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Author Topic: DePaul hit with 3 years probation  (Read 15151 times)

MU82

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2019, 01:18:42 AM »
To put this in perspective UNC committed academic fraud and made up fake classes over multiple years and got nothing. DePaul has a prospect live with someone for two weeks to ensure that he does the work needed to become eligible and the coach gets three games.

Moral of the story if you fake an education it is better than actually helping someone do it themselves.

Yep.
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Spotcheck Billy

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2019, 08:02:03 AM »
Not much pain inflicted.

The silver lining in the cloud for DePaul, is this  probation may be enough of an embarrassment for the AD to get booted.


Or maybe DePaul will make her the scapegoat after the dust settles on this:
Brian Bowen Sr. testified that DePaul assistant Shane Heirman paid him $2,000 a month so that his son, Brian Bowen Jr., would attend La Lumiere High School in La Porte, Indiana, where Heirman was the head coach at the time.The five-star recruit had previously played in Saginaw, Michigan.
Brian Bowen Sr. also testified he was paid $5,000 to $8,000 per month to have his son play for Chicago's MeanStreets program, which was led by DePaul assistant Tim Anderson at the time. Bowen Sr. did not name Anderson by name. But he answered "yes" to questions from Dawkins' defense attorney, Steve Haney, about whether he accepted $1,500 from Anderson, another $1,400 to live in a condo by the lake while his son played at La Lumiere and $5,000 from former NFL player Tai Streets, who was affiliated with Meanstreets.
The school has said it has not been contacted by the NCAA regarding the FBI investigation.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2019, 10:02:49 AM »
For anyone that knows DePaul, it cannot be stressed enough that JLP is not going anywhere.  She is incredibly well connected through the school and alumni, and always falls back on the success of Olympic sports (especially women's sports) and the graduation rates of the student-athletes.  Additionally, she has many related contacts within the AD that firmly entrench her position until she chooses to step aside or gets reassigned to another high-ranking.  It is what it is.

The level of apathy for DePaul basketball in Chicago is remarkably high.  Everyone appears to just have accepted that DePaul will never come close to what it once was, which is just a shame.

Skatastrophy

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2019, 10:23:54 AM »
I wonder if this had anything to do with the probation....

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-depaul-dave-leitao-jean-lenti-ponsetto-protection-20181017-story.html

From the article: Carter allegedly asked repeatedly for meetings with Leitao via texts to assistant coach Tim Anderson in September and said he “would knock on (Leitao’s) door at home,” according to the petitions requesting the no-contact orders.

Sounds like Buzz Williams.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2019, 10:41:33 AM »
DePaul broke NCAA rules, UNC’s issues were not a violation of NCAA rules nor in the NCAA ‘s jurisdiction.

stop trying to inject facts into an emotional argument.  The fact is UNC's basically admitted their degrees are a joke in that all students could take these scam classes. It's their academic accreditation authority who should be sanctioning them. If they hadn't been able to show that such a large number of non-athletes were able to take the classes then it would have been a NCAA issue.
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BallBoy

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2019, 07:29:52 PM »
DePaul broke NCAA rules, UNC’s issues were not a violation of NCAA rules nor in the NCAA ‘s jurisdiction.

It is not a violation of NCAA rules but it is a violation of the core argument for not paying players. Is it worst to get an impermissible benefit or a meaningless education? 

Herman Cain

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dgies9156

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2019, 10:07:58 PM »
For anyone that knows DePaul, it cannot be stressed enough that JLP is not going anywhere.  She is incredibly well connected through the school and alumni, and always falls back on the success of Olympic sports (especially women's sports) and the graduation rates of the student-athletes.  Additionally, she has many related contacts within the AD that firmly entrench her position until she chooses to step aside or gets reassigned to another high-ranking.  It is what it is.

The level of apathy for DePaul basketball in Chicago is remarkably high.  Everyone appears to just have accepted that DePaul will never come close to what it once was, which is just a shame.

Which is just amazing. The amount of money that JLP leaves on the table that could be used for scholarships, university advancement and recruiting because the men's basketball program is the garbage pail of the Big east is amazing. And, now, she gets caught overseeing an NCAA scandal.

I wish if I sucked at my job, I could count on long-term support for my suckedness the way JLP can.

It's sad because the 1980s Marquette/DePaul games were something special -- even when we did not win.

RJax55

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2019, 10:47:47 PM »
Which is just amazing. The amount of money that JLP leaves on the table that could be used for scholarships, university advancement and recruiting because the men's basketball program is the garbage pail of the Big east is amazing. And, now, she gets caught overseeing an NCAA scandal.

I wish if I sucked at my job, I could count on long-term support for my suckedness the way JLP can.

