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Author Topic: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players  (Read 68586 times)

Cheeks

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #425 on: September 19, 2019, 08:57:35 AM »
The subject is “fair PAY to play act”.  Pay.  Compensation.  And we really have people here now saying they aren’t advocating the student athletes get paid....and moments later supporting this bill and saying they should be able to monetize their likeness.


You cannot make this crap up.   It’s compensation, anyway you cut it.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

TheGym

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #426 on: September 19, 2019, 09:08:25 AM »
The subject is “fair PAY to play act”.  Pay.  Compensation.  And we really have people here now saying they aren’t advocating the student athletes get paid....and moments later supporting this bill and saying they should be able to monetize their likeness.


You cannot make this crap up.   It’s compensation, anyway you cut it.

There is a big difference between getting a check from a university for the time spent playing a sport on behalf of the university, and getting a check from Nike/Adidas/UA for the use of their likeness.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #427 on: September 19, 2019, 09:09:59 AM »
The subject is “fair PAY to play act”.  Pay.  Compensation.  And we really have people here now saying they aren’t advocating the student athletes get paid....and moments later supporting this bill and saying they should be able to monetize their likeness.


Some people don't want students to receive more than the value of their cost-of-attendance scholarship directly from their educational institution.  There are a lot of reasons why that would be problematic.  However many of these same people are fine with them being compensated by outside entities.

So when "a Seton Hall poll earlier this year found that 49% of Americans felt that college athletes in revenue-producing sports should be financially compensated, compared with 46% who were opposed to compensation," my guess is that a lot of people are answering it one way due to their feelings in the former sentence. That is why the results in the WSJ poll are different because it was specifically about value for their likeness.

Of course this is simply a guess as to why the two polls are seemingly inconsistent. 
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Galway Eagle

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #428 on: September 19, 2019, 09:13:05 AM »
There is a big difference between getting a check from a university for the time spent playing a sport on behalf of the university, and getting a check from Nike/Adidas/UA for the use of their likeness.

This.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #429 on: September 19, 2019, 09:31:42 AM »
There is a big difference between getting a check from a university for the time spent playing a sport on behalf of the university, and getting a check from Nike/Adidas/UA for the use of their likeness.

Especially since these “image” payments are already occurring in the grey market under the table. Legitimatize it. Clean up the sport. Balance the playing field. Make sure these payments go to the kids and not their handlers.

If the NCAA doesn’t have the resources or will (and if they truly had the will, they’d staff their investigations as it’s much cheaper than the pay for play path) to police it, legitimize it as not doing so is do much worse damage to the credibility of the sport as we have seen. Right now, the NCAA is known as the sport of cheaters. And the ones getting cheated are the student athletes and fans.

Pakuni

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #430 on: September 19, 2019, 10:22:54 AM »
There is a big difference between getting a check from a university for the time spent playing a sport on behalf of the university, and getting a check from Nike/Adidas/UA for the use of their likeness.

He knows, but the argument that this will be the ruination of college sports doesn't work as well without either conflating the two or creating a slippery slope by which allowing one will naturally lead to the other.

jesmu84

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #431 on: September 19, 2019, 11:13:34 AM »
Okay...NOW it would appear there's a path to paying athletes from the schools themselves:

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/27644345/ny-senator-proposes-bill-pay-college-athletes

Galway Eagle

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #432 on: September 19, 2019, 11:20:22 AM »
Okay...NOW it would appear there's a path to paying athletes from the schools themselves:

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/27644345/ny-senator-proposes-bill-pay-college-athletes

Absolutely not. What are they trying to outdo each other?! This is idiotic
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Benny B

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #433 on: September 19, 2019, 11:44:51 AM »
Absolutely not. What are they trying to outdo each other?! This is idiotic

This is not going to end well. 

The student-athlete system wasn't broken before... I'll concede there were more than a few hairline fractures here and there, but it was at least still in one piece. 

I don't see how any of this is going to heal the system; in fact, all of this legislation seems much closer to taking a sledgehammer to Christian Yelich's knee with the idea being that it might take longer to heal, but it will come out even stronger in the end.  Not sure how Hippocrates would feel about that one.

