels normal.

[Cheeks]

I still use cash a lot, it is accepted just about everywhere.  What do we do fo people that don’t have means to qualify for a credit card?  Or the penalties that come with them.  If you lose a card, can take several days to get replacement. 

Massachusetts and Pennsylvania have laws requiring cash must be an option.

[MU82]

For the record (not that it matters), I am absolutely against eliminating cash and applaud states that have laws requiring that cash be an option.

Lots of people cannot get credit cards.

I was just stating that I, personally, hardly ever carry cash. Just about the only time I use it is for our friendly monthly poker get-togethers.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I still use cash a lot, it is accepted just about everywhere.  What do we do fo people that don’t have means to qualify for a credit card?  Or the penalties that come with them.  If you lose a card, can take several days to get replacement. 

Massachusetts and Pennsylvania have laws requiring cash must be an option.

I use cash too. First, it’s safer from electronic fraud than a debit card. Two, it is more appreciated in service or the trades to pay cash—wait staff, a tradesman who give discounts for cash, hair cut. Third, and this is especially true in Europe but in the US, restaurants want to be paid in cash and will charge extra for credit cards. Points 2 and 3 are usually grey market related to avoid taxes.

Lastly, what happens to the vices when they stop taking cash? Office MM or Fantasy Football pools? I guess that could migrate to PayPal and Vegas to all electronic. Some of this may be good because of the bad vices, but there can be unintended negative consequences as a new bartering system evolves (which already is with the Opioid Economy). “Brother can you spare a dime” turns into ”hand over your cell phone” or barters paid in human slavery.

More so, physical cash reserves on hand is the backbone of the US banking system and Federal Reserve system.

[jesmu84]

I use cash too. First, it’s safer from electronic fraud than a debit card. Two, it is more appreciated in service or the trades to pay cash—wait staff, a tradesman who give discounts for cash, hair cut. Third, and this is especially true in Europe but in the US, restaurants want to be paid in cash and will charge extra for credit cards. Points 2 and 3 are usually grey market related to avoid taxes.

Lastly, what happens to the vices when they stop taking cash? Office MM or Fantasy Football pools? I guess that could migrate to PayPal and Vegas to all electronic. Some of this may be good because of the bad vices, but there can be unintended negative consequences as a new bartering system evolves (which already is with the Opioid Economy). “Brother can you spare a dime” turns into ”hand over your cell phone” or barters paid in human slavery.

More so, physical cash reserves on hand is the backbone of the US banking system and Federal Reserve system.

1. I can't think of a single restaurant that ever has told me my bill is cheaper if I pay by cash.

2. Every pool or fantasy league I've been in for the last 3-4 years is run through PayPal/venmo

[Billy Hoyle]

if we get rid of cash what will cocaine users use to sniff their nose candy?

https://academic.oup.com/jat/article/20/4/213/838490

[StillAWarrior]

if we get rid of cash what will cocaine users use to sniff their nose candy?

https://academic.oup.com/jat/article/20/4/213/838490

Plastic straws...no, wait...

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Plastic straws...no, wait...

LOL

Anyway, we aren't going to become a cashless society anytime soon. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

1. I can't think of a single restaurant that ever has told me my bill is cheaper if I pay by cash.

2. Every pool or fantasy league I've been in for the last 3-4 years is run through PayPal/venmo

It is common, especially outside the US, for credit card companies to add on surcharges to your meal bills. In the US, this takes the form of "we only take cash--no credit or debit cards. Many reasons for this (exchange rates, VAT avoidance, income tax, credit card company surcharges on a penny profit business).

On gambling, many folks don't want an electronic trail for illegal or against company policy betting, let alone the IRS.

[warriorchick]

In the U.S., you can't add a surcharge for using a credit card.  I am not sure if that's the law, or part of the Merchant Agreement every bank uses with businesses that accept their card.

I don't think it's enforced that strictly, but once I was in charge of a large group theater outing where I collected money from everyone for the tickets and put it in the bank. When I went to the box office, I was told there was a $2 per ticket fee for paying with plastic.  I didn't have enough cash, so I paid the fee and called the credit card company the next day.  They immediately credited those fees to my statement, and my guess is that the theater got a chargeback and a nastygram from the card company.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You can't add a surcharge for using plastic, but you can discount for using cash.  Pretty much the same thing I know.

[MU82]

A fairly significant number of gas stations charge less for cash than they do for credit.

Because the credit card I use (Costco Visa) gives a 4% rebate for gas purchases, it's STILL cheaper to use the credit card if I desperately need the fuel and I'm where only pay-more-for-credit stations are. Usually, though, I can avoid those stations.

[JWags85]

In the U.S., you can't add a surcharge for using a credit card.  I am not sure if that's the law, or part of the Merchant Agreement every bank uses with businesses that accept their card.

Unless you're a government agency of course.  Then you can slap on processing fees for credit card payments with impunity.

And while I agree with the thought that we are nowhere near becoming a full cashless society, the options are not cash or credit card.  Mobile phone payments, debit cards, etc.. give plenty of options for those that "dont have access" to a credit card.  I sent a pair of employees on a trip abroad recently, and neither of them had a CC.  But both had debit cards and iPhones.   They ended up exchanging currency and taking an emergency company card.

[Pakuni]

Unless you're a government agency of course.  Then you can slap on processing fees for credit card payments with impunity.

That's OK with me. Credit card companies charge transaction fees. I'd rather the card user pick up that fee than the taxpayers.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

With no cash, how ya gonna pay the dancing nekid girls?

[WI inferiority Complexes]

My dispensary (I believe, all of them) only accepts cash.

[warriorchick]

My dispensary (I believe, all of them) only accepts cash.

