What is Wojo's pitch?

[WhiteTrash]

Wojo is recruiting guys to be at MU past his contract. So how does he spin it? MU has not bought in on him. Should recruits?

[MUUWUWM]

And you know this to be true? Doubt it.

[BCHoopster]

He can have a big recruiting year coming up, is on on lots of players, let’s see how Wojo does. Can sell an All American right now on campus.  Still lots to sell.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Yep 2nd place BE finish, rising program, coming off an NCaa bid, and should have a top 20 team next year.  The only ones negative on MU are the Aholes on this board!!

[fjm]

I’d go fastball-curve-fastball.

[fjm]

He can also say

“Hey wanna see bucks and other pro players weekly?”

[muguru]

Yep 2nd place BE finish, rising program, coming off an NCaa bid, and should have a top 20 team next year.  The only ones negative on MU are the Aholes on this board!!

Wow! HUGE HUGE accomplishments for a 5th year Coach at MU...Better then Crean or Buzz did after 5 years...oh...wait. A 2nd place BE finish?? Wow! hang a banner! An NCAA bid?? Hang another banner. Top 20 team??(was going to be possibly top 5 before he lost two of his top 3 players) Hang two banners for that. Programs in great GREAT shape under his leadership...Hell, they are right on the cusp of becoming elite under him...I'm sold!

[PointWarrior]

Depends - based on the only 2 viewpoints on this board:

1)   Come join me for my farewell season...

or

2)  Marshmellow types need not apply...

[ATL MU Warrior]

Wow! HUGE HUGE accomplishments for a 5th year Coach at MU...Better then Crean or Buzz did after 5 years...oh...wait. A 2nd place BE finish?? Wow! hang a banner! An NCAA bid?? Hang another banner. Top 20 team??(was going to be possibly top 5 before he lost two of his top 3 players) Hang two banners for that. Programs in great GREAT shape under his leadership...Hell, they are right on the cusp of becoming elite under him...I'm sold!

You are destined fo be a miserable sh!t forever.

[Loose Cannon]

Seems Like this would be a honestly perplexing answer for the posters not in Wojo's corner.  Or is this another coin with 2 much difference sides.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

You are destined fo be a miserable sh!t forever.

Agreed muguru is pathetic.  And while this past year is not comparable to the season UVa had its still a top 20 season when compared to the other approx. 350 teams in D1 basketball and that is how recruits are looking at it.  Thankfully they are not looking at it that MU sucks because someone transferred and they didnt win the title like muguru does. 99.9% of the country sees Mu maybe having a disappointing end but for the most part an outstanding season.
Lastly, imma guarantee years 5 & 6 for Wojo are far bEtter than they were for Crean.  Mu guru had to be losing his mind during years 5 n 6 for Crean.  Some bad years indeed at MU

[muguru]

Agreed muguru is pathetic.  And while this past year is not comparable to the season UVa had its still a top 20 season when compared to the other approx. 350 teams in D1 basketball and that is how recruits are looking at it.  Thankfully they are not looking at it that MU sucks because someone transferred and they didnt win the title like muguru does. 99.9% of the country sees Mu maybe having a disappointing end but for the most part an outstanding season.
Lastly, imma guarantee years 5 & 6 for Wojo are far bEtter than they were for Crean.  Mu guru had to be losing his mind during years 5 n 6 for Crean.  Some bad years indeed at MU

I'm pathetic?? Okay, I will ask you a question sand knit, and here's the deal...If you get the answer correct, AND tell me if Wojo's 5 years have been better then Crean's or Buzz's first five years.. You will NEVER have to put up with my "patheticness" on this board ever again. Deal?? It's not an opinion question, it's a FACT based question that requires a simple yes or no answer. No more, no less. Which Coach is Wojo??

A. 102-53- 2 NCAA's, a conference title a final Four, 2 NIT berths

B. 114-54- 5 NCAA's, a conference title, two sweet16's, Elite 8

C. 97-69- 2 NCAA's, NIT

Good luck!

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

U said after 5 years.  After 5 years Creans orogram was trash with dameon mason, niv berkowitz, and a slew of others.  Nit flameouts.

[jonny09]

Yep 2nd place BE finish, rising program, coming off an NCaa bid, and should have a top 20 team next year.  The only ones negative on MU are the Aholes on this board!!

