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Author Topic: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level  (Read 3098 times)

MuMark

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OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« on: July 16, 2019, 01:42:50 PM »
I think a lot of this many of us knew ......still interesting to get it directly from a coach.....i.e. Offers don't really mean that much .

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/lunch-is-for-cowards-inside-the-grind-of-a-day-recruiting-at-the-peach-jam-alongside-a-mid-major-coach/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Lazar's Headband

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2019, 02:11:07 PM »
I think a lot of this many of us knew ......still interesting to get it directly from a coach.....i.e. Offers don't really mean that much .

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/lunch-is-for-cowards-inside-the-grind-of-a-day-recruiting-at-the-peach-jam-alongside-a-mid-major-coach/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Best part of the article:

"I keep texting my boss," a high-major assistant in good spirits says. "He's probably sitting at an Arby's right now, plotting."

Waldo Jeffers

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2019, 03:08:53 PM »
all these years after recruiting killed Skip Prosser it sounds like "same as it ever was"

jesmu84

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2019, 04:04:01 PM »
This seems especially brutal:

Quote
The kids play it almost as much as the coaches do. As recruiting has evolved, it's why fewer and fewer players commit before November of their senior season. They're hoping for any chance to get a call from that school that's a little better than the ones that have been recruiting them for the past 12-24 months.

Imagine being a head coach and recruiting a kid hard for 2 years. Late fall of his senior season, a school slightly "ahead" of your program extends an offer out of nowhere and the kid commits to them. Brutal

Waldo Jeffers

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2019, 04:24:17 PM »
This seems especially brutal:

Imagine being a head coach and recruiting a kid hard for 2 years. Late fall of his senior season, a school slightly "ahead" of your program extends an offer out of nowhere and the kid commits to them. Brutal

Happens on Buckyville all the time, really peeves them when Richard Pitino offers just after Gard does.

brewcity77

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2019, 04:26:23 PM »
I think Marquette can be a victim of this as well. Joel Embiid blew up just in time for Kansas to get the commit. Charles Matthews seemed like a lock until Kentucky swooped in. For Wojo, guys like Jordan Nwora, Jalen Wilson, and maybe now Dawson Garcia come to mind.

Herman Cain

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2019, 04:29:27 PM »
Well written article. I believe the new recruiting calendar and formats will  help the mid and low majors. For example , the recent high school events in NY and Philly were well received and surfaced a lot of under the radar kids.
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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 09:37:31 PM »
I think Marquette can be a victim of this as well. Joel Embiid blew up just in time for Kansas to get the commit. Charles Matthews seemed like a lock until Kentucky swooped in. For Wojo, guys like Jordan Nwora, Jalen Wilson, and maybe now Dawson Garcia come to mind.
Embiid visit went bad

Billy Hoyle

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2019, 09:38:54 PM »
This seems especially brutal:

Imagine being a head coach and recruiting a kid hard for 2 years. Late fall of his senior season, a school slightly "ahead" of your program extends an offer out of nowhere and the kid commits to them. Brutal

Crean recruited Bobby Fraser for two years. He went to a tourney at UNC, had a monster weekend, and ends up getting offered by Roy Williams and Fraser is a Tar Heel. 

A couple mid and low major D1 coaches I’ve spoken with are not fans of the final weekend “College Basketball Academy” everts. They worry under the radar kids they’re on will get nominated and noticed by other, bigger programs. In fact, one low major school’s staff deliberately nominated a kid they were going to lose out on to a conference rival so he’d have the chance to be seen by others. Other coaches aren’t nominating kids to keep them from being noticed.  The life of the mid and low major...
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dgies9156

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2019, 10:23:06 PM »
Boo Hoo!

Sorry but there's a second perspective here -- that of the student athlete.

Yeah, coaching is hard work and recruiting is the sales and marketing of coaching. God only knows how many of us in here who work at sales and marketing have had a prospect only to realize we didn't. Recruits are the same way.

