[Paint Touches] MU All-Decade Team

[PaintTouches]

Pick 5 individual player seasons from this decade (2010-2019) and build the best possible team.

I broke it down by levels in the post, but don't think there will be too much variance among 4 of the 5. 

https://painttouches.com/2019/07/18/marquette-basketball-all-decade-team/

PG: Markus Howard ’19
SG: Darius Johnson-Odom ’12
SF: Jimmy Butler ’11
PF: Jae Crowder ’12
C: Lazar Hayward ’10

Who you got?

[Galway Eagle]

Exact same but someone is going to say they'd take Gardner.

In a game this team gets murdered if the opposing team is remotely tall.

[swoopem]

Maybe put Luke at the 5 just for height and matchups. There’s enough defense and athleticism on the floor with DJO, Jimmy, and Jae. I’d also probably start Lazar over Jimmy and Jimmy be the 6th man

[CTWarrior]

Maybe put Luke at the 5 just for height and matchups. There’s enough defense and athleticism on the floor with DJO, Jimmy, and Jae. I’d also probably start Lazar over Jimmy and Jimmy be the 6th man

I like the team as is but calling Hayward a center is cheating a little, since I suspect he was never listed as such in his 4 years.  He was so much better than the actual centers to be considered, it is acceptable to me.  Since they are working on single season, Henry Ellenson at C would work for me, even though he was technically a F too. 

I disagree that a tall team would whip that line up, as Crowder, Butler and Hayward would get their fair share of rebounds and were strong enough to make things difficult for taller players.

[#UnleashSean]

Pg:Wowsey/Junior
Sg: Blue/howard
Sf: JFB/Hayward
F: Crowder/Automatic
C: Henry/Gardner

[brewcity77]

Exact same but someone is going to say they'd take Gardner.

In a game this team gets murdered if the opposing team is remotely tall.

This is almost exclusively focused on offense. If I have Howard, DJO, Jimmy Butler, & Jae Crowder, give me 2018-19 Theo John at the 5. Based on the defensive numbers Paint Touches shared a week or two ago, it's an easy call.

[Marcus92]

Are we voting for the best 5 single-season performances, or trying to assemble the best team? If it's the latter, I'd go with:

G Junior Cadougan (2011-12, 6.3 ppg, 5.4 apg, 2.1 rpg)
G Markus Howard (2016-17, 13.2 ppg, 2.3 apg, 2.2 rpg)
F Jimmy Butler (2010-11, 15.7 ppg, 2.3 apg, 6.1 rpg)
F Jae Crowder (2011-12, 17.5 ppg, 2.1 apg, 8.4 rpg)
C Lazar Hayward (2009-10, 18.1 ppg, 1.5 apg, 7.5 rpg)

G Vander Blue (2012-13, 14.8 ppg, 1.8 apg, 3.2 rpg)
F Jamil Wilson (2012-13, 9.7 ppg, 1.7 apg, 4.9 rpg)
C Theo John (2018-19, 5.5 ppg, 0.5 apg, 4.9 rpg, 2.1 bpg)

Favoring quickness, rebounding and defense where possible. Most could play multiple positions, as well. Junior cracks the lineup mainly because with all that offensive talent, you need a good distributor.

This is Jae's team. Hyper-efficient freshman Markus splits his minutes roughly 50-50 at the 2 with Vander, depending on matchups. Same goes for Lazar and Theo at the 5. While I wouldn't mind having Sam on the bench, I chose Jamil as the more versatile two-way player.

I enjoyed watching players like Devante and Luke while they were at Marquette. But there's no way they make my all-decade team -- just too slow at a position that should be the anchor of the defense.

[PaintTouches]

This is almost exclusively focused on offense. If I have Howard, DJO, Jimmy Butler, & Jae Crowder, give me 2018-19 Theo John at the 5. Based on the defensive numbers Paint Touches shared a week or two ago, it's an easy call.

