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Author Topic: Crowder & Hayward to HOF  (Read 14692 times)

GooooMarquette

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #200 on: August 20, 2019, 08:21:01 AM »
No, actually the thread is on both...can one be admitted and have the possibility of graduation within the limits of counting set by the NCAA.  No goalpost shifting at all....it is both and how can you claim otherwise?


I thought the thread was on congratulating two former MU stars on getting into our Hall of Fame.

My bad....

Galway Eagle

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #201 on: August 20, 2019, 08:37:01 AM »
Wasn't three? With summer school, can't anyone graduate graduate in 3 years? Even if they enter with zero credits? Did Jae start out with minus 20?

Are basketball players allowed both summer school sessions? Maybe only allowed 12 credits in the spring (at least under Buzz)? Those would be the only two caveats that I can think of where the math wouldn't quite work but yeah my understanding after looking at credit requirements is anyone could graduate if they passed all classes, took 15 credits both semesters and full 12 credit allotment during summer school.
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PTM

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #202 on: August 20, 2019, 08:45:35 AM »

Stop glossing it over as a Buzz issue.  It is inherent in the history of MUBB started by Al. Pat Smith, Bob Lackey, Walton, Whitehead, Johnson, Worthen, Green, etc.  We'll see how these new absolute elite rules play out.

As I have said numerous times, I don't agree with it and I strongly believe it goes against the historical mission of the university. When you are dealing with first generation college kids, there are always cracks that need judgment. It's called the Cracked Sidewalks Rule. 

These are quite possibly the truest and only words that need to be spoken on this issue.

Well done, Dr.
New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #203 on: August 20, 2019, 09:06:31 AM »
It does???

Ironic, especially all the guys that stuck around to earn their degree like Bo, Gates, etc.  It’s almost lost on these guys what a UNIVERSITY is.  Basketball, also historically at MU, was a vehicle of opportunity for these guys to earn a degree from a quality school they likely would not have without b-ball skills.  Thankfully many of them earned a degree and took advantage of that opportunity.  There are far more of those guys historically at MU then the ones Lenny is trumpeting that had little or no chance.  Quite frankly, it is rather insulting to those guys that he would even make that statement about them.  I hope he is not saying they were not intellectually capable, or didn’t have the drive to finish school (yes, there are examples like Vander), but maybe he can articulate what the hell he meant by that statement. 

Your “it does?” is the appropriate response.
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Head Coach Roy Williams

brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #204 on: August 20, 2019, 09:11:38 AM »
It’s almost lost on these guys what a UNIVERSITY is.

Just like how it's lost on the NCAA what a UNIVERSITY is. They just treat universities like billion dollar revenue machines while preventing the workers in that machine from enjoying the same opportunities the other students receive, such as a job or the ability to profit off one's own likeness.

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #205 on: August 20, 2019, 09:21:34 AM »
Just like how it's lost on the NCAA what a UNIVERSITY is. They just treat universities like billion dollar revenue machines while preventing the workers in that machine from enjoying the same opportunities the other students receive, such as a job or the ability to profit off one's own likeness.

Lol.  The NCAA is made up of all those universities.  So when you say they, you should say WE. 

Other students don’t get to travel on the university’s dime, get free clothes, free training, free room and board, access to media, a chance to perform in front of thousands each year.  The NCAA doesn’t just administer men’s basketball, but for some reason some of you just cannot process this.  So when you keep saying they don’t get to do what other students do, why do you and others forget to mention that no other every day students get to do what they do?  Funny how one sided your street is.  And yes, they can get a job as has been stated and proven here many times over...why does that falsehood continue to be spread?  There are ncaa athletes that have jobs.
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Galway Eagle

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #206 on: August 20, 2019, 09:26:44 AM »
Lol.  The NCAA is made up of all those universities.  So when you say they, you should say WE. 

Other students don’t get to travel on the university’s dime, get free clothes, free training, free room and board, access to media, a chance to perform in front of thousands each year.  The NCAA doesn’t just administer men’s basketball, but for some reason some of you just cannot process this.  So when you keep saying they don’t get to do what other students do, why do you and others forget to mention that no other every day students get to do what they do?  Funny how one sided your street is.  And yes, they can get a job as has been stated and proven here many times over...why does that falsehood continue to be spread?  There are ncaa athletes that have jobs.