Yup.  Recruits love 0 NCAA wins since you took over.  Wojo apologist. ☝️

[MU82]

Yup.  Recruits love 0 NCAA wins since you took over.  Wojo apologist. ☝️

Recruits love playing time. Recruits love a showcase. Recruits love the coaching giving them the "green light." Recruits love certain assistant coaches and teammates.

Recruits love all kinds of things that aren't NCAA wins. But yes, many recruits love a program that can win NCAA games, too.

[jonny09]

Recruits love playing time. Recruits love a showcase. Recruits love the coaching giving them the "green light." Recruits love certain assistant coaches and teammates.

Recruits love all kinds of things that aren't NCAA wins. But yes, many recruits love a program that can win NCAA games, too.

Do recruits also like when they read about internal team chaos and the fact that your 2nd and 3rd leading scorers are leaving because of it?   I’m asking for a friend.

[muguru]

U said after 5 years.  After 5 years Creans orogram was trash with dameon mason, niv berkowitz, and a slew of others.  Nit flameouts.

Good job following instructions and answering the question yes or no...To help you out, i listed the 3 coaches A, B & C. Their overall records after 5 years, and their notable accomplishments within that 5 year time frame. Now, I don't think you're dumb...I'm pretty sure, you are just avoiding the obvious, because you're a Wojo apologist. I will ask it one more time...Have Wojo's accomplishments after 5 years been as impressive, less impressive, or more impressive as Crean's and Buzz's were?? We are basing this on ONLY the data I gave you above, overall record, post season accomplishments, and other notable accomplishments. What's your answer??

[jonny09]

Good job following instructions and answering the question yes or no...To help you out, i listed the 3 coaches A, B & C. Their overall records after 5 years, and their notable accomplishments within that 5 year time frame. Now, I don't think you're dumb...I'm pretty sure, you are just avoiding the obvious, because you're a Wojo apologist. I will ask it one more time...Have Wojo's accomplishments after 5 years been as impressive, less impressive, or more impressive as Crean's and Buzz's were?? We are basing this on ONLY the data I gave you above, overall record, post season accomplishments, and other notable accomplishments. What's your answer??

☝️

Thank you.  I have the answer in case he can’t / won’t answer.  Pretty obvious here.

[MU82]

Do recruits also like when they read about internal team chaos and the fact that your 2nd and 3rd leading scorers are leaving because of it?   I’m asking for a friend.

I would think not.

I believe the events of the last couple of weeks have done serious damage to Wojo's program, and it very well might not be able to recover under him.

You made a sarcastic statement based on your bias -- "Recruits love 0 NCAA wins since you took over" -- and I responded with some things that most basketball observers would agree that recruits actually do love.

You disagree that recruits love those things?

Over the next few months, we're going to get a very clear picture of how Wojo can recruit in this situation.

Oh, and I'm not even knocking you for making a sarcastic statement. Goodness knows I do it all the time.

[jonny09]

I would think not.

I believe the events of the last couple of weeks have done serious damage to Wojo's program, and it very well might not be able to recover under him.

You made a sarcastic statement based on your bias -- "Recruits love 0 NCAA wins since you took over" -- and I responded with some things that most basketball observers would agree that recruits actually do love.

You disagree that recruits love those things?

Over the next few months, we're going to get a very clear picture of how Wojo can recruit in this situation.

Oh, and I'm not even knocking you for making a sarcastic statement. Goodness knows I do it all the time.

Fair enough sir.  We shall see how it plays out. 

[jesmu84]

Wow! HUGE HUGE accomplishments for a 5th year Coach at MU...Better then Crean or Buzz did after 5 years...oh...wait. A 2nd place BE finish?? Wow! hang a banner! An NCAA bid?? Hang another banner. Top 20 team??(was going to be possibly top 5 before he lost two of his top 3 players) Hang two banners for that. Programs in great GREAT shape under his leadership...Hell, they are right on the cusp of becoming elite under him...I'm sold!

So OP asks how wojo can present his resume and current state of the program to recruits in an effort to get them to campus and better MU basketball and your response is to crap all over everything.

Wow

Most fans of the program want to see it succeed. But you'd rather tear down wojo and have him fail and the program fail under him. Cool.

[mu_hilltopper]

The other angle is how other coaches will recruit against Wojo. 

"Did you know 32.6% of MU fans think Wojo should be fired and that he has no contract extension?   Or that his players wrote a mutinous letter to him to get him to change?"