It's sad because the 1980s Marquette/DePaul games were something special -- even when we did not win.

JLP's record speaks for itself.

However, the downfall of DePaul hoops and the program's missed opportunities started well prior to her tenure. Even when times were good, there was no forward thinking when it came to facilities, budget, culture, etc. The end of the Joey Meyer era was a complete debacle. The Pat Kennedy hire was abysmal.

Cheeks

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2019, 10:50:57 PM »
It is not a violation of NCAA rules but it is a violation of the core argument for not paying players. Is it worst to get an impermissible benefit or a meaningless education?

Why, not just ballplayers we’re taking the classes.  Should the regular students get paid, too?

Also, let’s not suggest every class they took was a scam class, it wasn’t, though one dept in particular had a majority of these classes.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

rocky_warrior

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2019, 03:47:28 AM »
Why, not just ballplayers we’re taking the classes.  Should the regular students get paid, too?

Well, regular students (even on scholarship) are allowed to make money from licensing their likeness, accepting gifts from alumni, and many other things that ballplayers are not allowed. So, I guess, yes.

BallBoy

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2019, 08:55:16 AM »
Why, not just ballplayers we’re taking the classes.  Should the regular students get paid, too?

Also, let’s not suggest every class they took was a scam class, it wasn’t, though one dept in particular had a majority of these classes.

Regular students taking the class is just a cover for what the classes were intended to be which is keep the team eligible. It is also dishonest to offer a class to regular students when intention isn’t to educate but be a fake class. Many of our higher educational institutions lost their way by becoming diploma mills and focusing less on education versus how to maximize profit.

My point is that in the case of DePaul they gave a recruit a benefit of living with someone for two weeks to make sure that he did the work to get in. Shame on them and they got caught. North Carolina setup a shame in order to allow the athletes not do the work but get the reward. The intent was the same but in the former the athlete still had to do it and in the latter proves that the NCAA is not about the student.

Cheeks

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2019, 09:05:35 AM »
Well, regular students (even on scholarship) are allowed to make money from licensing their likeness, accepting gifts from alumni, and many other things that ballplayers are not allowed. So, I guess, yes.

Regular students aren’t flown to 15 away trips a year, get on tv 30 times a year to showcase their talents as a job interview each time, have access to alumni that no other students have, etc, etc, etc.....so I guess it all equals out.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2019, 09:07:27 AM »
Regular students taking the class is just a cover for what the classes were intended to be which is keep the team eligible. It is also dishonest to offer a class to regular students when intention isn’t to educate but be a fake class. Many of our higher educational institutions lost their way by becoming diploma mills and focusing less on education versus how to maximize profit.

My point is that in the case of DePaul they gave a recruit a benefit of living with someone for two weeks to make sure that he did the work to get in. Shame on them and they got caught. North Carolina setup a shame in order to allow the athletes not do the work but get the reward. The intent was the same but in the former the athlete still had to do it and in the latter proves that the NCAA is not about the student.

This.

Most everybody could see through the "loophole" that UNC set up: Let's make the sham classes for "everybody." That way, when we funnel athlete after athlete after athlete into the classes, we can claim, "Hey, they weren't just for jocks."

The NCAA has at its disposal "lack of university control." If ever there was an example of this, it was the UNC case. They instead chose to hide behind a loophole and let UNC get away with far more egregious cheating -- overt academic fraud -- than any of the others being investigated and/or punished.
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Cheeks

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2019, 09:10:09 AM »
Regular students taking the class is just a cover for what the classes were intended to be which is keep the team eligible. It is also dishonest to offer a class to regular students when intention isn’t to educate but be a fake class. Many of our higher educational institutions lost their way by becoming diploma mills and focusing less on education versus how to maximize profit.

My point is that in the case of DePaul they gave a recruit a benefit of living with someone for two weeks to make sure that he did the work to get in. Shame on them and they got caught. North Carolina setup a shame in order to allow the athletes not do the work but get the reward. The intent was the same but in the former the athlete still had to do it and in the latter proves that the NCAA is not about the student.

I’m not condoning what they did or validating it, but I’m continually amused by the false analogy of what the NCAA did or didn’t do in this case.  Pure and simple, it was out of their purview....a common refrain of late.

