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Date/Time: Oct 4, 2019
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Author Topic: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette  (Read 12183 times)

MU82

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #175 on: July 14, 2019, 11:55:03 AM »
I can't disagree with this. But that's an almost impossibly high bar -- one no Marquette freshman has possibly ever lived up to. All three were Wooden award winners. Zion and AD were #1 overall picks in the NBA draft (KD was drafted #2).

Again, I don't really disagree with any of this. But as a freshman, Joey performed on a level equal to or better than a number of recent Marquette greats -- including about a half-dozen who ended up in the NBA. I'd say Dominic was better, Markus was probably better, and I somehow left Henry (who was clearly better) off my list. In my eyes, that's more than decent for a freshman. Yes, Joey was inconsistent. Yes, there's plenty of room for improvement in his game. But that's true of most freshmen, even very talented ones.

Apologies if it seems like I'm fixating on the word "decent." But I don't think Izzo would be interested in giving up a scholarship for a year to bring in a "decent" player. My guess is that he believes he's getting someone special in Joey, a player that's only begun to tap his potential.

Apologies unnecessary. I probably fixated on the phrase"a hell of a player," too.

I do think we're talking about two different things. I say Joey was decent last season but that he has the potential to be very good. And it is that potential Izzo is banking on.

Maybe I'm not giving Joey's potential enough credit; maybe he will be "a hell of a player" someday. We'll see!

Thanks for the conversation.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

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GooooMarquette

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #176 on: July 14, 2019, 12:48:13 PM »
Joey had a good freshman season, and he showed promise to be better. But Izzo giving him a scholarship doesn't necessarily equate with Izzo thinking he'll be a star. Like every team, MSU plays with only one basketball to distribute among 13 scholarship players. Could very well be he thinks Joey will be a solid role player....

rocket surgeon

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #177 on: July 14, 2019, 01:54:45 PM »
Is this what the narrative of the 2018-19 season is gonna be?  That we were really good until that cancer Joey Hauser and his brother Sam tanked the season?  And that Wojo did everything right and/or that nothing could be done by him to fix the sinking ship? 

Seems pretty convenient.  The Hausers definitely played their part in the collapse, but it's wishful thinking to believe they were responsible for all of it.  Otherwise, why would two coaches who are a heck of a lot more successful than Wojo want to take them on?

not exactly what i meant, but i think the youngest hauser infected the team, including his older bro.  sam is going to be ok.  if coach Izzo sees something in the youngster, go for it.  i would expect joey to have a pretty good couple of years for michigan st. for 2 reasons:
     1) he will have no choice but to do as coach Izzo says and
     2) he's going to be playing with a chip the size of gibraltar on his shoulder. 

    regardless, we are all better off.  i feel bad for sam because i think he was caught in the middle.  he and markus were really good friends until someone had the gall to tell joey he wasn't doing everything right.  note, we haven't lost anyone else since the day after markus declared he is staying.  yes, i heard there were a few others who might have left as well, but...they didn't

Herman Cain

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #178 on: July 14, 2019, 10:01:09 PM »
not exactly what i meant, but i think the youngest hauser infected the team, including his older bro.  sam is going to be ok.  if coach Izzo sees something in the youngster, go for it.  i would expect joey to have a pretty good couple of years for michigan st. for 2 reasons:
     1) he will have no choice but to do as coach Izzo says and
     2) he's going to be playing with a chip the size of gibraltar on his shoulder. 

    regardless, we are all better off.  i feel bad for sam because i think he was caught in the middle.  he and markus were really good friends until someone had the gall to tell joey he wasn't doing everything right.  note, we haven't lost anyone else since the day after markus declared he is staying.  yes, i heard there were a few others who might have left as well, but...they didn't
I think too much is made of recruit rankings and all the hype today. Not really fair to these kids. Too much expectations both internally and externally.

Joey had some good skills but reality is he was not materially different than Terrell Schlundt. In fact, I think if Terrell Schlundt played in the three point era , he may have even been marginally better than Joey. Schlundt was also well respected by his teammates and made captain his senior year.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #179 on: July 14, 2019, 10:30:58 PM »
I posted this a few weeks back.

