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* Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
Marquette

Madness

Date/Time: Oct 4, 2019
TV: ???
Schedule for 2018-19
24-10

Author Topic: Next step  (Read 4172 times)

Cheeks

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Re: Next step
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2019, 06:12:31 PM »
But they are being paid.  At least at the big money schools.

Some. Not all.  You start paying, it is all over for a school like MU and many others.
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Gonzaga Head Coach Mark Few

Lennys Tap

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Re: Next step
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2019, 06:54:10 PM »
More clearly define your terms.  Did Villanova cheat?  Virginia?  UNC?    Who is cheating and how much are they cheating?  Next level...blue blood level?  Nova?  MSU?

I think that if the powers had to choose between being good and clean or great and dirty, they would choose good and clean.

Easiest excuse for a lack of success? Those guys cheat. We don't. Usually BS.

texaswarrior74

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Re: Next step
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2019, 09:35:36 PM »
VU-Don't know … UVA-Don't know....UNC-Absolutely YES

Roy doesn’t cheat. He has backed away from numerous recruits when handlers or AAU coaches were heavily involved in the process. Look at the facts, if he was cheating why did they miss out on so many 5 star recruits over the last 7-8 years. He wasn’t going to play the game. Fans were all over him at times for backing away from some recruits and time revealed that there were serious issues with said player.

 Look 8 miles down the road to Durham when Capel was there....their recruiting changed dramatically from even the type of recruits they once went after. Williamson’s family moved across country into a rental of an $850-900K home in an exclusive neighborhood- the home is owned by a Duke alum. In the tapes revealed in court he was quoted as saying he wanted a rent free home, a job paying $150-20OK that wouldn’t require him to work, a car and a large sum of cash to have Zion attend Kansas.....and he went to Duke for nothing? If you believe that I have some great land to sell you.

wadesworld

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Re: Next step
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2019, 09:59:23 PM »
Roy doesn’t cheat. He has backed away from numerous recruits when handlers or AAU coaches were heavily involved in the process. Look at the facts, if he was cheating why did they miss out on so many 5 star recruits over the last 7-8 years. He wasn’t going to play the game. Fans were all over him at times for backing away from some recruits and time revealed that there were serious issues with said player.

 Look 8 miles down the road to Durham when Capel was there....their recruiting changed dramatically from even the type of recruits they once went after. Williamson’s family moved across country into a rental of an $850-900K home in an exclusive neighborhood- the home is owned by a Duke alum. In the tapes revealed in court he was quoted as saying he wanted a rent free home, a job paying $150-20OK that wouldn’t require him to work, a car and a large sum of cash to have Zion attend Kansas.....and he went to Duke for nothing? If you believe that I have some great land to sell you.

He probably "backed away" (aka recruits backed away from their interest in UNC) because of the fake class scandal and the unknown of what kind of punishments they would face (much like LSU, Arizona, Kansas, etc...turns out the NCAA doesn't want to do anything at all so have at it).  You really think it was just coincidental timing that they "stayed away" (hilarious) from 5 stars during that period of time and then as soon as the NCAA announces there will be no punishments they end up with 2 five stars (you know, the players they're "staying away" from) in Koby White and Nasir Little, followed by a class with two more five stars (again, the guys they're "staying away" from) in Cole Anthony and Armondo Bacot?  Sorry, but that'd be one heck of a coincidence.

(And this is coming from someone who has always liked UNC as my second favorite college basketball team.)

MU82

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Re: Next step
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2019, 10:01:00 PM »
Roy doesn’t cheat. He has backed away from numerous recruits when handlers or AAU coaches were heavily involved in the process. Look at the facts, if he was cheating why did they miss out on so many 5 star recruits over the last 7-8 years. He wasn’t going to play the game. Fans were all over him at times for backing away from some recruits and time revealed that there were serious issues with said player.


There are more ways to cheat besides paying recruits. Roy spent more than a decade cheating in a much worse way.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

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Herman Cain

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Re: Next step
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2019, 12:00:36 AM »
Can MU basketball program take the next step without cheating?
Yes. There are plenty of legitimate assets in place to support success at the next level. MU just needs a coach who can utilize those assets in a more effective way.