[auburnmarquette]

Wow! HUGE HUGE accomplishments for a 5th year Coach at MU...Better then Crean or Buzz did after 5 years...oh...wait. A 2nd place BE finish?? Wow! hang a banner! An NCAA bid?? Hang another banner. Top 20 team??(was going to be possibly top 5 before he lost two of his top 3 players) Hang two banners for that. Programs in great GREAT shape under his leadership...Hell, they are right on the cusp of becoming elite under him...I'm sold!

And when they accomplished those things they ... Ditched MU. And after the one other sweet 16 in between Al and Crean O'Neal ditched MU. So your point is you'd be a lot more sold on a coach who was about to leave MU selling recuits on coming here.

Thanks for providing a quick exhibit A of the comment above, the only negative here is the .... On this page.

[auburnmarquette]

The other angle is how other coaches will recruit against Wojo. 

"Did you know 32.6% of MU fans think Wojo should be fired and that he has no contract extension?   Or that his players wrote a mutinous letter to him to get him to change?"

Please don't humor yourself by pretending a survey of the less that 1% of fans who answer a survey gives a scientific poll of what percent of fans want Wojo fired. That's laughable and you know it. The last time someone referred to a survey like that as scientific was when the Chicago Tribune polled their own readers and ran a headline stating Dewey Defeats Truman.

As the New York Times wrote recently, some haven't realized that winning the Twitter war has nothing to winning an election. And I will keep repeating npr dropping their comments session because only 0.003% of their readers commented.

It's fine to have the hundred or coupe of hundred obnoxious malcontents have a home to complain here or on local sports.radio - but to pretend the fact that even in that forum they constitute less that one third of the fans translates to the constituting 32.6% of a universe of fans perhaps 100 times as big is scientifically laughable.

[Jon]

Please don't humor yourself by pretending a survey of the less that 1% of fans who answer a survey gives a scientific poll of what percent of fans want Wojo fired. That's laughable and you know it. The last time someone referred to a survey like that as scientific was when the Chicago Tribune polled their own readers and ran a headline stating Dewey Defeats Truman.

As the New York Times wrote recently, some haven't realized that winning the Twitter war has nothing to winning an election. And I will keep repeating npr dropping their comments session because only 0.003% of their readers commented.

It's fine to have the hundred or coupe of hundred obnoxious malcontents have a home to complain here or on local sports.radio - but to pretend the fact that even in that forum they constitute less that one third of the fans translates to the constituting 32.6% of a universe of fans perhaps 100 times as big is scientifically laughable.

And please don't humor yourself by pretending that there are any polls more relevant than the fact Wojo has a major player mutiny on his hands.

This has nothing to do with Scoopers, the New York Times, presidential tweets, Dewey Truman sample bias, the man on the moon, or an angry political pollster in Alabama. This is about Wojo's leadership and how the young men he leads feel about him.

So get off your high horse because unless you poll the 11 scholarship players on the MBB team you, like the Chicago Tribune in 1948 or Literary Digest in 1936, are sampling the wrong people.

You should know better than that.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Major player mutiny....Jon if you say it enuff it does make it true.
2 malcontents and their overzealous parents are leaving.  Their attempts to dictate the terms of tge program were unsuccessful.
The other 11 players, in an era of transferring when any issue arises, have dug in and stayed with this horrible program.

Doesnt appear your narrative is backed by the facts
Seems the poll u clamor for is 11-2, 15-2, if u add in the coaches. Kinda blows ur narrative out of the water.  Glad i never found myself in a fox hole with you.

[Class71]

Well there is considerable passion on this board for both sides of the Wojo argument followed by personal attacks by some. Defending personal positions is fair play. Personal attacks are the reason many prefer to do something other than read these threads.

[Loose Cannon]

Well there is considerable passion on this board for both sides of the Wojo argument followed by personal attacks by some. Defending personal positions is fair play. Personal attacks are the reason many prefer to do something other than read these threads.

You got that Right.

[WarriorDad]

The other angle is how other coaches will recruit against Wojo. 

"Did you know 32.6% of MU fans think Wojo should be fired and that he has no contract extension?   Or that his players wrote a mutinous letter to him to get him to change?"

You cannot worry about that.  Who do you replace him with?  Another assistant where another coach can say do you want to play for an unproven guy?  Coaches will come up with reasons for and against always. 

[muwarrior69]

The other angle is how other coaches will recruit against Wojo. 

"Did you know 32.6% of MU fans think Wojo should be fired and that he has no contract extension?   Or that his players wrote a mutinous letter to him to get him to change?"