Doubt the BBall players could still do it with their schedules but I know Steve Novak or Travis Deiner worked at Mo's for the valet way back when as my sister was the bar manager. Just an example of the fact that they can get jobs.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Herman Cain

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #207 on: August 20, 2019, 09:54:34 AM »
Doubt the BBall players could still do it with their schedules but I know Steve Novak or Travis Deiner worked at Mo's for the valet way back when as my sister was the bar manager. Just an example of the fact that they can get jobs.
Coastal Carolina Cheerleaders has some creativity in their job selection.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/details-coastal-carolina-cheerleaders-escort-prostitution/

cheebs09

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #208 on: August 20, 2019, 10:36:07 AM »
Doesn’t the university pay for students to travel for case competitions at different schools? Honestly asking, as I don’t know, but seems to be a similar scenario of a student getting free travel and food for having a specialized skill set.

brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #209 on: August 20, 2019, 10:47:41 AM »
Lol.  The NCAA is made up of all those universities.  So when you say they, you should say WE.

It's almost like it'd be a good idea to compensate their largest revenue earners fairly. 🤯

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #210 on: August 20, 2019, 12:19:53 PM »
It's almost like it'd be a good idea to compensate their largest revenue earners fairly. 🤯

They are except the top .01%.   Room and board alone costs approximately $240,000.  If you throw in training, marketing and advertising their personal brands on national TV twice a week by the time they leave that may be hard to monetize but it’s at least a half million.  Add in the nice trip to Spain and France, Maui, Orlando, etc. on a yearly basis you can throw on another $50,000.  Add in the practice facilities and the Fiserv forum that they train in to hone their skills it’s even more.   These guys are being compensated extremely well.

The top .01 % need to go pro if it’s not enough.  But some understand the difference that one year at Duke (on national TV and in the NCAA tournament ) and signing a massive shoe contract is better than signing one out of high school for exponentially less money. 

Uncle Rico

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #211 on: August 20, 2019, 12:52:04 PM »
They are except the top .01%.   Room and board alone costs approximately $240,000.  If you throw in training, marketing and advertising their personal brands on national TV twice a week by the time they leave that may be hard to monetize but it’s at least a half million.  Add in the nice trip to Spain and France, Maui, Orlando, etc. on a yearly basis you can throw on another $50,000.  Add in the practice facilities and the Fiserv forum that they train in to hone their skills it’s even more.   These guys are being compensated extremely well.

The top .01 % need to go pro if it’s not enough.  But some understand the difference that one year at Duke (on national TV and in the NCAA tournament ) and signing a massive shoe contract is better than signing one out of high school for exponentially less money.

They shouldn’t waste their times in college.  Or traditional high schools.  Time to adopt the European model.  Our fascination with maintaining amateurism is baffling
Alleged Slurper

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #212 on: August 20, 2019, 12:56:20 PM »
They are except the top .01%.   Room and board alone costs approximately $240,000.  If you throw in training, marketing and advertising their personal brands on national TV twice a week by the time they leave that may be hard to monetize but it’s at least a half million.  Add in the nice trip to Spain and France, Maui, Orlando, etc. on a yearly basis you can throw on another $50,000.  Add in the practice facilities and the Fiserv forum that they train in to hone their skills it’s even more.   These guys are being compensated extremely well.

The top .01 % need to go pro if it’s not enough.  But some understand the difference that one year at Duke (on national TV and in the NCAA tournament ) and signing a massive shoe contract is better than signing one out of high school for exponentially less money.

Allowing players to profit off their likeness would create zero expenditures for programs.
It would, however, lessen the NCAA's ability to profit off their likenesses.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #213 on: August 20, 2019, 01:03:22 PM »
Are basketball players allowed both summer school sessions? Maybe only allowed 12 credits in the spring (at least under Buzz)? Those would be the only two caveats that I can think of where the math wouldn't quite work but yeah my understanding after looking at credit requirements is anyone could graduate if they passed all classes, took 15 credits both semesters and full 12 credit allotment during summer school.

So for Chicos to be correct Jae would have had to arrive at MU several credits short of zero.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #214 on: August 20, 2019, 01:13:59 PM »
As I have said numerous times, I don't agree with it and I strongly believe it goes against the historical mission of the university.

This is where I think you have it backwards. The mission of the university is to graduate students. Taking a student who mathematically could not graduate before their grant in aid ran out, goes against that mission.

For every Jae Crowder, there are literally hundreds of basketball recruits, many of whom are from just as disadvantaged backrounds as Jae, who have put in the work and earned a better academic standing. Why is it wrong for a university to consider a recurit's academics when selecting who to extend an offer to? Why does it "go against the historical mission of the university" to offer a scholarship to a student athlete from a disadvantaged background who can graduate over one who can't?
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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TAMU Eagle

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #215 on: August 20, 2019, 01:22:58 PM »
Other students don’t get to travel on the university’s dime, get free clothes, free training, free room and board, access to media, a chance to perform in front of thousands each year.