As for the intentions of the classes, I think you are exaggerating the reality.  The entire team wasn’t taking the classes, some of the classes were also around prior to athletes enrolling in them.  It begs a question, should athletes be allowed to major in Phys Ed?  A very easy major, with some “sham” classes.  I could tick off a number of others.  If a school wants to do that, that is on the school and their academic reputation and accreditation.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2019, 09:50:54 AM »
A better way of saying it, UNC didn’t create sham classes in the dept of African and Afro American Studies to benefit student athletes.  The dept already existed along with many of the sham classes.  Eventually that grew to 200 classes in that department.  The athletic teams, as is the case at many schools, looked for easy majors or easy courses for some of their student athletes to increase their eligibility chances and that vehicle was an easy one for them to utilize.  One was not created for the means, but the means were used for the result they desired.  There is a reason why there was a physics class at MU called basketball physics, even though it had a majority of “regular” students.  Communications had that reputation.  Sport Management at Michigan.  Phys Ed at many schools.  Not saying any of the latter examples are sham classes, but coaches want their players eligible to play so some students and student athletes gravitate to certain courses.  For the same reason some students with a tough load or in need of a GPA boost also look for a course that is an “easy B or A”. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Herman Cain

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2019, 10:43:26 AM »
A better way of saying it, UNC didn’t create sham classes in the dept of African and Afro American Studies to benefit student athletes.  The dept already existed along with many of the sham classes.  Eventually that grew to 200 classes in that department.  The athletic teams, as is the case at many schools, looked for easy majors or easy courses for some of their student athletes to increase their eligibility chances and that vehicle was an easy one for them to utilize.  One was not created for the means, but the means were used for the result they desired.  There is a reason why there was a physics class at MU called basketball physics, even though it had a majority of “regular” students.  Communications had that reputation.  Sport Management at Michigan.  Phys Ed at many schools.  Not saying any of the latter examples are sham classes, but coaches want their players eligible to play so some students and student athletes gravitate to certain courses.  For the same reason some students with a tough load or in need of a GPA boost also look for a course that is an “easy B or A”.
The mistake UNC made was they did not properly oversee the administration of the easy classes. Most Universities,including MU, do a great job of this.  UNC essentially let the African American department, and a couple of people in the department who were big sports fan, administer a big chunk of their easy class portfolio, and the school turned a blind eye. So when a disgruntled former student athlete complained the whole system was exposed. If one reads the case files, it shows that the biggest out right abuser of the system by the way was the coach of the UNC Womans soccer team. It is not a coincidence that  their ladies have won 22 national titles in that sport.

Having 3 kids in division one sports I can confidently say that all schools have these set ups.  Most  administer with much more thoughtfulness than UNC did.
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wadesworld

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2019, 10:59:40 AM »
The mistake UNC made was they did not properly oversee the administration of the easy classes. Most Universities,including MU, do a great job of this.  UNC essentially let the African American department, and a couple of people in the department who were big sports fan, administer a big chunk of their easy class portfolio, and the school turned a blind eye. So when a disgruntled former student athlete complained the whole system was exposed. If one reads the case files, it shows that the biggest out right abuser of the system by the way was the coach of the UNC Womans soccer team. It is not a coincidence that  their ladies have won 22 national titles in that sport.

Having 3 kids in division one sports I can confidently say that all schools have these set ups.  Most  administer with much more thoughtfulness than UNC did.

The UNC women's soccer team won 22 national titles because they were taking fake classes?
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Herman Cain

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2019, 11:24:53 AM »
The UNC women's soccer team won 22 national titles because they were taking fake classes?
The coach was all about keeping players eligible.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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wadesworld

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2019, 11:27:15 AM »
The coach was all about keeping players eligible.

It's not hard to keep D1 college athletes eligible.  Especially a women's soccer team.
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Herman Cain

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2019, 12:23:08 PM »
It's not hard to keep D1 college athletes eligible.  Especially a women's soccer team.
Yes find the easiest courses possible.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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Benny B

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2019, 12:29:25 PM »
Well, regular students (even on scholarship) are allowed to make money from licensing their likeness, accepting gifts from alumni, and many other things that ballplayers are not allowed. So, I guess, yes.

Actually, athletes can license their likeness so long as they can demonstrate that any value of their likeness cannot reasonably be attributed to their participation in athletics.  Just like regular students.

Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Galway Eagle

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2019, 12:35:23 PM »
Actually, athletes can license their likeness so long as they can demonstrate that any value of their likeness cannot reasonably be attributed to their participation in athletics.  Just like regular students.

Except the NCAA is ridiculous about this. Like that one football player who had a YouTube channel and the NCAA said he was ineligible due to it
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GooooMarquette

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2019, 12:43:40 PM »
Actually, athletes can license their likeness so long as they can demonstrate that any value of their likeness cannot reasonably be attributed to their participation in athletics.  Just like regular students.


So a DePaul player could license his likeness, but a Marquette player couldn't?

Dawson Rental

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Re: DePaul hit with 3 years probation
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2019, 01:21:52 PM »

So a DePaul player could license his likeness, but a Marquette player couldn't?

Won the internet for today.

The truly sad thing is that all of this was for Levi Cook.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 02:21:16 PM by 4everCrean »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

 

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