The other coaches will just send them to MUScoop and say you really want to play for fans that will trash you anonymously and expect nothing less than an NCAA championship every year, and I mean every year.

[Goose]

Sandy

You should do some more homework before you post. You make a lot of assumptions and that is dangerous. So the internal poll is 15-2? My guess is that you still believe in the Easter Bunny.

[mu_hilltopper]

Please don't humor yourself by pretending a survey of the less that 1% of fans who answer a survey gives a scientific poll of what percent of fans want Wojo fired.

Oh, you are so so right!  Immediately after opposing recruiters (plural) give the 32.6% fire-Wojo figure, they would express the caveat that a NY Times story says it really only represents <1% of the fan base -- because high school juniors want the truth, man!

Don't "humor yourself" that a program recruiting against Wojo would make any distinction of a Scoop poll and a scientific one. 

It is very easy to paint the perception that a third of MU fans want Wojo fired, that his contract is not being renewed, his team wrote a letter of mutiny, and the team subsequently ended a "Top 10" season on a 1-6 catastrophe. 

I mean .. come on.  I can't tell if you've had too many Arby's or not enough.

[Boone]

Not only that, recruits today are probably more savvy than ever. The Hausers' transfers didn't occur in a vacuum. Kids and their entourages will have tough questions for Wojo, as to why especially the nearly-sainted, three-year starter Sam would up and leave. Wojo better polish his Power Point.

[hairy worthen]

Oh, you are so so right!  Immediately after opposing recruiters (plural) give the 32.6% fire-Wojo figure, they would express the caveat that a NY Times story says it really only represents <1% of the fan base -- because high school juniors want the truth, man!

Don't "humor yourself" that a program recruiting against Wojo would make any distinction of a Scoop poll and a scientific one. 

It is very easy to paint the perception that a third of MU fans want Wojo fired, that his contract is not being renewed, his team wrote a letter of mutiny, and the team subsequently ended a "Top 10" season on a 1-6 catastrophe. 

I mean .. come on.  I can't tell if you've had too many Arby's or not enough.

is that even possible. too many Arby's? I have never seen those words used in a sentence before

[Loose Cannon]

Not only that, recruits today are probably more savvy than ever. The Hausers' transfers didn't occur in a vacuum. Kids and their entourages will have tough questions for Wojo, as to why especially the nearly-sainted, three-year starter Sam would up and leave. Wojo better polish his Power Point.

Yeah, always better to be better.

[mu_hilltopper]

is that even possible. too many Arby's? I have never seen those words used in a sentence before

The body can only handle so much BAC.  Blood Arby's Content.   

[BallBoy]

I'm pathetic?? Okay, I will ask you a question sand knit, and here's the deal...If you get the answer correct, AND tell me if Wojo's 5 years have been better then Crean's or Buzz's first five years.. You will NEVER have to put up with my "patheticness" on this board ever again. Deal?? It's not an opinion question, it's a FACT based question that requires a simple yes or no answer. No more, no less. Which Coach is Wojo??

A. 102-53- 2 NCAA's, a conference title a final Four, 2 NIT berths

B. 114-54- 5 NCAA's, a conference title, two sweet16's, Elite 8

C. 97-69- 2 NCAA's, NIT

Good luck!

When looking at records in isolation then an argument can be made that b,a, then c or A, B then C but there are other things to look at as well such as conference perception, roster make up at the start and many others.

Buzz came into one of the best roster in MU history with three future NBA stars, MU all time leader in scoring and top 5 PG. in year two he still had a great foundation with Lazar, butler and other Crean hold overs. Buzz then hit a good stretch with his recruits until his last year in which his team failed badly. He left because he saw a rebuild in the next few years very similar to Crean. He left because of what he thought his next opportunities would be if people saw worse teams at MU.

Crean first two years were bad and then lead to 1st round exist and then a final four. Years 5 and 6 were horrible or do you forget getting destroyed by Western Michigan in first round NIT? Crean could have left after the final four. Had he not had bad year’s of five and 6 he would have probably left before year nine. Buzz left before his really bad years would have arrived.

I support every Marquette coach and want them to do well. Some on this board appear to be actively rooting against Wojo and have been from the start. If I ran the fire Wojo or why did we hire Wojo poll in his first year I would wager it is fairly close to the results today.