Very true, but Jae (playing C 58% of the time), actually had a better defensive season in 2012 than Theo. I'll take a combo of him, Zar and Jimmy (all of whom spent time at the C those seasons and posted better or as good D numbers) over a negative offensive presence every time. I'm one of the biggest THEOlogists out there, but his OPIPM was in the bottom 30 of all MU players since 2011.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I like the team as is but calling Hayward a center is cheating a little, since I suspect he was never listed as such in his 4 years.  He was so much better than the actual centers to be considered, it is acceptable to me.  Since they are working on single season, Henry Ellenson at C would work for me, even though he was technically a F too. 

I disagree that a tall team would whip that line up, as Crowder, Butler and Hayward would get their fair share of rebounds and were strong enough to make things difficult for taller players.

Positions no matta.  I'd have no problem with Hayward, Ellenson, or even Sam Hauser  (had he not transferred) at "C".

I'd lean Ellenson for the size.  I also project Ellenson would be much more efficient if he was surrounded by Howard, DJO, Butler, and Crowder.

Howard
DJO
Butler
Crowder
Ellenson

[brewcity77]

Junior Cadougan in any incarnation doesn't belong near an all-decade team. If the rationale is playing the point, 2014-15 Carlino, 2017-18 Rowsey, and 2018-19 Howard were all better.

At best, assuming you aren't repeating players, Junior should be fifth behind Buycks as well. As a scoring threat, Junior was about equal to Derrick, he was a turnover machine, and a mediocre defender.

[Marcus92]

By the numbers, yes. But Junior was simply a winner, leading MU to a 53-17 (.757) record in his two seasons as a starter -- including appearances in the Sweet 16 and Elite Eight. Buzz himself said "I've always thought Junior was the key to our team."

I'm not saying he was a great point guard. I don't think Marquette has had one in the past 10 years. But he's the best creator we've seen during that period, and a good defender (unlike Rowsey). If you actually had a team with Markus, Jimmy, Jae and Lazar, you don't need more offensive production; you just need someone to get them the ball. If I were the coach, I'd prefer Markus off the ball rather than running the point.

No way I'd ever compare Junior to Derrick. Buycks is an interesting possibility, but not much of a creator at MU. Same story for Carlino.

https://www.zagsblog.com/2012/09/26/buzz-williams-expecting-big-things-from-junior-cadougan/

[Herman Cain]

Pick 5 individual player seasons from this decade (2010-2019) and build the best possible team.

I broke it down by levels in the post, but don't think there will be too much variance among 4 of the 5. 

https://painttouches.com/2019/07/18/marquette-basketball-all-decade-team/

PG: Markus Howard ’19
SG: Darius Johnson-Odom ’12
SF: Jimmy Butler ’11
PF: Jae Crowder ’12
C: Lazar Hayward ’10

Who you got?

I really like this lineup. Lazar was a tremendous college player. Really enjoyed everything about the way he played.

[Jockey]

I love Theo, but to put him in the top 5 players of the last decade..........

Patently ridiculous, to me.

[MuMark]

Positions no matta.  I'd have no problem with Hayward, Ellenson, or even Sam Hauser  (had he not transferred) at "C".

I'd lean Ellenson for the size.  I also project Ellenson would be much more efficient if he was surrounded by Howard, DJO, Butler, and Crowder.

Howard
DJO
Butler
Crowder
Ellenson

Not to mention whether listed or not he basically played center for MU just about his whole senior season.

[#UnleashSean]

People not picking ellenson at all? Dude took what would have been the worst mu team in 20 something years and made them somewhat competent.

[oldwarrior81]

Henry put up some pretty good numbers to be left off.

17 pts and 9.7 reb (only the easy ones?)

The last guy in that neighborhood over the years was David Boone 30 years earlier (15.3 & 10.6)

Prior to that it was Bo, Lucas, McNeill and Chones.

[Herman Cain]

Henry put up some pretty good numbers to be left off.

17 pts and 9.7 reb (only the easy ones?)