That's because the marijuana industry in general is basically a cash only business.  Banks won't deal with them; unless things have changed in the last year or so, most of them can't even open a checking account in their company's name.

[Billy Hoyle]

That's because the marijuana industry in general is basically a cash only business.  Banks won't deal with them; unless things have changed in the last year or so, most of them can't even open a checking account in their company's name.

Federally chartered banks do not but some start chartered banks will. My go to dispensary does accept cards (with a surcharge), but I'd rather us cash.

[MUBurrow]

That's because the marijuana industry in general is basically a cash only business.  Banks won't deal with them; unless things have changed in the last year or so, most of them can't even open a checking account in their company's name.

Among the insane things about the patchwork regulatory environment that current applies to the marijuana industry, this is probably the most unbelievable to me. I understand how we got here and why banks don't want to take any risks with this - but we should really have a safe haven for banks to deal with these folks. Its not good to have an industry that sees that much business forced to operate exclusively in cash.

[#UnleashSean]

I
Lastly, what happens to the vices when they stop taking cash? Office MM or Fantasy Football pools? I guess that could migrate to PayPal

This isn't already a thing?

[jesmu84]

Unless you're a government agency of course.  Then you can slap on processing fees for credit card payments with impunity.

And while I agree with the thought that we are nowhere near becoming a full cashless society, the options are not cash or credit card.  Mobile phone payments, debit cards, etc.. give plenty of options for those that "dont have access" to a credit card.  I sent a pair of employees on a trip abroad recently, and neither of them had a CC.  But both had debit cards and iPhones.   They ended up exchanging currency and taking an emergency company card.

This has become a big thing with me and my social group in the last year plus. We convinced our local bar to get setup for payments by phone. The convenience and security is awesome. I actually get a little annoyed when somewhere doesn't have the option.

I know international credit cards were way ahead of the curve with paying by chip. Is it big internationally to have phone payment?

[WarriorFan]

I live in Russia and the payment systems here are so far ahead of the USA in terms of security and convenience that it's amazing.  I go everywhere with just my phone.  I pay US bills with Venmo or Zelle.  In Russia I use apple pay for everything.  The Babushka who sells fruit in front of my apartment building has a payment machine and I pay with apple pay.  Horrible road-side rest stops 1000km from the nearest city that don't even have indoor toilets allow you to pay for your blini with apple pay.  Every restaurant takes apple pay.  They even do a separate charge for tips using apple pay so you really never need cash.  The payment terminals are mobile so no-one ever disappears with your credit card... they bring the terminal to your table. 
No surcharges, either.
I even bought a car using apple pay. 

As I travel around I always ask if I can use apple pay.  NYC and Chicago are better than 50%, but most of the rest of the USA is pretty backwards.  Korea and China are pretty good, Singapore has it nearly everywhere, Malaysia and Thailand are adopting, Indonesia has developed its own payment systems, and Europe is rapidly improving.  The USA is so noticeably behind. 

Cash?   OK, I do have the emergency $100 in my wallet, just in case. 

[Herman Cain]

No. Gives too much power to politicians. Also there are still a lot of people who "cash" their paychecks.   That said , I only carry a modest amount with me as the ease of use of credit and the banking system make it convenient to operate that way.  I see lots of people using cash at Costco.

[Golden Avalanche]

That's because the marijuana industry in general is basically a cash only business.  Banks won't deal with them; unless things have changed in the last year or so, most of them can't even open a checking account in their company's name.

Relevant to this discussion, the House of Representatives passed a bill today allowing banks to do business in the Mary Jane industry. Sure it's dead in the water in the Senate, and of course the White House, but formalized and legalized banking seems not too far off in the future. 

[Marquette Fan]

When I was in Malmo, Sweden last year we went to a restaurant that had sign posted "Cashless Restaurant".

There's a place my family and I go to every year for their Pumpkin Farm that posted they are going cashless for their pumpkin farm season.

[MU82]

I live in Russia and the payment systems here are so far ahead of the USA in terms of security and convenience that it's amazing.  I go everywhere with just my phone.  I pay US bills with Venmo or Zelle.  In Russia I use apple pay for everything.  The Babushka who sells fruit in front of my apartment building has a payment machine and I pay with apple pay.  Horrible road-side rest stops 1000km from the nearest city that don't even have indoor toilets allow you to pay for your blini with apple pay.  Every restaurant takes apple pay.  They even do a separate charge for tips using apple pay so you really never need cash.  The payment terminals are mobile so no-one ever disappears with your credit card... they bring the terminal to your table. 
No surcharges, either.
I even bought a car using apple pay. 

As I travel around I always ask if I can use apple pay.  NYC and Chicago are better than 50%, but most of the rest of the USA is pretty backwards.  Korea and China are pretty good, Singapore has it nearly everywhere, Malaysia and Thailand are adopting, Indonesia has developed its own payment systems, and Europe is rapidly improving.  The USA is so noticeably behind. 

Cash?   OK, I do have the emergency $100 in my wallet, just in case.

Why don't you have 100 rubles, comrade?

[Dr. Blackheart]

In the U.S., you can't add a surcharge for using a credit card.  I am not sure if that's the law, or part of the Merchant Agreement every bank uses with businesses that accept their card.

I don't think it's enforced that strictly, but once I was in charge of a large group theater outing where I collected money from everyone for the tickets and put it in the bank. When I went to the box office, I was told there was a $2 per ticket fee for paying with plastic.  I didn't have enough cash, so I paid the fee and called the credit card company the next day.  They immediately credited those fees to my statement, and my guess is that the theater got a chargeback and a nastygram from the card company.

Can’t wait for my MU season ticket surcharge rebate!