Honestly... I'm very concerned for MU.  Wojo best better win a Natty this year; otherwise, not only does the window of opportunity close, the land grants are going to drywall over every other window.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #434 on: September 19, 2019, 12:03:45 PM »
Absolutely not. What are they trying to outdo each other?! This is idiotic

They are, and that's the point. This is why the NCAA needs to immediately come up with a policy that allows for players to make money off their likenesses. Otherwise you will have 20 different states passing 20 different types of legislation. This is the same reason the California law won't go into effect until 2023. It gives the NCAA time to create a nationwide model so if they truly believe in a fair and equitable system, they will put something in place that will allow for what the general goal of the laws these states are creating without having different rules across the country.

The NCAA asked California for more time because they were working on it and California's response was essentially "you had time, now you are on our timetable". They could try to fight all these, lose across the country and have a complete disparate clusterf**k, or just accept that this is coming and create a model where it will be one rule for everyone. The states are going to play off each other to force the NCAA's hand, and it's absolutely the right thing to do because this is long overdue.
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MU82

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #435 on: September 19, 2019, 02:17:36 PM »
The subject is “fair PAY to play act”.  Pay.  Compensation.  And we really have people here now saying they aren’t advocating the student athletes get paid....and moments later supporting this bill and saying they should be able to monetize their likeness.


You cannot make this crap up.   It’s compensation, anyway you cut it.

Hoopaloopin' 101: Lie, deflect, shift goalposts, lie some more.

I had comments on 11 of the 18 pages of this thread -- literally dozens of comments. In only one comment (on page 12) did I even use the word "compensation," and that was to mock alleged capitalists who think it's wrong for athletes to be able to profit off their likenesses. On page 16, I used the word "salary" while mocking you for your worship of hypocrite/NFL failure/baseball bust Tim Tebow.

Otherwise, all of my comments either specifically mentioned athletes being allowed to profit from their likenesses or referred to previous comments on that subject. I never once talked about schools or the NCAA paying college athletes.

Within page 17, I had 6 comments, all of them about letting college athletes profit from their likenesses. Three of them cited data from a 2017 WaPo poll, and I used blue, bold-faced print to quote the data showing that 66% of Americans said college athletes SHOULD BE COMPENSATED WHEN THEIR NAMES AND IMAGES ARE USED TO GENERATE PROFIT.

Now, you LOVE polls. You think they provide "proof" of stuff. So you responded by lying about a Hartford Courant poll that showed otherwise -- there was no Courant poll, you tried to substitute different data in a desperate attempt to not go down in flames, and the link you provided actually confirmed what I said by citing the WaPo poll you tried but failed to discredit.

My favorite part was our exchange after your anti-Parrish diatribe. I talked specifically about athletes profiting from their likenesses and highlighted results of the WaPo poll showing support from 66% of Americans ... You responded: "2019 poll, only 49% supported it per Hartford Courant." You provided no link but you did throw in a wise-arse line about Churchill's quotes regarding the truth. Which was beautifully ironic because the truth was that there was no 2019 Courant poll ... I responded by asking for a link "if it exists" ... You responded: "If it exists? Are you suggesting something here Mike? A little surprised the journalist only presented one side and didn’t find another poll.....well you are out of practice I guess."

Well yes, I was suggesting something -- and for good reason. The journalist in me, despite being out of practice, smelled a liar, and my big nose was right. Not that it was a stretch to assume you were lying. It's what you do, and it's why just about nobody missed you (OK -- Boo Boo missed you) when you were permanently banned.

So, in addition to all of your other lies in this thread, your continued claim that I was "advocating the student athletes get paid....and moments later supporting this bill and saying they should be able to monetize their likeness" was just another whopper of a hoopaloop lie.

I decided to go through my posts in this thread because I thought, "You know, maybe this one time hoopy isn't lying; maybe he's right and I did start by talking about paying college athletes before switching to talking about profiting off their likenesses."

But no, you were wrong about that. Wrong about the Courant having a poll. Wrong about the data regarding athletes profiting off their likenesses. 

And then, applying your Hoopaloopin' 101 lessons, you wrapped up all those wrongs by lying about it all.