The last guy in that neighborhood over the years was David Boone 30 years earlier (15.3 & 10.6)

Prior to that it was Bo, Lucas, McNeill and Chones.

They made the team by position.

Jae was the PF and he was Big East player of the year and Second team All America and the team went to Sweet 16.

Lazar was the center and had a great season and led the team to the tournament .

Henry has a good season but not up to the level of those two .

[wadesworld]

They made the team by position.

Jae was the PF and he was Big East player of the year and Second team All America and the team went to Sweet 16.

Lazar was the center and had a great season and led the team to the tournament .

Henry has a good season but not up to the level of those two .

Sounds like a cancer.

[Cheeks]

People not picking ellenson at all? Dude took what would have been the worst mu team in 20 something years and made them somewhat competent.

The team stood around and watched him shoot.  #hardpass  Some of us picked bust in NBA before he was drafted.

[tower912]

Blue over DJO.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Markus is the only one of the five who would be allowed to enroll at MU today by the braintrust.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Markus is the only one of the five who would be allowed to enroll at MU today by the braintrust.

I think Jae is the only one who wouldn’t be.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think Jae is the only one who wouldn’t be.

Not a JUCO signed since Buzz left is not a coincidence. Lazar and his ND Prep record is definitely a no. Vander, Junior and Gardner are definite no's. Maybe Jimmy but no way on DJO as his records weren't even in order.

Not to mention that Wojo doesn't have the JUCO connections Buzz has.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Not a JUCO signed since Buzz left is not a coincidence. Lazar and his ND Prep record is definitely a no. Vander, Junior and Gardner are definite no's. Maybe Jimmy but no way on DJO as his records weren't even in order.

Not to mention that Wojo doesn't have the JUCO connections Buzz has.

Jimmy was a full qualifier out of HS.  Went JUCO for more exposure.  I suspect that he'd be a "yes."

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

DJO would have been a full qualifier as well. His paperwork just got screwed up.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Again, you guys can keep your head in the sand back to the Buzz/Crean eras, but those players would NOT be members of MUBB today. Fact.

You can prove me wrong when there is a JUCO on the roster. Every coach since at least Al had JUCOs on their rosters. Six years in, nada for Wojo. Not a coincidence.

[wadesworld]

Not a JUCO signed since Buzz left is not a coincidence. Lazar and his ND Prep record is definitely a no. Vander, Junior and Gardner are definite no's. Maybe Jimmy but no way on DJO as his records weren't even in order.

Not to mention that Wojo doesn't have the JUCO connections Buzz has.

Lol, what?  You realize Symir was at a prep school, right?  So that eliminates your argument against Lazar.

Why would Junior, Vander, or Gardner not be allowed to come to Marquette?

[MuMark]

Lol, what?  You realize Symir was at a prep school, right?  So that eliminates your argument against Lazar.

Why would Junior, Vander, or Gardner not be allowed to come to Marquette?

I think Symir and Lazar went to prep school for different reasons.......and not all prep schools are created equal.

Vermont Academy is not Notre Dame Prep.....'.at least that is my understanding........if I am mistaken someone can correct me.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think Symir and Lazar went to prep school for different reasons.......and not all prep schools are created equal.

Vermont Academy is not Notre Dame Prep.....'.at least that is my understanding........if I am mistaken someone can correct me.

Lazar went to post-graduate prep school (5th year). ND Prep is a basketball factory for academic at risk players who wanted to avoid two years of JUCO.  Also home to academic savant Todd Mayo.

Hell, Markus (and Keefe) went to Prep schools.  Hell, Wade's went to MUHS College Prep too. Who knew?

[Lennys Tap]

Lazar went to post-graduate prep school (5th year). ND Prep is a basketball factory for academic at risk players who wanted to avoid two years of JUCO.  Also home to academic savant Todd Mayo.

Hell, Markus (and Keefe) went to Prep schools.  Hell, Wade's went to MUHS College Prep too. Who knew?

