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Author Topic: Kentucky Derby  (Read 6665 times)

Cheeks

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2019, 07:30:07 PM »
Im usually with you, but in this case, you (and especially President Trump) are wrong. A foul is a foul is a foul. To put it in basketball parlance, imagine Sacar (War of Will) cutting down the right side of the lane on a fast break while his defender flies over to his right and almost knocks him to the floor...and then as Sacar loses the ball, a trailing Brendan Bailey (Code of Honor) (byu honor code...see what I did there in choosing BB?) picks it up to the same defender’s inside and attacks the hoop but is shut off and bumped, losing the ball out of bounds. So, on the same play, a near flagrant foul and another foul happen, and you let em play? Ok.

I have taken heat here for finding a couple past Trumpisms refreshing...I like his calling out fake news...but his comments on the DQ make me think his critics may be on to something...I mean he knows $%@* about horse racing if he thinks that was merely a “robust”  race and that the DQ smacks of political correctness. I literally fell off my chair when I read his tweet.

Also, given the recent tragedies at Santa Anita...the sport has come under immense criticism for not enforcing medication rules and for allowing riding infractions and excessive whipping to go unchecked...now they make a correct decision in favor of honoring rules and suddenly the industry is somehow politically correct.

I thought the DQ was correct.  Has nothing to do with the guy you mentioned. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

warriorchick

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2019, 07:36:27 PM »
I got an update on my phone a couple hours ago that West claims he has new video evidence that a photographer crouching on the infield grass caused the whole thing when his camera flashed. They are using it as the basis for an appeal to the KY Horse Racing Commission. I don’t see how this would be material, as he still interfered with multiple horses...causes be damned.

Owners and trainers are striving to win this race their entire careers in racing. So I can see Mr. West’s frustrations. But, you are right....he sure comes off as a whiny bee-otch.

Was the photographer on a grassy knoll?
Have some patience, FFS.

NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2019, 09:57:27 PM »
Pulling a good horse with breeding potential out of the Preakness is smart.

Yes it is. Most horses today need much longer than 2 weeks to recover from any race, let alone from a race where they go a Mile and a quarter for the very first time.

I do want to know what the connections were thinking debuting this horse in a Maiden Claiming race down at Gulfstream...where you or I or anyone could’ve purchased the horse for 16K? Couldn’t have been very high on the horse or his breeding value at that point. But, I guess that’s what makes racing so unique. Sometimes a light goes on when a horse is loaded into a starting gate with his peers.

 After he broke his maiden by almost 10 lengths in swift fashion, they sure weren’t entering him for a tag again. His Florida Derby win fooled me, in that the Gulfstream track was playing to front-end speed all day. I felt his was a bias-aided win. He proved many handicappers wrong in Louisville, foul or no foul...but I also feel the sloppy sealed racing surface aided his speed. It is usually very difficult to make up significant ground on the leaders when a racetrack surface is rated sloppy and/or “sloppy sealed”....the horses on the lead tend to skip over it, provided they have any mud breeding whatsoever (Jerry, his mudder was a mudder!).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 10:08:19 PM by NorthernDancerColt »
Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2019, 10:05:31 PM »
Was the photographer on a grassy knoll?

I do know that Country House, the winner by DQ, was sired by Lookin’ at Lee.

Whether Lee (Harvey O) was positioned on the top floor of the Kentucky Racing Form Depository is another matter entirely.

Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

MU82

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2019, 10:32:57 PM »
While my son and I watched the race live, I said, "No. 7 is drifting too far! That's against the rules!"

We finished watching the race, turned off the TV, and then went out to dinner with the rest of the family.

The next morning, my son said, "Dad, did you see what happened with the Derby? You were right! They DQed No. 7 for drifting too far and impeding other horses, dropped him down near last place." We then both watched a couple of replays, and it was so clear.

It was obviously the right call. And yet I was still surprised they had the guts to make it. Kudos to the stewards.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2019, 10:49:58 PM »
While my son and I watched the race live, I said, "No. 7 is drifting too far! That's against the rules!"

We finished watching the race, turned off the TV, and then went out to dinner with the rest of the family.

The next morning, my son said, "Dad, did you see what happened with the Derby? You were right! They DQed No. 7 for drifting too far and impeding other horses, dropped him down near last place." We then both watched a couple of replays, and it was so clear.

It was obviously the right call. And yet I was still surprised they had the guts to make it. Kudos to the stewards.

Your last paragraph says it all. Couldn’t agree more. With so many uninformed eyeballs tuning in, it took guts to do the DQ.

Good catch watching it live...you coach, so you clearly have an eye for picking up details in a fast moving event which most miss.
Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

MU82

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2019, 08:14:04 AM »
Your last paragraph says it all. Couldn’t agree more. With so many uninformed eyeballs tuning in, it took guts to do the DQ.

Good catch watching it live...you coach, so you clearly have an eye for picking up details in a fast moving event which most miss.

Even a blind squirrel ...

Seriously, a year after we moved to Minny (1985), a new track called Canterbury Downs opened. At the time, it was considered a true jewel. The NY Times wrote it up as one of the best tracks in the country, and it was a happening place for a year or three. You know what happened to horse racing ... industry largely went into the shytter. But I went often, got to know some serious horseplayers, and learned all I could about the game, how to read the Form, etc. After we had kids, we sometimes took them there on Sundays because they had kid-friendly stuff (pony rides, play area, etc). We used to joke, "Bring the kiddies to watch Daddy lose the mortgage!" Really enjoyed going there, and we occasionally seek out a track if we are traveling and racing is in season. I find it to be a relaxing, fun afternoon.