Change thousands to hundreds and scratch the access to media and I got all those things as an "other student"
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #216 on: August 20, 2019, 01:23:41 PM »
They shouldn’t waste their times in college.  Or traditional high schools.  Time to adopt the European model.  Our fascination with maintaining amateurism is baffling

I don’t think there is a fascination.  They should do what you are saying.  Those that want an education could still use the current model.  Those that want to take a chance of winning the lottery (being NBA draft pick) should go to the European model and then the majority can go back to school after their dream dies a slow and painful death.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #217 on: August 20, 2019, 01:30:42 PM »
I don’t think there is a fascination.  They should do what you are saying.  Those that want an education could still use the current model.  Those that want to take a chance of winning the lottery (being NBA draft pick) should go to the European model and then the majority can go back to school after their dream dies a slow and painful death.

It would be better for all sports and development of young athletes than varsity high school sports or college. 
Alleged Slurper

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #218 on: August 20, 2019, 01:34:40 PM »
Change thousands to hundreds and scratch the access to media and I got all those things as an "other student"

Come on man even if you included all the clothes you got from band, RA, and just being a student it's not nearly the quality or quantity that they get.

Also not everybody can get the free room and board as an RA sortve like athletes, it was a measure of compensation for your duties.

I'm also not sure if the band was flown on the private jet, or regular class but even every ncaa tournament site you went to isn't nearly the compensation they get to travel to major cities all over the Midwest and north east plus the Europe trips, thanksgiving tournaments etc.

I also don't know how much media you had access to but I doubt it was enough so that if you failed At your profession you were already set up to monetize your Instagram/Twitter as an "influencer".

I'm not saying I entirely agree with Chico's but I think it's disingenuous to say you were "compensated" to the degree they are.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #219 on: August 20, 2019, 03:33:38 PM »
So for Chicos to be correct Jae would have had to arrive at MU several credits short of zero.

not true.  He had to have graduated from his JUCO but many of those credits likely didn't count towards whatever degree program MU put him in, meaning that he had much more than the 128 or whatever MU requires for a degree these days. He then probably then earned the minimum number of credits to get eligible each season. He only had to be 60% of the way towards his degree entering his senior year and let's face it, most students aren't going to complete 40% of their degree in one year (52 credits if it's still 128 to graduate at MU), let alone a hoops player not focused on a degree.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 03:36:30 PM by Billy Hoyle »
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #220 on: August 20, 2019, 04:59:25 PM »
Doubt the BBall players could still do it with their schedules but I know Steve Novak or Travis Deiner worked at Mo's for the valet way back when as my sister was the bar manager. Just an example of the fact that they can get jobs.

They can and some still do.  This outright lie that keeps being perpetuated that the NCAA doesn’t allow students to get jobs is crazy.  Not only can they, but they are also allowed to be self employed and start their own business if they so desire.

Furthermore, why again is this only a basketball thing...the NCAA administers many more sports than that but the anti NCAA crowd apparently is incapable of recognizing this, all while saying the “NCAA” each time in their protest and broad generalization.

It’s amazing what NCAA athletes are able to do that the normal student can only dream of, but that is something not to be discussed apparently. 
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #221 on: August 20, 2019, 05:02:14 PM »
It's almost like it'd be a good idea to compensate their largest revenue earners fairly. 🤯

Really, let them go to all the non revenue sports and tell them they are cut, their opportunities gone.  Oh, and make sure to start with women athletes and the minorities, I’ll be it is a huge hit to those that will be decimated.  Finally, let us know how only the “largest” revenue generators will be compensated and the others won’t...Title IX is going to be great....and then let us know how the star player is compensated the same as the guy that only plays 2 minutes a game. 

Fly on a wall......
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Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #222 on: August 20, 2019, 07:06:20 PM »
So for Chicos to be correct Jae would have had to arrive at MU several credits short of zero.

Incorrect.  Here’s an example, guy has 20 credits of physical education and transfers to MU who has no Phys Ed major and thus all or nearly all of the credits do not transfer.  Now do the same calculus with any number of majors we do not carry and the credits are essentially of no transferable value to an MU degree.
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #223 on: August 20, 2019, 07:06:57 PM »
This is where I think you have it backwards. The mission of the university is to graduate students. Taking a student who mathematically could not graduate before their grant in aid ran out, goes against that mission.

For every Jae Crowder, there are literally hundreds of basketball recruits, many of whom are from just as disadvantaged backrounds as Jae, who have put in the work and earned a better academic standing. Why is it wrong for a university to consider a recurit's academics when selecting who to extend an offer to? Why does it "go against the historical mission of the university" to offer a scholarship to a student athlete from a disadvantaged background who can graduate over one who can't?

Amen
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #224 on: August 20, 2019, 07:07:26 PM »
Change thousands to hundreds and scratch the access to media and I got all those things as an "other student"

Not Amen.    Would love to hear the equivalency argument here.
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams