A few moments of silence

[tower912]

A lot of people died 18 years ago.  A lot of people who survived are facing serious health issues from the work they did afterwards.  So, take a moment.....

And now back to the normally scheduled kvetching.

[muwarrior69]

Yep, I can remember the 100 cars still in the parking lot at the Princeton Junction train station that did not go home that evening. Six from my parish perished that day.

[Galway Eagle]

Watched it live. By the time the second building had come down I had two uncles from Chicago bringing full fire trucks (engines?) to help with cleanup.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2018/9/12/18462139/you-re-not-going-to-believe-what-you-see-chicago-brothers-recall-9-11-in-ny

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Interesting story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16-pilot-was-ready-to-give-her-life-on-sept-11/2015/09/06/7c8cddbc-d8ce-11e0-9dca-a4d231dfde50_story.html

What a different time pre-9/11 was.

[mu_hilltopper]

One of my many regrets is to not have traveled to ground zero in those first few weeks.  I don't think you could see 100000 pictures and it would do that scene justice.

[Mr. Nielsen]

The sports side of things, I enjoy the clip ESPN plays on the Welles Crowther. An American equities trader and volunteer firefighter known for saving as many as 18 lives during the September 11 attacks in New York City, during which he lost his own life.

On September 11, 2001, minutes after United Airlines Flight 175 struck the South Tower between floors 77 and 85 at 9:03a.m., Crowther called his mother from his office at 9:12 a.m., leaving the message, "Mom, this is Welles. I wanted you to know that I'm OK." Crowther made his way to the 78th floor sky lobby, where he encountered a group of survivors, including a badly burned Lin Young, who worked on the 86th floor in New York's Department of Taxation and Finance. Young had been one of about 200 people waiting at a bank of elevators to evacuate when the plane hit the tower and was one of the few survivors. Crowther, carrying a young woman on his back, directed them to the one working stairway. The survivors followed him 17 floors down, where he dropped off the woman he was carrying before heading back upstairs to assist others. By the time he returned to the 78th floor, he had a bandana around his nose and mouth to protect him from smoke and haze. He found another group of survivors, which included AON Corp. employee Judy Wein, who worked on the 103rd floor and was in pain from a broken arm, cracked ribs and a punctured lung. According to Wein, Crowther assisted in putting out fires and administering first aid. He then announced to that group, "Everyone who can stand, stand now. If you can help others, do so." He directed this group downstairs as well. As occupants of the Tower headed for the street, Crowther returned up the stairs to help others. He was last seen doing so with members of the FDNY before the South Tower collapsed at 9:59 a.m.

Crowther's body was found in March 2002. Crowther's family was unaware of the details of his activities between his last phone call to his mother and his death, until Allison Crowther read Judy Wein's firsthand account in The New York Times of being saved by a man in a red bandana, which led to Allison meeting with the people Welles had saved, including Wein and Young. They confirmed from photographs the identity of the man who aided them. He was a huge Boston College  fan.

The clip is easy to find on youtube.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Too bad we decided to enter an endless war in response.  It would be like WW2 still going on in 1959 after Pearl Harbor.

[LloydsLegs]

Yep, I can remember the 100 cars still in the parking lot at the Princeton Junction train station that did not go home that evening. Six from my parish perished that day.

I never thought of that.  Just haunting.

[Cheeks]

Too bad we decided to enter an endless war in response.  It would be like WW2 still going on in 1959 after Pearl Harbor.

Not today

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Today is the most important day to remember how we failed in our response. If that makes you uncomfortable or angry, then look within.

[Cheeks]

Today is the most important day to remember how we failed in our response. If that makes you uncomfortable or angry, then look within.

Because you don’t know what would have happened if an alt approach was taken....the same ridiculous answer you gave about Lovell and MU spending.  For you it is two dimensional thinking, and your default is the other approach would automatically be better and the right decision, even though that is impossible to know.

That is why.

Not today!

[rocket surgeon]

Today is the most important day to remember how we failed in our response. If that makes you uncomfortable or angry, then look within.

no it isn't!  you guys can't help yourselves from using that day for something other than to honor those who were killed and those who were killed trying to help.  find some other day to spew your westboro baptist church like mentality on a day many people mourn.  just allow us this day.  you can have all of the rest of the days for your hatreds

follow your own advice-" If that makes you uncomfortable or angry, then look within." and start your own little topic on your little misinformed myopic opinion and see how far you get tinyboy.  you would do just fine in a madison board

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

It’s tomorrow.  Are you snowflakes OK with me now saying that our leaders have used the memory of those who died 18 years and one day ago to push an immoral agenda?  Or are you still unwilling to admit your point of view has allowed those victims to die in vain.