In the end, it is what the best interest of the student athlete will be. I mean, yeah, I think everyone should aspire to Marquette but I'm not foolish to think that my experience at MU will be the same experience everyone has.

You follow a student for a long time. You nurture the relationship and think you have him when Roy Williams, Coach K or someone else swoops in and, presto, you have nothing. But the student does what's in the best interest of the student. Period. Life gooes on folks. If you don't like that risk, don't go into coaching!

StillAWarrior

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2019, 07:49:46 AM »
Crean recruited Bobby Fraser for two years. He went to a tourney at UNC, had a monster weekend, and ends up getting offered by Roy Williams and Fraser is a Tar Heel. 

A couple mid and low major D1 coaches I’ve spoken with are not fans of the final weekend “College Basketball Academy” everts. They worry under the radar kids they’re on will get nominated and noticed by other, bigger programs. In fact, one low major school’s staff deliberately nominated a kid they were going to lose out on to a conference rival so he’d have the chance to be seen by others. Other coaches aren’t nominating kids to keep them from being noticed.  The life of the mid and low major...

Not on the recruiting trail, but similar issue:  my nephew plays soccer for a smallish D1 team.  His freshman year he played every game -- led the team in minutes played (97% of available minutes).  He had a great season and was one of the team's top players by any measure and one of the top freshman in the conference.  The coach didn't even nominate him for any conference honors and actually told him that he doesn't nominate freshman because he thinks that if they receive such honors they're more likely to be recruited to transfer.  "Gee, thanks Coach."
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panda

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 08:10:31 AM »
I’m not going to shed a tear for the D1 hoops coach who is making, at a minimum, mid six figures while he complains about kids getting better opportunities at bigger schools.

Having said all of that, very cool article!

Marcus92

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2019, 08:13:08 AM »
Boo Hoo!

Sorry but there's a second perspective here -- that of the student athlete.

Yeah, coaching is hard work and recruiting is the sales and marketing of coaching. God only knows how many of us in here who work at sales and marketing have had a prospect only to realize we didn't. Recruits are the same way.

In the end, it is what the best interest of the student athlete will be. I mean, yeah, I think everyone should aspire to Marquette but I'm not foolish to think that my experience at MU will be the same experience everyone has.

You follow a student for a long time. You nurture the relationship and think you have him when Roy Williams, Coach K or someone else swoops in and, presto, you have nothing. But the student does what's in the best interest of the student. Period. Life gooes on folks. If you don't like that risk, don't go into coaching!

Agree 100%.

While I'm not a fan of Calipari, I have to give him credit here. He's helped pull high-level college basketball forward into the modern age -- by focusing on player success. Talent rules. Calipari encourages players to explore their pro options, attends the NBA draft with players and celebrates when they move on from the Kentucky program. That's how you attract the very best. Coach K and Duke have followed suit.

The same goes for "losing" assistant coaches. Part of you hates to see someone like Brett Nelson go, but the best coaches are the ones who are hungry for new opportunities to advance their careers. We were fortunate to have him at Marquette. If we put talented coaches like Brett in position to succeed, we'll attract others like him.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2019, 09:45:42 AM »
I’m not going to shed a tear for the D1 hoops coach who is making, at a minimum, mid six figures while he complains about kids getting better opportunities at bigger schools.

Having said all of that, very cool article!

Pretty sure some of the low major coaches aren't pulling 6 figures. Could be wrong but wasn't buzz's contract at UNO a complete joke to the point he was making more as an MU assistant
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2019, 10:35:41 AM »
I'm pretty sure almost every D1 coach is making at least $100,000.  A few years ago I read somewhere that one coach with a publicly available salary was making less than that figure.  But if not every coach, I would say all but a handful.
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Marcus92

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2019, 10:47:04 AM »
Pretty sure some of the low major coaches aren't pulling 6 figures. Could be wrong but wasn't buzz's contract at UNO a complete joke to the point he was making more as an MU assistant.