Unfortunately, the administration is willing to settle for the current status of the program.  The current coach is good enough to keep the team in the 20-21 win range for a long period of time, with an occasional year like this past year. As long as kids stay out of trouble the administration will accept that level of success.

With a better coach MU can get the program back  to the Crean /Buzz level.
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jesmu84

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Re: Next step
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2019, 06:03:16 AM »
Yes. There are plenty of legitimate assets in place to support success at the next level. MU just needs a coach who can utilize those assets in a more effective way.

Unfortunately, the administration is willing to settle for the current status of the program.  The current coach is good enough to keep the team in the 20-21 win range for a long period of time, with an occasional year like this past year. As long as kids stay out of trouble the administration will accept that level of success.

With a better coach MU can get the program back  to the Crean /Buzz level.

 :o

Crean had 1 final four run with the best player in Marquette history...

Otherwise, how was Crean's level that much better than Wojo?

Galway Eagle

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Re: Next step
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2019, 06:12:39 AM »
:o

Crean had 1 final four run with the best player in Marquette history...

Otherwise, how was Crean's level that much better than Wojo?

Crean brought us the leading scorer in MU history! ...wait
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Next step
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2019, 06:48:50 AM »
:o

Crean had 1 final four run with the best player in Marquette history...

Otherwise, how was Crean's level that much better than Wojo?

But he did recruit that player and they did get to the final four. It’s a silly argument to make.

Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Next step
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2019, 07:18:05 AM »
Roy doesn’t cheat. He has backed away from numerous recruits when handlers or AAU coaches were heavily involved in the process. Look at the facts, if he was cheating why did they miss out on so many 5 star recruits over the last 7-8 years. He wasn’t going to play the game. Fans were all over him at times for backing away from some recruits and time revealed that there were serious issues with said player.

 Look 8 miles down the road to Durham when Capel was there....their recruiting changed dramatically from even the type of recruits they once went after. Williamson’s family moved across country into a rental of an $850-900K home in an exclusive neighborhood- the home is owned by a Duke alum. In the tapes revealed in court he was quoted as saying he wanted a rent free home, a job paying $150-20OK that wouldn’t require him to work, a car and a large sum of cash to have Zion attend Kansas.....and he went to Duke for nothing? If you believe that I have some great land to sell you.

Why would roy cheat by giving money when he was already offering no show classes??
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brewcity77

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Re: Next step
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2019, 07:41:53 AM »
He probably "backed away" (aka recruits backed away from their interest in UNC) because of the fake class scandal and the unknown of what kind of punishments they would face (much like LSU, Arizona, Kansas, etc...turns out the NCAA doesn't want to do anything at all so have at it).  You really think it was just coincidental timing that they "stayed away" (hilarious) from 5 stars during that period of time and then as soon as the NCAA announces there will be no punishments they end up with 2 five stars (you know, the players they're "staying away" from) in Koby White and Nasir Little, followed by a class with two more five stars (again, the guys they're "staying away" from) in Cole Anthony and Armondo Bacot?  Sorry, but that'd be one heck of a coincidence.

(And this is coming from someone who has always liked UNC as my second favorite college basketball team.)

This. It's beyond ridiculous to think Roy "stayed away" from 5-stars because there was cheating involved.

MU82

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Re: Next step
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2019, 08:42:09 AM »
:o

Crean had 1 final four run with the best player in Marquette history...

Otherwise, how was Crean's level that much better than Wojo?

You're better than this, jes. It's like saying, "Except for those four 80-yard TD passes we allowed, our defense was good."

You DID allow the 80-yard passes.

And Crean DID recruit, sign, develop and benefit from D-Wade.

And any Final Four run is obviously significant, especially given that there was other success (though not as successful success) during Crean's time.

Now, I certainly would agree that other than that he did nothing special. But the Final Four run WAS special, and Wojo hasn't come close to doing anything even remotely that special. If he had, most here would not be sniping at him.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

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Cheeks

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Re: Next step
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2019, 08:58:35 AM »
You're better than this, jes. It's like saying, "Except for those four 80-yard TD passes we allowed, our defense was good."

You DID allow the 80-yard passes.

