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Author Topic: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country  (Read 4141 times)

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2019, 06:43:18 PM »
You know this how?

Mizzou is his fourth job. He has never stayed for more than 3 years at any of them. And yet you "know" that Martin would have stayed at Marquette for a long time? Okey dokey then.

And BTW, Martin's Cal team lost a first-round game as a 4-seed -- a fireable offense around these parts!

Cal is a crapshow. The department is in ridiculous debt. The football stadium renovations won’t be paid off for another 100 years. And they do have high academic standards for recruiting.That’s why he left. I think he would have stayed at MU with the stability and commitment of the school.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2019, 06:51:07 PM »
Cal is a crapshow. The department is in ridiculous debt. The football stadium renovations won’t be paid off for another 100 years. And they do have high academic standards for recruiting.That’s why he left. I think he would have stayed at MU with the stability and commitment of the school.

You forgot that a fault line literally runs down the center of the football stadium and they have JUCOs as student athletes (Aaron Rodgers, C.J. Anderson, et al). A mess.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2019, 07:52:41 PM »
You forgot that a fault line literally runs down the center of the football stadium and they have JUCOs as student athletes (Aaron Rodgers, C.J. Anderson, et al). A mess.

Not every kid is at a JUCO because of grades (Rogers and Jimmy Butler are two perfect examples).  Cal’s Administration is also hostile towards athletics, especially football and basketball.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2019, 08:02:21 PM »
Not every kid is at a JUCO because of grades (Rogers and Jimmy Butler are two perfect examples).  Cal’s Administration is also hostile towards athletics, especially football and basketball.

So true! But MU has zero JUCOs as student athletes in ALL sports. Thanks Larry!

WhiteTrash

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2019, 08:05:56 PM »
Cal’s Administration is also hostile towards athletics, especially football and basketball.
Sounds like Colorado. The City of Boulder is hostile to CU football.

Cheeks

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2019, 09:39:25 PM »
So true! But MU has zero JUCOs as student athletes in ALL sports. Thanks Larry!

Nothing wrong with JUCOs, having nearly 40% of your roster....is a problem.   

Athletic department won President’s Award in 2017, the only school other than Nova to win in four years.  Last year Big East champions in vball, women’s hoops, runner up in men’s hoops, golf ncaa bid, etc.   Yes, we are struggling as an athletic dept. 
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Cheeks

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2019, 09:46:00 PM »
Marquette made it known they would pass ("declined to pursue". Note that carefully worded quote). Ask your buddy Cords instead of your go to Google. 

Cords sent a letter out to donors a week or so before basically saying hang on for the bumpy ride...we'll be okay in the long term.  Buzz subsequently locked himself in a room and pursued his next job as MUAD silently applauded.

Wow, just wow.  We were not given a bid.  So yesterday it was Tyshawn Taylor’s mom was lying, now it is Broecker, Buzz, etc that are lying. 

This is getting great

I guess when Buzz said a week earlier we would accept a bid, that was different in the same timing as the AD making it known.  So Buzz was making it known he was for it, and the AD was making it known that we weren’t for it.  Oh, and if one looks at if we were even worthy of one...in a coincidence no one should be surprised by, we weren’t worthy of a bid.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2014/03/16/marquettes-8-year-ncaa-run-comes-to-halt/6509573/

 :o  :o


After losing to Xavier in the Big East tournament....”“I hope that we go to the NIT, and I mean that sincerely,” Williams said. “I’d like us to keep playing.”

Good thing MU let the NIT know we would decline....oh wait.   No wonder why Buzz said the night of the snub he was disappointed.  So Buzz was lying, MU AD was lying?  Maybe some wishful history not remembered so well?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 09:55:19 PM by Cheeks »
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2019, 02:59:48 AM »
Nothing wrong with JUCOs, having nearly 40% of your roster....is a problem.   

Athletic department won President’s Award in 2017, the only school other than Nova to win in four years.  Last year Big East champions in vball, women’s hoops, runner up in men’s hoops, golf ncaa bid, etc.   Yes, we are struggling as an athletic dept.

Jamil Lott, Marcus Jackson, Trend Blackledge, Mike Kinsella, Joe Fulce....squirmy

Cheeks

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2019, 09:27:57 AM »
Jamil Lott, Marcus Jackson, Trend Blackledge, Mike Kinsella, Joe Fulce....squirmy

Those guys all played on the same roster and made up nearly 40% of our roster....was it a pickup game roster of grads and current players?  To my memory, the most we ever had was three during that time period but if I am wrong I will happily admit it.  JUCOs are fine, but too many is a major challenge with roster management as I have said before.