Good stuff, Doc. Everybody's preppin' for something.

[wadesworld]

Lazar went to post-graduate prep school (5th year). ND Prep is a basketball factory for academic at risk players who wanted to avoid two years of JUCO.  Also home to academic savant Todd Mayo.

Hell, Markus (and Keefe) went to Prep schools.  Hell, Wade's went to MUHS College Prep too. Who knew?

You realize there’s a difference between Vermont Academy and Marquette University High School, right?

One plays a national basketball schedule and has seniors who are regularly 19 and 20 years old. The other does not. I’ll let you decide which is which.

But sure.  Marquette High is a prep school as is ND Prep.  Lol.

You also realize that when Symir committed to Marquette he had originally been part of the class of 2019, then reclassified to the class of 2020 (would've been his 5th year) and reclassified back to the class of 2019 AFTER committing to Marquette.

He moved from Syracuse, NY where he lived and started high school to his prep school 5 hours away.

I'm still waiting to hear why Vander, Davante, and Junior couldn't have come to Marquette these days...

[Newsdreams]

Real prep schools are not what are being talked about this is what real prep schools are
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Schools_Association

[Nukem2]

Real prep schools are not what are being talked about this is what real prep schools are
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Schools_Association

Derrick Wilson went to Hotchkiss.

[Dr. Blackheart]

You realize there’s a difference between Vermont Academy and Marquette University High School, right?

One plays a national basketball schedule and has seniors who are regularly 19 and 20 years old. The other does not. I’ll let you decide which is which.

But sure.  Marquette High is a prep school as is ND Prep.  Lol.

You also realize that when Symir committed to Marquette he had originally been part of the class of 2019, then reclassified to the class of 2020 (would've been his 5th year) and reclassified back to the class of 2019 AFTER committing to Marquette.

He moved from Syracuse, NY where he lived and started high school to his prep school 5 hours away.

I'm still waiting to hear why Vander, Davante, and Junior couldn't have come to Marquette these days...

Why are you waiting for it? Odd, your anxiety. I am simply stunned you are arguing that MUBB hasn't changed its academic standards with all that's happened.

If you think correspondence school credits are accepted under the current regime, you are mistaken.  Junior attended three high schools, his last was the ND Prep of Texas that included him and DeAndre Jordan.

Also, Symir is 18 and reclassified. He isn't a 21 year old frosh like Todd Mayo.

This is so obvious my dog gets it. Maybe MU Prep should recall your diploma? 

[wadesworld]

Why are you waiting for it? Odd, your anxiety. I am simply stunned you are arguing that MUBB hasn't changed its academic standards with all that's happened.

If you think correspondence school credits are accepted under the current regime, you are mistaken.  Junior attended three high schools, his last was the ND Prep of Texas that included him and DeAndre Jordan.

Also, Symir is 18 and reclassified. He isn't a 21 year old frosh like Todd Mayo.

This is so obvious my dog gets it. Maybe MU Prep should recall your diploma?

So the goalposts shifted. Good idea. Nobody said the academic standards haven’t changed. You’re the one who claimed not one person listed could come to Marquette today. Which is obviously wrong. That’s vastly different than saying “the academic standards have changed.”

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Jae is the only one who would not be allowed today. Would the others not be targeted by the current staff?  Couldn't say for sure

[Dr. Blackheart]

So the goalposts shifted. Good idea. Nobody said the academic standards haven’t changed. You’re the one who claimed not one person listed could come to Marquette today. Which is obviously wrong. That’s vastly different than saying “the academic standards have changed.”

I shifted no goals posts. I said four out of the five wouldn't even be allowed to play basketball or attend MU today due to their academics. It is a fact that they wouldn't be here today.

You took it in the weird direction of the definition of prep schools. Find a new thread to make nonsense out of.

[wadesworld]

I shifted no goals posts. I said four out of the five wouldn't even be allowed to play basketball or attend MU today due to their academics. It is a fact that they wouldn't be here today.