If we take the emotion out of it, Wojo’s teams have gotten better each year.  Each of his predecessors had an unfortunate transfer as well. If we look at winning coaches they have all been at their schools for a long time or had high major coaching experience before transferring to a blue blood.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Of the inherited rosters from worst to best:
1. Al
2. KO
3. Dukiet
4. Wojo
5. Rick
6. Buzz
7. Hank

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Of the inherited rosters from worst to best:
1. Al
2. KO
3. Dukiet
4. Wojo
5. Rick
6. Buzz
7. Hank

Nit picky but KO inherited Tony Smith.  Dukiet didn’t get anyone that good.

[Goose]

Dr. B

Think spot on with your list. No changes needed, IMO.

[Galway Eagle]

Of the inherited rosters from worst to best:
1. Al
2. KO
3. Dukiet
4. Wojo
5. Rick
6. Buzz
7. Hank

no crean or deane?

[goinUptown]

I'm pathetic?? Okay, I will ask you a question sand knit, and here's the deal...If you get the answer correct, AND tell me if Wojo's 5 years have been better then Crean's or Buzz's first five years.. You will NEVER have to put up with my "patheticness" on this board ever again. Deal?? It's not an opinion question, it's a FACT based question that requires a simple yes or no answer. No more, no less. Which Coach is Wojo??

A. 102-53- 2 NCAA's, a conference title a final Four, 2 NIT berths

B. 114-54- 5 NCAA's, a conference title, two sweet16's, Elite 8

C. 97-69- 2 NCAA's, NIT

Good luck!

seems like multiple choice, no?

[MU82]

The other angle is how other coaches will recruit against Wojo. 

"Did you know 32.6% of MU fans think Wojo should be fired and that he has no contract extension?   Or that his players wrote a mutinous letter to him to get him to change?"

Agreed.

There are all kinds of ways opposing coaches will use the Hauser situation and so-called mutiny to recruit negatively against Wojo. And right now, looking forward, that is my main concern. I'm not obsessed with it, because I try hard to not get worked up about things I can't control, but as a fan who wants to see us succeed it is a concern and it is a legitimate argument for ripping off the Band-Aid sooner than later.

Assuming that the Band-Aid does not get ripped off, however, it will be interesting to see how Wojo's recruiting goes. I would love for you and me to be very, very wrong about this affecting recruiting, and for him to land our best class in years. We certainly are being mentioned with some outstanding prospects, so we have little choice but to sit back and see what happens.

[Pakuni]

Nit picky but KO inherited Tony Smith.  Dukiet didn’t get anyone that good.

And Trevor Powell.

[MU82]

Of the inherited rosters from worst to best:
1. Al
2. KO
3. Dukiet
4. Wojo
5. Rick
6. Buzz
7. Hank

We have litigated this so often, but sure, we can play again and it beats talking about Woe-jo's "mutiny" ...

Tony Smith, one of the best players in Marquette history, and Trevor Powell, a junior who averaged 15-6 in Dukiet's last year ... those 2 players alone are better than anything several of the other coaches inherited. Plus Baldwin and Anglavar.

Now, queue some Scoopers to say how tragic that group was and how broken the program was overall. The last part of that sentence is true, of course. Dukiet badly stained the program, and KO did a great job fixing it ... thanks partly to his coaching of a not-bare cupboard and to his outstanding recruiting after that.

I'm a big KO fan. I just have to laugh at the occasional elevation of him to Saint Kevin -- especially given that he's the coach who invented the notion of Marquette as a stepping-stone job.

[Pakuni]

I'm a big KO fan. I just have to laugh at the occasional elevation of him to Saint Kevin -- especially given that he's the coach who invented the notion of Marquette as a stepping-stone job.

O'Neill saved the program, so I can forgive him for treating it like a stepping stone.

[lurch91]

Nit picky but KO inherited Tony Smith.  Dukiet didn’t get anyone that good.

Tony Smith signed his LOI when Rick was coach, but Rick bolted before Tony ever made it to campus.  Dukiet did recruit Trevor Powell, who KO inherited along with Tony Smith.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Tony Smith signed his LOI when Rick was coach, but Rick bolted before Tony ever made it to campus.  Dukiet did recruit Trevor Powell, who KO in herited along with Tony Smith.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Jay Bee]

Contracts are made to be broken; most #NoMatta.

I will say the 2020 PF kids may see MU as more attractive with Joey outta here.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Contracts are made to be broken; most #NoMatta.

I will say the 2020 PF kids may see MU as more attractive with Joey outta here.

I was thinking the same exact thing.  In many ways this makes MU look more attractive.