You were right about one thing, though: You can't make this crap up.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 04:01:37 PM by MU82 »
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WarriorDad

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #436 on: September 19, 2019, 03:44:26 PM »
Over the last year it seems five or six members here have mentioned their children are (or were) scholarship athletes.  We got into that group. 

Our own personal experience was positive with the school and N.C.A.A.   There can be moments that are uneasy when one understands your child isn’t the star as they were in high school.  They sit on the bench and pushed to their limits emotionally and physically, but it was not abusive.

The other parents with children that are in college athletics are the experiences positive, negative?
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TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #437 on: September 19, 2019, 04:56:24 PM »
A thorough, complete, and accurate beat down of Chico's usual lies by and 82 and...bye bye Chicos, Hello WarriorDad. Weird.
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tower912

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #438 on: September 19, 2019, 04:57:53 PM »
Coincidence.
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TSmith34, Inc.

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If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

Cheeks

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #440 on: September 19, 2019, 08:30:09 PM »
There is a big difference between getting a check from a university for the time spent playing a sport on behalf of the university, and getting a check from Nike/Adidas/UA for the use of their likeness.

Yes, or no....you are getting PAID to play. Furthermore, one is getting paid BECAUSE of his/her association as a member of a team.  The players wouldn't be paid if not for being on the team.  The player will be taxed on that income.  Let's cut to the chase, people here arguing they don't think they should get paid, yet arguing they should get paid.  And just wait until a few years from now when it isn't enough, pay them more and more and more and more. 

At that point, it becomes a job.  And at that point, the value of the scholarship, and everything else should be taxed as well.  Furthermore, if it is only THEIR likeness, then the player should not appear in uniform or any association with the team at all for any number of obvious reasons.

When I do a deal with Dal, Mahomes, Lebron, etc...I cannot feature them in uniform unless I do a separate deal with the club and THEN also get approval from the league. 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 08:33:43 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #441 on: September 19, 2019, 08:34:46 PM »
A thorough, complete, and accurate beat down of Chico's usual lies by and 82 and...bye bye Chicos, Hello WarriorDad. Weird.

Pony up the cash, I'll prove you wrong.  Money goes to charity.  The offer still stands little fella.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #442 on: September 19, 2019, 08:37:27 PM »
Yes, or no....you are getting PAID to play. Furthermore, one is getting paid BECAUSE of his/her association as a member of a team.  The players wouldn't be paid if not for being on the team.  The player will be taxed on that income.  Let's cut to the chase, people here arguing they don't think they should get paid, yet arguing they should get paid.  And just wait until a few years from now when it isn't enough, pay them more and more and more and more. 

At that point, it becomes a job.  And at that point, the value of the scholarship, and everything else should be taxed as well.  Furthermore, if it is only THEIR likeness, then the player should not appear in uniform or any association with the team at all for any number of obvious reasons.

When I do a deal with Dal, Mahomes, Lebron, etc...I cannot feature them in uniform unless I do a separate deal with the club and THEN also get approval from the league. 

Let’s play “Is this a Chico’s Post?”

First paragraph: slippery slope nonsense.

Second: opinion not based in fact.

Third: irrelevant to the discussion

Yep!  A Chico’s post!!
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Cheeks

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #443 on: September 19, 2019, 08:40:29 PM »
Hoopaloopin' 101: Lie, deflect, shift goalposts, lie some more.

I had comments on 11 of the 18 pages of this thread -- literally dozens of comments. In only one comment (on page 12) did I even use the word "compensation," and that was to mock alleged capitalists who think it's wrong for athletes to be able to profit off their likenesses. On page 16, I used the word "salary" while mocking you for your worship of hypocrite/NFL failure/baseball bust Tim Tebow.

Otherwise, all of my comments either specifically mentioned athletes being allowed to profit from their likenesses or referred to previous comments on that subject. I never once talked about schools or the NCAA paying college athletes.