I couldn't find any salary information for Buzz Williams as the head coach at New Orleans compared to when he was an assistant at Marquette. But here are some listed mid-major head coaching salaries per USA Today:

Mike Rhoades, Virginia Commonwealth (A10) -- $1.2 million
Brian Dutcher, San Diego St. (MWC) -- $829,453
Nate Oats, Buffalo (MAC) -- $612,000
Tim Cluess, Iona (MAAC) -- $565, 261
Chris Jans, New Mexico St. (WAC) -- $429,000
T.J. Otzelberger, South Dakota St. (Summit) -- $400,000
Kyle Keller, Stephen F. Austin (Southland) -- $355,000
LeVelle Moton, North Carolina Central (MEAC) -- $289,900

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/
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asdfasdf

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2019, 10:56:17 AM »
Pretty sure some of the low major coaches aren't pulling 6 figures. Could be wrong but wasn't buzz's contract at UNO a complete joke to the point he was making more as an MU assistant

Since the 2011-2012 season almost all low major coaches make less thank 500k/year. About 25% of mid major coaches make more than 500k/year. Very few high major coaches make less thank 500k.

panda

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2019, 10:57:35 AM »
Pretty sure some of the low major coaches aren't pulling 6 figures. Could be wrong but wasn't buzz's contract at UNO a complete joke to the point he was making more as an MU assistant

Every d1 coach makes at least 100,000. No question about it.

TillysDad

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2019, 11:40:00 AM »
Guess on who the coach is??

tower912

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2019, 11:46:55 AM »
Embiid visit went bad
Couldn't show how Buzz used bigs.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2019, 11:50:37 AM »
Couldn't show how Buzz used bigs.

I heard he walked into the bathroom after Buzz neglected to flush
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Herman Cain

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2019, 12:35:25 PM »
The mid major coaches who are willing to think outside the box are going to be rewarded . Grambling stepped up the plate with Deontay Long and have come up with a plan that will hopefully help the young man succeed. If it all works out they will have secured the services of a quality player.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/usatodayhss.com/2019/deontay-long-preferred-walk-on-grambling-state/amp
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warriorchick

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2019, 01:02:10 PM »
Pretty sure some of the low major coaches aren't pulling 6 figures. Could be wrong but wasn't buzz's contract at UNO a complete joke to the point he was making more as an MU assistant

UNO is a public institution, so his salary is public record.  You could probably find it if you were so inclined.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2019, 05:36:50 PM »
Not on the recruiting trail, but similar issue:  my nephew plays soccer for a smallish D1 team.  His freshman year he played every game -- led the team in minutes played (97% of available minutes).  He had a great season and was one of the team's top players by any measure and one of the top freshman in the conference.  The coach didn't even nominate him for any conference honors and actually told him that he doesn't nominate freshman because he thinks that if they receive such honors they're more likely to be recruited to transfer.  "Gee, thanks Coach."

the poaching in soccer is ridiculous with kids not having to sit out a year in residence. Nearly 1300 kids on the transfer portal in Men's Soccer. Low majors have to protect themselves.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: OT How recruiting really works at the mid major level
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2019, 05:39:23 PM »
I couldn't find any salary information for Buzz Williams as the head coach at New Orleans compared to when he was an assistant at Marquette. But here are some listed mid-major head coaching salaries per USA Today:

Mike Rhoades, Virginia Commonwealth (A10) -- $1.2 million
Brian Dutcher, San Diego St. (MWC) -- $829,453
Nate Oats, Buffalo (MAC) -- $612,000
Tim Cluess, Iona (MAAC) -- $565, 261
Chris Jans, New Mexico St. (WAC) -- $429,000
T.J. Otzelberger, South Dakota St. (Summit) -- $400,000
Kyle Keller, Stephen F. Austin (Southland) -- $355,000
LeVelle Moton, North Carolina Central (MEAC) -- $289,900

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/

Idaho State's new coach will make a base of $115,000. Obviously not a pittance but hardly living the high life.
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