Top 5 candidates listed for the 2020 Cousy Award

Cassius Winston: 44.8 assist rate/17.5 Turnover rate

Markus Howard: 27.2 assist rate/18.4 turnover rate

Tre Jones: 24 assist rate/14.7 turnover rate

Ashton Hagans: 27 assist rate/28.4 turnover rate

Anthony Cowan: 26.1 assist rate/18.6 turnover rate

All those guys played with players as talented, probably more talented than Joey and Sam.  Tre Jones is a likely first round pick in the 2020 draft.  That’s good company Markus is in for a point guard and his assist rate is quite similar to the best returning point guards save the unicorn, Cassius Winston

USG%:

Cassius Winston   28.6
Anthony Cowan    26.0
Ashton Hagans     17
Tre Jones             15.1

Markus Howard    37.4

wadesworld

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #180 on: July 14, 2019, 10:37:16 PM »
USG%:

Cassius Winston   28.6
Anthony Cowan    26.0
Ashton Hagans     17
Tre Jones             15.1

Markus Howard    37.4

I’d want Markus’s usage to be about double what Cowan, Hagans, and Jones had. Those 3 are not even the same stratosphere offensively as Markus.

NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #181 on: July 15, 2019, 01:52:08 AM »
not exactly what i meant, but i think the youngest hauser infected the team, including his older bro.  sam is going to be ok.  if coach Izzo sees something in the youngster, go for it.  i would expect joey to have a pretty good couple of years for michigan st. for 2 reasons:
     1) he will have no choice but to do as coach Izzo says and
     2) he's going to be playing with a chip the size of gibraltar on his shoulder. 

    regardless, we are all better off.  i feel bad for sam because i think he was caught in the middle.  he and markus were really good friends until someone had the gall to tell joey he wasn't doing everything right.  note, we haven't lost anyone else since the day after markus declared he is staying.  yes, i heard there were a few others who might have left as well, but...they didn't

Rocket, you’ve made some good points in your posts....I will add that had Markus “corrected” any other 4-star Freshman, though the target’s reaction may have been the same, you’d have to think Sam would’ve been behind Markus, even if he agreed with a couple points the young man made to his elder teammate. I would bet Sam himself understands that to outsiders it sometimes appears Markus is playing “hero ball”..... when in actuality it is within the ridiculously extended “green light” Wojo gives his star guards. If Markus steps back while closely guarded and creates four feet of free space out of thin air before launching a three....is it really a worse shot than Joey or Sam spotting up with the nearest defender four feet away? Markus’s defender is likely unbalanced, all on his heels, trying to re-close that gap while Sam or Joey’s defender is running full speed with arms extended at them. Yes, the BroHaus’ release is quick and they are taller than Markus, and yes they are used to point guards finding them exactly in rhythm ..I’m just saying Markus creates crazy separation in the blink of an eye....that’s his game...and playing to it has earned us tremendous national media coverage and a recruiting bump.

   I was watching the Villanova game at an off-track wagering bar with a couple assistant HS coaches in the Northern Chicago burbs and one of them felt Markus was indeed taking bad shots. The other coach adamantly disagreed with him, that Markus is not the prototypical point guard and is playing within the flow and game plan of Wojo, and more importantly...using his individual skillset to disrupt the defense. We were at an OTB so I’m not naming names...I will say that the coach critical of Markus is involved in guard-specific training in the off-season, and one of his biggest focal points for point guards is finding shooters with well-timed crisp passes. I would bet Markus is working on remedying his weaknesses as we speak.

I agree with most everything you have pointed out, Rocket. However, I truly feel it is Markus who will be playing with the Gibraltar-sized chip on his shoulder. Joey will use the year off to reflect on his handling of everything and with some introspection and help from Coach Izzo, I look for him to grow leaps and bounds from a maturity and attitude standpoint. He is going to be a heck of a ballplayer. Sam will be just fine. The poor kid was caught in the crossfire. With the injuries he has played through so valiantly, this year off is a blessing for him.
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rocket surgeon

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #182 on: July 15, 2019, 06:15:54 AM »
Rocket, you’ve made some good points in your posts....I will add that had Markus “corrected” any other 4-star Freshman, though the target’s reaction may have been the same, you’d have to think Sam would’ve been behind Markus, even if he agreed with a couple points the young man made to his elder teammate. I would bet Sam himself understands that to outsiders it sometimes appears Markus is playing “hero ball”..... when in actuality it is within the ridiculously extended “green light” Wojo gives his star guards. If Markus steps back while closely guarded and creates four feet of free space out of thin air before launching a three....is it really a worse shot than Joey or Sam spotting up with the nearest defender four feet away? Markus’s defender is likely unbalanced, all on his heels, trying to re-close that gap while Sam or Joey’s defender is running full speed with arms extended at them. Yes, the BroHaus’ release is quick and they are taller than Markus, and yes they are used to point guards finding them exactly in rhythm ..I’m just saying Markus creates crazy separation in the blink of an eye....that’s his game...and playing to it has earned us tremendous national media coverage and a recruiting bump.