You took it in the weird direction of the definition of prep schools. Find a new thread to make nonsense out of.

“It’s a fact.”  Lol. Yet you still can’t explain why. Mainly because it’s nowhere near a fact.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

“It’s a fact.”  Lol. Yet you still can’t explain why. Mainly because it’s nowhere near a fact.

[Newsdreams]

Derrick Wilson went to Hotchkiss.

Yes I know I went to NMH. Those are real college preparatory schools, real prep schools. Extremely hard academics.

[MU82]

But hey ... how 'bout that all-decade team?

Yet another Scoop Classic thread!

[Cheeks]

Again, you guys can keep your head in the sand back to the Buzz/Crean eras, but those players would NOT be members of MUBB today. Fact.

You can prove me wrong when there is a JUCO on the roster. Every coach since at least Al had JUCOs on their rosters. Six years in, nada for Wojo. Not a coincidence.

Wojo recruited several JUCOs.  Fact.

[Cheeks]

Why are you waiting for it? Odd, your anxiety. I am simply stunned you are arguing that MUBB hasn't changed its academic standards with all that's happened.

If you think correspondence school credits are accepted under the current regime, you are mistaken.  Junior attended three high schools, his last was the ND Prep of Texas that included him and DeAndre Jordan.

Also, Symir is 18 and reclassified. He isn't a 21 year old frosh like Todd Mayo.

This is so obvious my dog gets it. Maybe MU Prep should recall your diploma?

Almost sounds like you are saying MU gave Buzz some leash and Buzz f’d up as CEO of his team and couldn’t control his guys.  If only Buzz could have not blown that role, but he did.  Now TAMU can have fun with his boys.

[Cheeks]

Why are you waiting for it? Odd, your anxiety. I am simply stunned you are arguing that MUBB hasn't changed its academic standards with all that's happened.

If you think correspondence school credits are accepted under the current regime, you are mistaken.  Junior attended three high schools, his last was the ND Prep of Texas that included him and DeAndre Jordan.

Also, Symir is 18 and reclassified. He isn't a 21 year old frosh like Todd Mayo.

This is so obvious my dog gets it. Maybe MU Prep should recall your diploma?

Buzz took a 21 year old frosh....I wonder how that recruiting effort went down and who had one over a barrel.....ah I wonder. 

[tower912]

Crowder
Butler
Ellenson (the good one)
Blue
Howard

[🏀]

Crowder
Butler
Ellenson (the good one)
Blue
Howard

This is the best answer.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Buzz took a 21 year old frosh....I wonder how that recruiting effort went down and who had one over a barrel.....ah I wonder.

Maybe CTC had the same or longer leash, hey? Wade, Lazar, Trend, Hazel, Saunders, Lil Bit just to name a few. 

[Herman Cain]

This is the best answer.

Lazar>Ellenson

[Cheeks]

Maybe CTC had the same or longer leash, hey? Wade, Lazar, Trend, Hazel, Saunders, Lil Bit just to name a few.

CTC,s guys didn’t get us on the front page of the Chicago Tribune for all the wrong reasons.  Nor did he get himself suspended, nor did he have his assistant lie to the AD during an internal investigation, etc,etc.  I guess CTC was just better at hiding it or not being as stupid publicly.

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz took a 21 year old frosh....I wonder how that recruiting effort went down and who had one over a barrel.....ah I wonder.

??? I wonder wtf this means...I wonder why it's always innuendo with you and no facts...I wonder why your promises of future shoes dropping never happened...I wonder why you crave attention...and affirmation...on a freakin' message board...ah, I wonder.

[Lennys Tap]

CTC,s guys didn’t get us on the front page of the Chicago Tribune for all the wrong reasons.  Nor did he get himself suspended, nor did he have his assistant lie to the AD during an internal investigation, etc,etc.  I guess CTC was just better at hiding it or not being as stupid publicly.