I noticed you have moved on from your NIT nonsense.  Having lunch late next week with someone from MU athletics during that time period that would have to be involved with your construct.  To be clear, you are saying despite Buzz saying in media interviews during Big East tournament that he wanted a NIT bid, but MU and the AD behind his back told NIT we didn’t....this born out in a letter to donors that everything would be ok by stating this or it’s how you read it?  Then when we are “snubbed” (which is funny because we didn’t deserve a bid to begin with), head coach goes back to media saying how disappointed he is that we had no NIT bid.  But that was all part of the master plan to stop streak of post season bids, deny kids a chance to continue to play because MU, despite our head coach on record multiple times in media over a five day span saying he wanted NIT bid, didn’t want a bid.  Yet, we still issued statement not only by Buzz but also athletic dept (multiple people) they we were disappointed in not getting it and would not go for CBI.  To summarize, MU was lying the whole way to the public and putting their coach out to hang himself essentially, and MU doubled down on this by also releasing an official statement of our disappointment that AD has to buy off on knowing it was 100% not true....is that your version?


Just want to make sure I have this correct above.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 09:48:29 AM by Cheeks »
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
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brewcity77

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2019, 09:53:32 AM »
Those guys all played on the same roster and made up nearly 40% of our roster....was it a pickup game roster of grads and current players?  To my memory, the most we ever had was three during that time period but if I am wrong I will happily admit it.  JUCOs are fine, but too many is a major challenge with roster management as I have said before.

I noticed you have moved on from your NIT nonsense.  Having lunch late next week with someone from MU athletics during that time period that would have to be involved with your construct.  To be clear, you are saying despite Buzz saying in media interviews during Big East tournament that he wanted a NIT bid, but MU and the AD behind his back told NIT we didn’t....this born out in a letter to donors that everything would be ok by stating this or it’s how you read it?  Then when we are “snubbed” (which is funny because we didn’t deserve a bid to begin with), head coach goes back to media saying how disappointed he is that we had no NIT bid.  But that was all part of the master plan to stop streak of post season bids, deny kids a chance to continue to play because MU, despite our head coach on record multiple times in media over a five day span saying he wanted NIT bid, didn’t want a bid.  Yet, we still issued statement not only by Buzz but also athletic dept (multiple people) they we were disappointed in not getting it and would not go for CBI.  To summarize, MU was lying the whole way to the public and putting their coach out to hang himself essentially, and MU doubled down on this by also releasing an official statement of our disappointment that AD has to buy off on knowing it was 100% not true....is that your version?


Just want to make sure I have this correct above.

Pretty sure this belongs in your "Old Stuff" thread.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #60 on: August 25, 2019, 09:56:20 AM »
Jamil Lott, Marcus Jackson, Trend Blackledge, Mike Kinsella, Joe Fulce....squirmy

Chico is "all in" on unqualified high schoolers, JUCOs, transfers and guys from prep school diploma mills - if the coach is Tom Crean.

Cheeks

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #61 on: August 25, 2019, 10:29:11 AM »
Jamil Lott, Marcus Jackson, Trend Blackledge, Mike Kinsella, Joe Fulce....squirmy

A little digging, Buzz had five JUCOs on one team, that's a huge percentage of the roster, which means constant turnover. 

The players above in your post, did not all play together, so talk about moving the goal posts. 

JUCOs are fine, but not is mass quantities.  It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and works against you in high school recruiting because kids always think you are going to bring in another JUCO. Then you have issues about whether they can graduate, will the course work transfer.  And of course most JUCOs are only 2 year players, there are exceptions like Kinsella, Butler.

"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

MU82

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2019, 10:36:10 AM »
Cal is a crapshow. The department is in ridiculous debt. The football stadium renovations won’t be paid off for another 100 years. And they do have high academic standards for recruiting.That’s why he left. I think he would have stayed at MU with the stability and commitment of the school.

OK, you're allowed your opinion.

I am glad we didn't hire him, and if he is the best example of the kind of high-quality, proven P5 coaches who will be lining up for the MU job the next time it's open, I'll again be happy to go with a top assistant from a great program.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2019, 02:01:54 PM »
Jamil Lott, Marcus Jackson, Trend Blackledge, Mike Kinsella, Joe Fulce....squirmy

Kinsella started at Rice. 4-2-4. Fulce was a qualifier out of HS. Jackson had to graduate before TC was allowed to bring an another non-qualifier JUCO.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2019, 02:06:08 PM »
OK, you're allowed your opinion.

I am glad we didn't hire him, and if he is the best example of the kind of high-quality, proven P5 coaches who will be lining up for the MU job the next time it's open, I'll again be happy to go with a top assistant from a great program.

I’m not saying we should have hired him, just providing context for the Cal situation.

I had no issues with hiring Wojo. I am fine in hiring a guy who views MU as a steppingstone job since that means they will have left us in better shape than which they found us.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Nukem2

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2019, 02:17:31 PM »
I’m not saying we should have hired him, just providing context for the Cal situation.

I had no issues with hiring Wojo. I am fine in hiring a guy who views MU as a steppingstone job since that means they will have left us in better shape than which they found us.
Yes, when one looks at KO and TC.  Now, Mike Deane was a different result though he probably viewed MU as a destination job?  As for Buzz, well, that’s a story unto itself.

MU82

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2019, 03:42:47 PM »
I’m not saying we should have hired him, just providing context for the Cal situation.