[Lighthouse 84]

Interesting story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16-pilot-was-ready-to-give-her-life-on-sept-11/2015/09/06/7c8cddbc-d8ce-11e0-9dca-a4d231dfde50_story.html

What a different time pre-9/11 was.

That's an amazing story. And yes, a different time is right.  We have far too many people living in our country who don't understand or appreciate the mentality that Lucky Penney has.  We live in the greatest country in the world.  And we get to, because of people like her.

[tower912]

I am 'both and' when it comes to this.  I appreciate and honor the loss of life and the individual and collective acts  of heroism that day.   And I also opposed the invasion of Iraq.  But, I am done with that argument.

[Lennys Tap]

That's an amazing story. And yes, a different time is right.  We have far too many people living in our country who don't understand or appreciate the mentality that Lucky Penney has.  We live in the greatest country in the world.  And we get to, because of people like her.

The stories of heroism on that day and the days that followed are countless. September 11 is a day that will live in infamy for most Americans. For at lest one congresswoman, though, it's nothing more than the day that "Some people did something". I wonder what headline she would have written re December 7, 1941.

[Billy Hoyle]

The stories of heroism on that day and the days that followed are countless. September 11 is a day that will live in infamy for most Americans. For at lest one congresswoman, though, it's nothing more than the day that "Some people did something". I wonder what headline she would have written re December 7, 1941.

Not exactly what she said or in the correct context, but whatever works for you...

[tower912]

And there are plenty of dumb statements by many people.   Why hold onto that one?    And how does that compare to wanting to hold secret peace talks with the Taliban at Camp David right around this anniversary?    Granted, they were cancelled, but to even entertain the idea.......   how is that not viewed as incredibly disrespectful?     But again, I am a 'both and' kind of guy and I think there is plenty of dumb to go around.   

[Lennys Tap]

Not exactly what she said or in the correct context, but whatever works for you...

It is exactly what she said. Exactly. In context, she was claiming that CAIR was founded because "some people did something" and Muslims were losing civil liberties. She was wrong, of course. CAIR was founded in June of 1994, but who's counting, right?

[tower912]

She was wrong.    She is not the first politician to make an inaccurate statement.    I suspect she will not be the last.    Why the animus?

[jsglow]

She was wrong.    She is not the first politician to make an inaccurate statement.    I suspect she will not be the last.    Why the animus?

I think the animus is that many people, reasonable people mind you, consider her to be anti American.  Grandpa Joe makes mistakes.  Trump says stupid stuff every day.  Neither hate America.

Sorry, not really interested in breaking rules around here but thought that deserved an answer.

[wadesworld]

One of the few moments in my lifetime that you remember exactly where you were when it happened.  The Museum and memorial in NYC is wonderfully done and very heavy.  I think the only time I was in NYC prior to 2016 was for the 1995 NIT semifinals and finals, and I was not quite 7 years old then so I don't remember it at all really.  Being at ground zero it's hard to even comprehend that sort of destruction.

[jsglow]

One of the few moments in my lifetime that you remember exactly where you were when it happened.  The Museum and memorial in NYC is wonderfully done and very heavy.  I think the only time I was in NYC prior to 2016 was for the 1995 NIT semifinals and finals, and I was not quite 7 years old then so I don't remember it at all really.  Being at ground zero it's hard to even comprehend that sort of destruction.

What's funny wades is that I haven't been to Manhattan since 9/11 but had been there many times before.  Business just didn't take me there the second half of my career.  Need to get back.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think the animus is that many people, reasonable people mind you, consider her to be anti American.  Grandpa Joe makes mistakes.  Trump says stupid stuff every day.  Neither hate America.

Sorry, not really interested in breaking rules around here but thought that deserved an answer.

I'm not particularly sure that Omar loves or hates America.  Just like I'm not sure with Trump.

[Lennys Tap]

I think the animus is that many people, reasonable people mind you, consider her to be anti American.  Grandpa Joe makes mistakes.  Trump says stupid stuff every day.  Neither hate America.

Sorry, not really interested in breaking rules around here but thought that deserved an answer.

I don't think I would say she "hates" America, but I think it's fair to say her first allegiance is elsewhere. Everything else I agree with.

[Lennys Tap]

Just like I'm not sure with Trump.

Not a fan of "the Donald" but this may be the dumbest statement in the history of Scoop.

[wadesworld]

What's funny wades is that I haven't been to Manhattan since 9/11 but had been there many times before.  Business just didn't take me there the second half of my career.  Need to get back.