CTC had an AD and a president who had his back and helped cover his and players tracks. Buzz had an AD and a president who were unqualified clowns who felt their job was to "get" him. Do you honestly think that if one of Crean's assistants who have given a recruit a t-shirt or a ride home that Cords/Wild would have turned it into The Inquisition?  Please.

[tower912]

Lazar>Ellenson

I would bring Lazar, DJO, and Theo off the bench and win a National Championship.

[Newsdreams]

I would bring Lazar, DJO, and Theo off the bench and win a National Championship.

Crapshoot

[Herman Cain]

I would bring Lazar, DJO, and Theo off the bench and win a National Championship.

Ellenson was not a team player. The other three guys you mentioned are.

[Cheeks]

Lenny

Did the administration clamp down after CTC or after Buzz?  What straws broke the camel’s back and who was the coach? 

Good day sir.

[🏀]

Lazar>Ellenson

Tough call, but I think Henry would thrive more in that lineup than Lazar.

[Uncle Rico]

Tough call, but I think Henry would thrive more in that lineup than Lazar.

I think Lazar could thrive in any lineup.  Not denigrating Henry who was/is probably a better overall player but Lazar was more impactful at Marquette

[brewcity77]

I think Lazar could thrive in any lineup.  Not denigrating Henry who was/is probably a better overall player but Lazar was more impactful at Marquette

It's an interesting debate. Lazar certainly could. Guy was what, 6'5" and defending centers that had 5-7 inches on him regularly? He was one of the highest basketball IQ players I can recall and could play anything from 2-5. He was just a really, really good college basketball player.

Henry wasn't as smart on either end, wasn't near as good a defender, but he was far more a physical presence and was a matchup nightmare for defenses because he was a 6'11" physical presence that could put it on the floor and take you inside or stretch defenders to the arc. While Lazar was more polished, we also remember him as an experienced senior who was old for his class due to playing a prep year. Freshman Henry vs Freshman Lazar, there is zero doubt that you take Ellenson every single time. Freshman Henry vs Senior Lazar, there's a debate. Had we ever seen Senior Henry, I don't think there would be a debate.

[Galway Eagle]

It's an interesting debate. Lazar certainly could. Guy was what, 6'5" and defending centers that had 5-7 inches on him regularly? He was one of the highest basketball IQ players I can recall and could play anything from 2-5. He was just a really, really good college basketball player.

Henry wasn't as smart on either end, wasn't near as good a defender, but he was far more a physical presence and was a matchup nightmare for defenses because he was a 6'11" physical presence that could put it on the floor and take you inside or stretch defenders to the arc. While Lazar was more polished, we also remember him as an experienced senior who was old for his class due to playing a prep year. Freshman Henry vs Freshman Lazar, there is zero doubt that you take Ellenson every single time. Freshman Henry vs Senior Lazar, there's a debate. Had we ever seen Senior Henry, I don't think there would be a debate.

I think you're giving Henry wayyyy too much credit for being able to stretch defenders to the arc. Sure he took those shots but he couldn't hit them to save his life. Lazar actually could though. And while we havent seen senior Henry, he hasnt looked ;ike hes addressed any of his gaps since hes been in the NBA. I'd take jr and sr Lazar over freshman Henry.

[Herman Cain]

I think you're giving Henry wayyyy too much credit for being able to stretch defenders to the arc. Sure he took those shots but he couldn't hit them to save his life. Lazar actually could though. And while we havent seen senior Henry, he hasnt looked ;ike hes addressed any of his gaps since hes been in the NBA. I'd take jr and sr Lazar over freshman Henry.

I agree with this analysis.

[brewcity77]

I think you're giving Henry wayyyy too much credit for being able to stretch defenders to the arc. Sure he took those shots but he couldn't hit them to save his life. Lazar actually could though. And while we havent seen senior Henry, he hasnt looked ;ike hes addressed any of his gaps since hes been in the NBA. I'd take jr and sr Lazar over freshman Henry.