I had no issues with hiring Wojo. I am fine in hiring a guy who views MU as a steppingstone job since that means they will have left us in better shape than which they found us.

Fair enough. Definitely agree with your last line.

Very, very few basketball coaching jobs are not "stepping stone" jobs. Even the Ks, Izzo, Cals, etc have considered going to the NBA. Even Roy left Kansas. Even Al tried to bolt Marquette.

For the most part, these coaches wouldn't be in position to step away if, as you said, they hadn't excelled.

And if you're not at a blueblood with a shot an NBA gig, you almost always are looking for a bigger college job. The Mark Fews and Bob McKillops are rare.
 
I hope Wojo does so well at Marquette that he becomes a hot commodity ... and then I'd be hoping he decides he'd rather stay than go.
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4everCrean

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2019, 12:40:12 PM »
If you can see the future why are you being wasteful and spending time on Scoop?

Because, like me, #UnleashCain knows that MUScoop will soon be the site of an unprecedented breakthrough in interpersonal relations leading to peace and mutual respect among persons of differing opinions.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

4everCrean

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2019, 12:54:00 PM »
There is something wrong when we are lumped in with Dayton, or that we are even included in this conversation.

Ahh, but did Dayton receive 50% more votes as the most underrated program due to better resources, or due to significantly lower expectations regarding future success?
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

4everCrean

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2019, 01:40:34 PM »
A little digging, Buzz had five JUCOs on one team, that's a huge percentage of the roster, which means constant turnover. 

The players above in your post, did not all play together, so talk about moving the goal posts. 

JUCOs are fine, but not is mass quantities.  It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and works against you in high school recruiting because kids always think you are going to bring in another JUCO. Then you have issues about whether they can graduate, will the course work transfer.  And of course most JUCOs are only 2 year players, there are exceptions like Kinsella, Butler.

Buzz's first full year recruiting class included 4 freshmen, a 7-2 center and three RCSI top 75 players along with 2 Jucos, even though, he had brought in 2 Jucos the year before after the 2008 recruiting class fell apart after Crean left.

Buzz's problems with recruiting freshmen centered more on getting players who were way overrated: Mbao, Eric Williams, Jamil Jones, Juan Anderson, somewhat overrated: Derrick Wilson (wasn't top 100), Junior Cadougan, or problematic Jeronnie Myamon, Todd Mayo.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Cheeks

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2019, 02:15:12 PM »
Buzz's first full year recruiting class included 4 freshmen, a 7-2 center and three RCSI top 75 players along with 2 Jucos, even though, he had brought in 2 Jucos the year before after the 2008 recruiting class fell apart after Crean left.

Buzz's problems with recruiting freshmen centered more on getting players who were way overrated: Mbao, Eric Williams, Jamil Jones, Juan Anderson, somewhat overrated: Derrick Wilson (wasn't top 100), Junior Cadougan, or problematic Jeronnie Myamon, Todd Mayo.

I agree with you that he was not a great evaluator of high school seniors or when he did find them, some left early.  That put him in catch up mode.  That then leads to further imbalance, however, if you go down that path from continuity, culture, etc.  But yes, I agree with you on how he got there to a large degree.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2019, 03:36:26 PM »
Buzz's first full year recruiting class included 4 freshmen, a 7-2 center and three RCSI top 75 players along with 2 Jucos, even though, he had brought in 2 Jucos the year before after the 2008 recruiting class fell apart after Crean left.


Good points.

The team Buzz inherited (2008-09) had 4 senior starters and only one freshman (TC took Nick Williams with him to Indiana and Ty Taylor used his get out of jail free card to go to dream school Kansas). Then Pat (the thief) Hazel had to be kicked off the team the following year. So Buzz had some serious scrambling to do to avoid a total rebuild. Jucos (thank God) were part of that - he did it on the run and (incredibly) never lost the momentum from the very good (but very old - 4 senior starters) team he inherited. In fact, he built on it, culminating in 2012-13 with a team that won the Big East regular season championship and advanced to the Elite 8. BTW, that team had zero Junior college players on it - not that it matters to any but a few snobs in our fanbase.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 03:38:43 PM by Lennys Tap »

MU82

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Re: Marquette rated as one of the most underrated jobs in the country
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2019, 04:31:38 PM »
2012-13 with a team that won the Big East regular season championship and advanced to the Elite 8. BTW, that team had zero Junior college players on it - not that it matters to any but a few snobs in our fanbase.

Superb point, Lenny, and one I haven't seen anybody else make. (Maybe somebody has, and if so I'm sure that person will point it out, so apologies in advance.)

The Jucos helped Buzz bridge the gap (while still winning a lot of games and making NCAA tourneys) between the last TC team and our E8/BE title team.

A regular transfer (Jamil) and a grad transfer (Lockett) were important role players on our E8/BE title team. So Buzz did a nice job all around through recruits, transfers and, before that Jucos.

Some might find a way to criticize that. I call it good coaching.
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