Lots of whining.  PROFIT from their likeness.....getting paid.  When Dak Prescott receives payment from the Cowboys or from a sponsor, he is getting paid for one reason...because he is the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys.  Two different entities paying him, for the same reason.  Just like a player in college would be paid for the same reason...because they play.  PAY TO PLAY.   You can whine all day and night, tell us how you coach girls basketball, I don't care....cut to the chase....it is PAY TO PLAY....it's in the damn legislation's title. 

What you are advocating is money laundering essentially, so you can hide behind some keyboard to suggest the schools aren't paying them directly.  HA!  These guys wouldn't get paid at all if not for playing, who does the paying still achieves the same goal you want...to pay them.   So who is the team you will be cheering for in the future?
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #444 on: September 19, 2019, 08:42:54 PM »
Lots of whining.  PROFIT from their likeness.....getting paid.  When Dak Prescott receives payment from the Cowboys or from a sponsor, he is getting paid for one reason...because he is the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys.  Two different entities paying him, for the same reason.  Just like a player in college would be paid for the same reason...because they play.  PAY TO PLAY.   You can whine all day and night, tell us how you coach girls basketball, I don't care....cut to the chase....it is PAY TO PLAY....it's in the damn legislation's title. 

What you are advocating is money laundering essentially, so you can hide behind some keyboard to suggest the schools aren't paying them directly.  HA!  These guys wouldn't get paid at all if not for playing, who does the paying still achieves the same goal you want...to pay them.   So who is the team you will be cheering for in the future?

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Cheeks

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #445 on: September 19, 2019, 08:43:43 PM »
Let’s play “Is this a Chico’s Post?”

First paragraph: slippery slope nonsense.

Second: opinion not based in fact.

Third: irrelevant to the discussion

Yep!  A Chico’s post!!

How was it irrelevant to the post?  It's how endorsements work to protect entities from implied endorsements and potential lawsuits.  The same reason why Brewcity can't get paid to do a commercial wearing his Milwaukee Fire Dept gear.  NO different.  That's not an opinion, either.

Slippery slope....sure the last sentence of that first paragraph....weird you ignored the other parts of it that are dead nails right...not surprising you don't want to deal with those.

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

cheebs09

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #446 on: September 19, 2019, 08:44:44 PM »
Lots of whining.  PROFIT from their likeness.....getting paid.  When Dak Prescott receives payment from the Cowboys or from a sponsor, he is getting paid for one reason...because he is the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys.  Two different entities paying him, for the same reason.  Just like a player in college would be paid for the same reason...because they play.  PAY TO PLAY.   You can whine all day and night, tell us how you coach girls basketball, I don't care....cut to the chase....it is PAY TO PLAY....it's in the damn legislation's title. 

What you are advocating is money laundering essentially, so you can hide behind some keyboard to suggest the schools aren't paying them directly.  HA!  These guys wouldn't get paid at all if not for playing, who does the paying still achieves the same goal you want...to pay them.   So who is the team you will be cheering for in the future?

So if I walked out there with my current skill set and played QB for the Cowboys, I’d make the same in endorsements as Dak?

Pakuni

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #447 on: September 19, 2019, 08:46:27 PM »
Let’s play “Is this a Chico’s Post?”

First paragraph: slippery slope nonsense.

Second: opinion not based in fact.

Third: irrelevant to the discussion

Yep!  A Chico’s post!!


You forgot the inane name dropping.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #448 on: September 19, 2019, 08:46:47 PM »
How was it irrelevant to the post?  It's how endorsements work to protect entities from implied endorsements and potential lawsuits.  The same reason why Brewcity can't get paid to do a commercial wearing his Milwaukee Fire Dept gear.  NO different.  That's not an opinion, either.

Slippery slope....sure the last sentence of that first paragraph....weird you ignored the other parts of it that are dead nails right...not surprising you don't want to deal with those.

I’ve dealt with every argument you have made. Beaten you like a rented mule.

Now I’m just largely ignoring you and making fun of your ridiculousness. It’s kind of a game for me right now.
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Cheeks

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #449 on: September 19, 2019, 08:46:50 PM »
Marquette

Division II?  Or a new division for schools like FBS vs FCS that won't be participating in this out of choice or eventually cannot compete 10 to 15 years down the line as the shift to larger schools dominates.  But hey, progress. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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