Freshman year Henry hit 28.8% beyond the arc with 30 makes. Freshman year Lazar hit 20.8% beyond the arc with 10 makes. Sure, Lazar was a career 35.7% shooter from three, but his 34.9% accuracy as a senior was decent but not great. Henry was better inside the arc and they were pretty comparable in terms of eFG% (48.0 for Henry, 49.5 for senior Lazar) and Henry was the better rebounder and shot-blocker.

Henry was a good enough three-point shooter that you had to defend him out to the arc. Also, for all-decade, it would have to be senior year Lazar. I wouldn't disagree with people that took Lazar as the better overall player, and I'd probably take Lazar as the better overall player as well. But Henry did have length, rebounding, and shot-altering ability that Lazar simply couldn't match. Because of that, you can make an argument for either of them, especially as Henry could hit those shots. He wasn't quite as good as senior year Lazar, but he was good enough that he had to be defended there.

[jsglow]

Jae is the only one who would not be allowed today. Would the others not be targeted by the current staff?  Couldn't say for sure

TAMU has it exactly correct as I understand it. The only policy change I am aware of is the prohibition against signing guys who simply cannot graduate by the time their scholarships expires. It was deemed  'using' someone for basketball. That said, everyone at MU is very proud of Jae and his accomplishments.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The NCAAs also had a say in it.  Junior’s high school faced the same scrutiny. And MU isn’t accepting correspondence classes any more (which also came under scrutiny).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--ncaa-investigating-basketball-powerhouse-prep-school.html

[Galway Eagle]

Freshman year Henry hit 28.8% beyond the arc with 30 makes. Freshman year Lazar hit 20.8% beyond the arc with 10 makes. Sure, Lazar was a career 35.7% shooter from three, but his 34.9% accuracy as a senior was decent but not great. Henry was better inside the arc and they were pretty comparable in terms of eFG% (48.0 for Henry, 49.5 for senior Lazar) and Henry was the better rebounder and shot-blocker.

Henry was a good enough three-point shooter that you had to defend him out to the arc. Also, for all-decade, it would have to be senior year Lazar. I wouldn't disagree with people that took Lazar as the better overall player, and I'd probably take Lazar as the better overall player as well. But Henry did have length, rebounding, and shot-altering ability that Lazar simply couldn't match. Because of that, you can make an argument for either of them, especially as Henry could hit those shots. He wasn't quite as good as senior year Lazar, but he was good enough that he had to be defended there.

I don't personally think 28% is respectable enough to even be scouted. I'm sure Theo could hit that much if he worked at it.

Definitely was remembering Lazar as a better shooter than he apparently was though.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't personally think 28% is respectable enough to even be scouted. I'm sure Theo could hit that much if he worked at it.

Theo can’t hit anything more than a layup. No chance he could hit threes at a nearly 30% clip.

[Galway Eagle]

Theo can’t hit anything more than a layup. No chance he could hit threes at a nearly 30% clip.

It was sarcastic hyperbole

[brewcity77]

I don't personally think 28% is respectable enough to even be scouted. I'm sure Theo could hit that much if he worked at it.

Definitely was remembering Lazar as a better shooter than he apparently was though.

That wasn't a team blessed with three point shooters, no one shot over 40% and Henry was second on the team in made threes. He hit multiple threes 7 times in a game. In those games, Marquette was 7-0. I get that he wasn't Howard or Hauser, but unless you aren't guarding the arc period, you guard that guy at the arc.

[wadesworld]

Lazar also had the benefit of having Dominic, Wesley, and Jerel slashing and being the 4th player on the opponent's scouting report through his junior season.  And even his senior year, while he was the man, he had junior year Jimmy and sophomore DJO next to him.

Henry was first, second, third, and fourth on the opponent's scouting report from day 1 at Marquette.

[Lennys Tap]

TAMU has it exactly correct as I understand it. The only policy change I am aware of is the prohibition against signing guys who simply cannot graduate by the time their scholarships expires. It was deemed  'using' someone for basketball. That said, everyone at MU is very proud of Jae and his accomplishments.