And Crean DID recruit, sign, develop and benefit from D-Wade.

And any Final Four run is obviously significant, especially given that there was other success (though not as successful success) during Crean's time.

Now, I certainly would agree that other than that he did nothing special. But the Final Four run WAS special, and Wojo hasn't come close to doing anything even remotely that special. If he had, most here would not be sniping at him.

Considering how many here do snipe at Crean, I beg to differ.


"The tournament is a crapshoot. It shouldn't be everything. It's such a shallow thing to pin everything on."
Gonzaga Head Coach Mark Few

MU82

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Re: Next step
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2019, 09:46:06 AM »
Considering how many here do snipe at Crean, I beg to differ.

I wasn't around Scoop in the years after the FF run. Was Crean being sniped at to the degree that Wojo is getting sniped at?

Asking seriously, as I have no idea.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

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tower912

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Re: Next step
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2019, 09:50:00 AM »
Scoop started in 2006.  So only 2 years of sniping at Crean while he was at MU.
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4everwarriors

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Re: Next step
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2019, 10:19:23 AM »
Nah, T-Cubed deuced da bed with a weak ta prep four Kansas on college basketball's biggest stage. New den and der, he wuz a fraud and a phony, aina?
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forgetful

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Re: Next step
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2019, 10:20:49 AM »
Scoop started in 2006.  So only 2 years of sniping at Crean while he was at MU.

And posters have been making up the lost time ever since.

Lazar's Headband

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Re: Next step
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2019, 10:22:24 AM »
Scoop started in 2006.  So only 2 years of sniping at Crean while he was at MU.

So, Scoop is just starting its angsty teenage years.  Sounds about right.

MU82

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Re: Next step
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2019, 10:25:13 AM »
Scoop started in 2006.  So only 2 years of sniping at Crean while he was at MU.

2006 ... so that means there were 2 non-NCAA tourney teams plus the first-round loss to Alabama after the FF run. But he had brought in the Amigos recruiting class, followed by Lazar-Kooby, followed by Mbakwe.

So for those who were Scoopin' then, was the sniping as bad then as it is for Wojo now: Can't coach, can't manage egos, says nothing in timeouts, no adjustments, has no plan when recruiting, hasn't won anything, etc?

Maybe it was, though hard for me to believe.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

-- Pope Francis

BrewCity83

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Re: Next step
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2019, 10:35:14 AM »
No--the bad Crean sniping started the day he bolted for Indiana.
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tower912

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Re: Next step
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2019, 10:47:41 AM »
There were a few who hated Crean at the time.  There was some restlessness because the classes were not balanced and the inability to recruit and develop bigs.  There is more open hostility to Wojo than there was to Crean when he was the coach.  The hostility really took off after he left.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

MUMonster03

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Re: Next step
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2019, 11:14:38 AM »
It's kinda crazy what Wade bought Crean. 2 years with Wade, two NCAA tournaments and a FF. Other 7 years, 3 NCAAs and 1 NCAA win and then got the IU job.

If he hadn't gambled on Wade he probably would have been back to being an assistant after the 05 or 06 season.

tower912

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Re: Next step
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2019, 11:25:53 AM »
Of course, you can go back and read the posts from 2006.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

MUDPT

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Re: Next step
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2019, 11:32:15 AM »
There were lots of questions on the old board after the Western Michigan game.

jesmu84

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Re: Next step
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2019, 11:53:45 AM »
You're better than this, jes. It's like saying, "Except for those four 80-yard TD passes we allowed, our defense was good."

You DID allow the 80-yard passes.

And Crean DID recruit, sign, develop and benefit from D-Wade.

And any Final Four run is obviously significant, especially given that there was other success (though not as successful success) during Crean's time.

Now, I certainly would agree that other than that he did nothing special. But the Final Four run WAS special, and Wojo hasn't come close to doing anything even remotely that special. If he had, most here would not be sniping at him.

I loved the Crean years. They brought me to MU.

All I'm saying, is look at the entire resume. Buzz was significantly more impressive than Crean, as a whole.

If Wojo brings in an all time, HOF player and we have 1 deep run in the tourney, and wojo does little to nothing else, I won't think his coaching tenure overall is a great success.