It's beautifully done.  I'm not a huge fan of big cities so I thought I'd hate NYC but I loved it.  I've only been back out there once since then but am planning on heading back out there next year.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Not a fan of "the Donald" but this may be the dumbest statement in the history of Scoop.

He's a fan of however he can make money and live a nice lifestyle.  If that includes "loving America" then he does his best to wrap himself in the flag.  When that includes breaking laws and undermining American interests to suit his own, he does so without much thought. 

[ZiggysFryBoy]

He's a fan of however he can make money and live a nice lifestyle.  If that includes "loving America" then he does his best to wrap himself in the flag.  When that includes breaking laws and undermining American interests to suit his own, he does so without much thought.

Politics, sultan.

[jesmu84]

Too bad we decided to enter an endless war in response.  It would be like WW2 still going on in 1959 after Pearl Harbor.

Eh.

If Japan and/or Germany were continuing to fight into 1959, we would still be at war with them.

The ultimate tragedy, of course, is that this all came from Saudi Arabia.

[Galway Eagle]

Eh.

If Japan and/or Germany were continuing to fight into 1959, we would still be at war with them.

The ultimate tragedy, of course, is that this all came from Saudi Arabia.

The tragedy portion isn't where it came from it's that we used a scape goat of the taliban. It'd be like taking down a local drug seller but then not taking down the mob/cartel they buy from because you also have good legitimate business to do with them.

[Lennys Tap]

It's beautifully done.  I'm not a huge fan of big cities so I thought I'd hate NYC but I loved it.  I've only been back out there once since then but am planning on heading back out there next year.

+1. A very moving experience I would recommend to all.

[Lighthouse 84]

Today is the most important day to remember how we failed in our response. If that makes you uncomfortable or angry, then look within.

I guess you'd be happier with a museum dedicated to how muslims lives in the US have been changed since 9/11 rather than to honor both those who lost their lives to terrorists and to those first responders who risked or gave their own lives that day?

Tower's original post was meant for us to take a moment related to the latter, not the former.  What is so difficult in keeping this topic away from politics and simply honoring those for whom it was intended?

Lock it up.

[jsglow]

It's beautifully done.  I'm not a huge fan of big cities so I thought I'd hate NYC but I loved it.  I've only been back out there once since then but am planning on heading back out there next year.

I actually like NYC a lot. I wouldn't live there now but as a young professional on the Upper West Side it would have been fine for a couple years.

[mu_hilltopper]

This is why we can't have nice things.   Keep it on topic, people.

[TallTitan34]

Interesting story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16-pilot-was-ready-to-give-her-life-on-sept-11/2015/09/06/7c8cddbc-d8ce-11e0-9dca-a4d231dfde50_story.html

What a different time pre-9/11 was.

That's insane. 

I had not heard of this until now.  Documentaries and articles always talk about the decision being made to shoot down "hostile" commercial jets, but the ones I have watched have never mentioned they didn't actually have the ability to shoot it down.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That's insane. 

I had not heard of this until now.  Documentaries and articles always talk about the decision being made to shoot down "hostile" commercial jets, but the ones I have watched have never mentioned they didn't actually have the ability to shoot it down.

This story was mentioned on NPR yesterday.  They also commented that the military had no radars facing "inside" the United States so that's why they had no idea that the plane crashed in Shanksville.  They had the FAA, but their radars didn't work great unless the planes had their transponders on.  And that's one of the first things the terrorists did - turn them off.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

I guess you'd be happier with a museum dedicated to how muslims lives in the US have been changed since 9/11 rather than to honor both those who lost their lives to terrorists and to those first responders who risked or gave their own lives that day?

Tower's original post was meant for us to take a moment related to the latter, not the former.  What is so difficult in keeping this topic away from politics and simply honoring those for whom it was intended?

Lock it up.

I have been to the 9/11 museum in Nee York. It is a wonderfully moving place to be. I came away ashamed that our country used those victims to conduct an over reaching and violent foreign policy in response. That’s not politics. That’s just facts.

If someone wanted to build a museum dedicated to the American Muslim, I might be moved by that was well.

[Lennys Tap]

I have been to the 9/11 museum in Nee York. It is a wonderfully moving place to be. I came away ashamed that our country used those victims to conduct an over reaching and violent foreign policy in response. That’s not politics. That’s just facts.

If someone wanted to build a museum dedicated to the American Muslim, I might be moved by that was well.

You came away ashamed? You should be. And it's most definitely politics.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

You came away ashamed? You should be.

Ashamed for our country yes.  And you're right I should be.

[mu_hilltopper]

Great job, people.  So proud.