   I was watching the Villanova game at an off-track wagering bar with a couple assistant HS coaches in the Northern Chicago burbs and one of them felt Markus was indeed taking bad shots. The other coach adamantly disagreed with him, that Markus is not the prototypical point guard and is playing within the flow and game plan of Wojo, and more importantly...using his individual skillset to disrupt the defense. We were at an OTB so I’m not naming names...I will say that the coach critical of Markus is involved in guard-specific training in the off-season, and one of his biggest focal points for point guards is finding shooters with well-timed crisp passes. I would bet Markus is working on remedying his weaknesses as we speak.

I agree with most everything you have pointed out, Rocket. However, I truly feel it is Markus who will be playing with the Gibraltar-sized chip on his shoulder. Joey will use the year off to reflect on his handling of everything and with some introspection and help from Coach Izzo, I look for him to grow leaps and bounds from a maturity and attitude standpoint. He is going to be a heck of a ballplayer. Sam will be just fine. The poor kid was caught in the crossfire. With the injuries he has played through so valiantly, this year off is a blessing for him.

  i like all of this-might i add, the one thing wojo should have tried to make clear in front of the whole team during meetings, film sessions, etc(and maybe he did) was point out areas where markus needs(or needed to) to find sam and/or joey a little more when he felt the pressure of a double/triple team.  using the film sessions like they do on tv, focusing on the open areas of the defense and where the defensive player's eyes are focused outwards.  where is the soft coverage, weak side?  i know this sounds simplistic as during the fast paced flow of the game, it isn't this easy, but this is what they do. anyway, all good stuff dancer

jesmu84

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #183 on: July 15, 2019, 08:03:31 AM »
USG%:

Cassius Winston   28.6
Anthony Cowan    26.0
Ashton Hagans     17
Tre Jones             15.1

Markus Howard    37.4

Considering the differences in usage - and that Markus is not a pass-first PG (let alone the fact he is more naturally a 2G) and that Wojo doesn't structure around a pass-first PG - his TO% is great compared to the others and probably what should be expected for assists

brewcity77

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #184 on: July 16, 2019, 08:01:44 AM »
Considering the differences in usage - and that Markus is not a pass-first PG (let alone the fact he is more naturally a 2G) and that Wojo doesn't structure around a pass-first PG - his TO% is great compared to the others and probably what should be expected for assists

I compared Howard to other extremely high usage guys and found his assist rate to be about average. Most were in the 15-20% TO Rate range. Considering the quality of the league he plays in, that's fine.

There were some extremes, Chris Clemons led the nation in usage and had a 10.8% TO Rate, which is stunning, though playing in the Big South might have something to do with that, while Ja Morant had a 21.9% TO Rate, less than encouraging in the OVC.

Howard should probably be closer to 15, which he was as a sophomore, but while the raw turnover number will always look high--his 3.9 tpg was more than Junior or Derrick ever had despite Howard's 18.4% TO Rate being better than either of those two ever achieved--the amount he turns it over is generally fine.

#UnleashCain

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #185 on: July 16, 2019, 08:13:49 AM »
--his 3.9 tpg was more than Junior or Derrick ever had despite Howard's 18.4% TO Rate being better than either of those two ever achieved--the amount he turns it over is generally fine.

To be fair. It was hard for Derrick to turn over the ball when all he ever did was dribble 4 feet from half court.

MU82

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #186 on: July 16, 2019, 10:32:30 AM »
To be fair. It was hard for Derrick to turn over the ball when all he ever did was dribble 4 feet from half court.

Yep ... this is one reason why some of these stats are not as good as the eye test.
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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #188 on: July 17, 2019, 03:10:38 PM »
I’d want Markus’s usage to be about double what Cowan, Hagans, and Jones had. Those 3 are not even the same stratosphere offensively as Markus.

So between 30.2 and 52? I'd prefer something between 28 and 34. And bTW, I didn't pick these guys - Uncle Rico did.

wadesworld

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Re: Athletic: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
« Reply #189 on: July 17, 2019, 04:21:10 PM »
So between 30.2 and 52? I'd prefer something between 28 and 34. And bTW, I didn't pick these guys - Uncle Rico did.

Right.  And you pointed out their usage.  And if those players' usages are up there, then Markus's should be even higher than where it was, as Markus compared to those players offensively is like LeBron compared to Evan Turner.