Marquette didn't "use" Jae. On the contrary, Jae, as Al used to say, "used basketball". He matured as a person and a player at MU and now he's a multi millionaire.

[Galway Eagle]

Lazar also had the benefit of having Dominic, Wesley, and Jerel slashing and being the 4th player on the opponent's scouting report through his junior season.  And even his senior year, while he was the man, he had junior year Jimmy and sophomore DJO next to him.

Henry was first, second, third, and fourth on the opponent's scouting report from day 1 at Marquette.

I disagree. I think Lazar's 16.3ppg and 8.6rpg more than warranted being on par with Wes's 18.5ppg and 5.7rpg or James' 11ppg and 5apg.

I also think that if you're including DJO as a sophomore at 13ppg 2.6rpg and 2.4apg, as being on top the scouting report that you should give Haanif (11.8ppg, 3.4rpg, 2.2apg), Duane (11.6ppg, 2.6rpg. 2.5apg) and Luke (12.1ppg, 6.2rpg)  their dues. No there wasn't a Jimmy butler next to Henry but there was multiple "DJOs"

Chances are I'm overvaluing Lazar, he's my favorite player since I became a fan but I saw him through the eyes of a HS senior & freshman in college. However, I maintain that Henry did not have a good outside shot, made some really god awful plays and given how he did in the NBA/GLeague he likely had already hit his peak and wouldn't have progressed hugely as time went on and the talent caught up to him.

[Herman Cain]

I disagree. I think Lazar's 16.3ppg and 8.6rpg more than warranted being on par with Wes's 18.5ppg and 5.7rpg or James' 11ppg and 5apg.

I also think that if you're including DJO as a sophomore at 13ppg 2.6rpg and 2.4apg, as being on top the scouting report that you should give Haanif (11.8ppg, 3.4rpg, 2.2apg), Duane (11.6ppg, 2.6rpg. 2.5apg) and Luke (12.1ppg, 6.2rpg)  their dues. No there wasn't a Jimmy butler next to Henry but there was multiple "DJOs"

Chances are I'm overvaluing Lazar, he's my favorite player since I became a fan but I saw him through the eyes of a HS senior & freshman in college. However, I maintain that Henry did not have a good outside shot, made some really god awful plays and given how he did in the NBA/GLeague he likely had already hit his peak and wouldn't have progressed hugely as time went on and the talent caught up to him.

In my world there is no such thing as overvaluing Lazar. He was always undervalued. A total team player who did what it took to win and still put up big stats. We need more Lazars .

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

By the numbers, yes. But Junior was simply a winner, leading MU to a 53-17 (.757) record in his two seasons as a starter -- including appearances in the Sweet 16 and Elite Eight. Buzz himself said "I've always thought Junior was the key to our team."

They would have won even more with a better point guard.  Couldn't shoot and an absolute liability on defense.  Markus and DJO in the backcourt would run over any team on which junior starts.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I disagree. I think Lazar's 16.3ppg and 8.6rpg more than warranted being on par with Wes's 18.5ppg and 5.7rpg or James' 11ppg and 5apg.

I also think that if you're including DJO as a sophomore at 13ppg 2.6rpg and 2.4apg, as being on top the scouting report that you should give Haanif (11.8ppg, 3.4rpg, 2.2apg), Duane (11.6ppg, 2.6rpg. 2.5apg) and Luke (12.1ppg, 6.2rpg)  their dues. No there wasn't a Jimmy butler next to Henry but there was multiple "DJOs"

Chances are I'm overvaluing Lazar, he's my favorite player since I became a fan but I saw him through the eyes of a HS senior & freshman in college. However, I maintain that Henry did not have a good outside shot, made some really god awful plays and given how he did in the NBA/GLeague he likely had already hit his peak and wouldn't have progressed hugely as time went on and the talent caught up to him.

Lazar Hayward was miles better than Henry Ellenson.  I like Henry, but Lazar would have wiped the floor with him.