So I've seen a lot of horse racing (though obviously not as much as you), and I'm a little sad that, except for the Derby, it's become mostly a non-entity in the U.S. It's too slow for gamblers -- too much time between races -- because nobody wants to be patient and actually think about how to win a bet.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2019, 03:58:21 PM »
Even a blind squirrel ...

Seriously, a year after we moved to Minny (1985), a new track called Canterbury Downs opened. At the time, it was considered a true jewel. The NY Times wrote it up as one of the best tracks in the country, and it was a happening place for a year or three. You know what happened to horse racing ... industry largely went into the shytter. But I went often, got to know some serious horseplayers, and learned all I could about the game, how to read the Form, etc. After we had kids, we sometimes took them there on Sundays because they had kid-friendly stuff (pony rides, play area, etc). We used to joke, "Bring the kiddies to watch Daddy lose the mortgage!" Really enjoyed going there, and we occasionally seek out a track if we are traveling and racing is in season. I find it to be a relaxing, fun afternoon.

So I've seen a lot of horse racing (though obviously not as much as you), and I'm a little sad that, except for the Derby, it's become mostly a non-entity in the U.S. It's too slow for gamblers -- too much time between races -- because nobody wants to be patient and actually think about how to win a bet.

Canterbury had a serious down period, as you described. It has made a nice comeback, however, as it is now partnered in ownership with a booming casino. It seems that for racing to survive, it needs to have slots or needs to have a sports book, which the gears are in motion for nationally. Kind of sad that it can’t survive on its own, as it is such a colorful, beautiful game. I know more Damon Runyon-esque characters from the racetrack than I can count.

The solution for the problem you describe is so simple, and racetracks are finally catching on to the model....you forego racing during the week...eschewing the old industrial standard of 5 or 6 days of racing....in favor of a 3 day week...you have a quicker race day with only 8 races over a 3.5 hr period. Less time between races and full fields result, especially if the given track has slots or a sports book present on the grounds to supplement purse monies. Every horseplayer loves big field sizes..which lead to frequent “value” on the board.
Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

MU82

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2019, 09:36:35 PM »
Canterbury had a serious down period, as you described. It has made a nice comeback, however, as it is now partnered in ownership with a booming casino. It seems that for racing to survive, it needs to have slots or needs to have a sports book, which the gears are in motion for nationally. Kind of sad that it can’t survive on its own, as it is such a colorful, beautiful game. I know more Damon Runyon-esque characters from the racetrack than I can count.

The solution for the problem you describe is so simple, and racetracks are finally catching on to the model....you forego racing during the week...eschewing the old industrial standard of 5 or 6 days of racing....in favor of a 3 day week...you have a quicker race day with only 8 races over a 3.5 hr period. Less time between races and full fields result, especially if the given track has slots or a sports book present on the grounds to supplement purse monies. Every horseplayer loves big field sizes..which lead to frequent “value” on the board.

Glad to hear Canterbury is bouncing back. I like your "prescription" for success, and I hope it works.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Benny B

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2019, 09:46:39 AM »
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/maximum-securitys-owner-issues-20-million-challenge-to-kentucky-derby-contenders-194658357.html

Is Gary West off his rocker?  Or could he be the genius that horse racing needs.  He said any race... why not just pull it off in one shot?


Logistically, you probably couldn’t hold it at any of the three Triple Crown parks or Santa Anita.  But Churchill Downs (company) could brand this as an unofficial re-match and hold it at another of their owned properties, perhaps at their second-highest profile track: Arlington.


Think about it.  Leverage the attention from the “controversy” of this year’s Derby into a single, $20M stakes race, centrally located at a track with the infrastructure to pull it off.  It just might be the injection (no pun intended) that could bring horse racing back to the mainstream. 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 09:48:30 AM by Benny B »
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

MU82

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2019, 05:09:02 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/maximum-securitys-owner-issues-20-million-challenge-to-kentucky-derby-contenders-194658357.html

Is Gary West off his rocker?  Or could he be the genius that horse racing needs.  He said any race... why not just pull it off in one shot?


Logistically, you probably couldn’t hold it at any of the three Triple Crown parks or Santa Anita.  But Churchill Downs (company) could brand this as an unofficial re-match and hold it at another of their owned properties, perhaps at their second-highest profile track: Arlington.


Think about it.  Leverage the attention from the “controversy” of this year’s Derby into a single, $20M stakes race, centrally located at a track with the infrastructure to pull it off.  It just might be the injection (no pun intended) that could bring horse racing back to the mainstream.

It wouldn't pull horse racing back to the mainstream, but it would give it a jolt for a few days. And that's something.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

warriorchick

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2019, 05:19:48 PM »
It wouldn't pull horse racing back to the mainstream, but it would give it a jolt for a few days. And that's something.

The last stunt horserace I remember did not turn out well...

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/08/03/ruffian-vs-foolish-pleasure/
Have some patience, FFS.

MU82

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2019, 07:43:28 PM »
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

warriorchick

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2019, 07:52:29 PM »
That was effen sad.

I watched it live.  I wonder how many little kids were traumatized by that event.
Have some patience, FFS.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Kentucky Derby
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2019, 10:53:12 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/maximum-securitys-owner-issues-20-million-challenge-to-kentucky-derby-contenders-194658357.html

Is Gary West off his rocker?  Or could he be the genius that horse racing needs.  He said any race... why not just pull it off in one shot?


Logistically, you probably couldn’t hold it at any of the three Triple Crown parks or Santa Anita.  But Churchill Downs (company) could brand this as an unofficial re-match and hold it at another of their owned properties, perhaps at their second-highest profile track: Arlington.


Think about it.  Leverage the attention from the “controversy” of this year’s Derby into a single, $20M stakes race, centrally located at a track with the infrastructure to pull it off.  It just might be the injection (no pun intended) that could bring horse racing back to the mainstream.

Would Tiger and Phil be the jockeys?