What Are Your Expectations For Marquette As A Program?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sure, I will get scoffed at(not sure why, just stating a fact), but Duke and UK come right to mind as far as losing basically their whole starting 5 almost every year. Do they take a step back?? Virginia is going to lose 3 starters for sure this year(possibly a 4th), we will wait and see how they do this year.

You didn't seem to read the question. Here you go:

Name me a team that failed to make the NIT, then lost it's coach, 5/6 of it's top players in terms of minutes played, and all but one member of it's recruiting class and then made the NCAA the next season. Bonus points if you can find a team that matches all that AND the top returning player in terms of minutes is the same level of player as Derrick Wilson.

I don't think there's ever been a time where Kentucky, Duke, Virginia have matched this criteria. Virginia this season most definitely doesn't meet the criteria.

Not saying it would have been an easy task for Wojo to do in year one, but it could have been done.

Yet there don't seem to be examples of any other coach being able to do it.....

[TallTitan34]

Sure, I will get scoffed at(not sure why, just stating a fact), but Duke and UK come right to mind as far as losing basically their whole starting 5 almost every year. Do they take a step back?? Virginia is going to lose 3 starters for sure this year(possibly a 4th), we will wait and see how they do this year. Not saying it would have been an easy task for Wojo to do in year one, but it could have been done. I don't frown on him so much for year one...but not making the tournament the year he had Henry, to me was inexcusable, and was the first obvious moment to me that he would struggle to Coach.

Assuming these teams did meet the qualifiers given (which they don't), you listed the National Champion and two blue bloods. 

[muguru]

Assuming these teams did meet the qualifiers given (which they don't), you listed the National Champion and two blue bloods.

And...your point is?? I'm glad you caught that...I knew full well they didn't meet the criteria, but I listed them there for a particular reason. See, if you can figure out why.

[muguru]

You didn't seem to read the question. Here you go:

I don't think there's ever been a time where Kentucky, Duke, Virginia have matched this criteria. Virginia this season most definitely doesn't meet the criteria.

Yet there don't seem to be examples of any other coach being able to do it.....

Okay, it's not identical, but I will give you an example of someone that made the NCAA's the second year as Coach, and every year after that while he was at the school..(a total of 5 years). It should be noted that his first year there, he went 3-13 his first year there after losing...11!!! 11 players from the previous roster, that's essentially the whole team and lost 8 after that year..yet, the next year  he had them in the NCAA's as an 8 seed and they made the round of 32.. Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State.

[Billy Hoyle]

Okay, it's not identical, but I will give you an example of someone that made the NCAA's the second year as Coach, and every year after that while he was at the school..(a total of 5 years). It should be noted that his first year there, he went 3-13 his first year there after losing...11!!! 11 players from the previous roster, that's essentially the whole team and lost 8 after that year..yet, the next year he had them in the NCAA's as an 8 seed and they made the round of 32.. Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State.

Hoiberg did it with transfers and JUCO's. It is far more difficult for MU and other private schools to get those kids into school for NCAA eligibility purposes due to having far more academic degree requirements that many schools do not have (Theology, Philosophy) and to get them to graduation by the completion of their eligibility.

[muguru]

Hoiberg did it with transfers and JUCO's. It is far more difficult for MU and other private schools to get those kids into school for NCAA eligibility purposes due to having far more academic degree requirements that many schools do not have (Theology, Philosophy) and to get them to graduation by the completion of their eligibility.

First, he didn't give a qualifier...2nd, it doesn't have ot be harder for MU to accept those types of kids, Buzz got them in.

[Cheeks]

First, he didn't give a qualifier...2nd, it doesn't have ot be harder for MU to accept those types of kids, Buzz got them in.

But it is harder, and because Buzz and his peeps blew it, it is harder than it was.  Blame Buzz.

We don’t have Phys ed....none of those credits from a JUCO transfer.  Billy is right about the Phil and Theo class requirements, where no public school requires that.  Etc etc.  You keep wanting to make it so easy and ignoring the realities...why?

[muguru]

But it is harder, and because Buzz and his peeps blew it, it is harder than it was.  Blame Buzz.

We don’t have Phys ed....none of those credits from a JUCO transfer.  Billy is right about the Phil and Theo class requirements, where no public school requires that.  Etc etc.  You keep wanting to make it so easy and ignoring the realities...why?

I will keep reminding you...until you "get" it...which means I will be doing this for the rest of my life...

“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And...your point is?? I'm glad you caught that...I knew full well they didn't meet the criteria, but I listed them there for a particular reason. See, if you can figure out why.

I assume it is because you expect Marquette to be a blue blood, like the schools you listed, and just be able to reload with 5-star freshmen every year.

Here's the problem with that theory. Wojo was hired on April 1st, 2014. Here is the list of available top 50 recruits on April 1st, 2014 (per 247 composite):

#6 Myles Turner (committed to Texas 4/30/14)
#35 Montaque Gill-Caesar (Committed to Mizzou 8/2/14)
#40 Devonte Graham (committed to Kansas 5/2/19)

So given that Myles Turner is alleged to have been paid oodles to go to Texas, Gill-Caesar ended up being a backup player for San Diego State.....that leaves Wojo with beating out Kansas for Devonte Graham. Graham is good, but I don't think he was the difference between a losing season and the NCAA. I'm also not sure what available coach out there would have been able to outrecruit Bill Self.

[muguru]

I assume it is because you expect Marquette to be a blue blood, like the schools you listed, and just be able to reload with 5-star freshmen every year.

Here's the problem with that theory. Wojo was hired on April 1st, 2014. Here is the list of available top 50 recruits on April 1st, 2014 (per 247 composite):

#6 Myles Turner (committed to Texas 4/30/14)
#35 Montaque Gill-Caesar (Committed to Mizzou 8/2/14)
#40 Devonte Graham (committed to Kansas 5/2/19)

So given that Myles Turner is alleged to have been paid oodles to go to Texas, Gill-Caesar ended up being a backup player for San Diego State.....that leaves Wojo with beating out Kansas for Devonte Graham. Graham is good, but I don't think he was the difference between a losing season and the NCAA. I'm also not sure what available coach out there would have been able to outrecruit Bill Self.

I said, his first year I can give him a pass, but that year with an NBA 1st round pick and not making the NCAA's?? I have a huge problem with that season. And I gave a similar(not exactly the same) example of what you were requesting above in Fred Hoiberg.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Okay, it's not identical, but I will give you an example of someone that made the NCAA's the second year as Coach, and every year after that while he was at the school..(a total of 5 years). It should be noted that his first year there, he went 3-13 his first year there after losing...11!!! 11 players from the previous roster, that's essentially the whole team and lost 8 after that year..yet, the next year  he had them in the NCAA's as an 8 seed and they made the round of 32.. Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State.

I said, his first year I can give him a pass, but that year with an NBA 1st round pick and not making the NCAA's?? I have a huge problem with that season. And I gave a similar(not exactly the same) example of what you were requesting above in Fred Hoiberg.

So....it sounds like Hoiberg needed to rebuild. Which is what this conversation was about.

[Cheeks]

I will keep reminding you...until you "get" it...which means I will be doing this for the rest of my life...

“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

What am I supposed to get...false facts?  Like the three players that left after Buzz hired weren’t meaningless as you claimed.  Now you want to pretend because Buzz was allowed to do different things with players that we no longer can, it doesn’t make a difference.  I could go on and on with you....jus as so many others have also done with you.

[brewcity77]

First, he didn't give a qualifier...2nd, it doesn't have ot be harder for MU to accept those types of kids, Buzz got them in.

When Chicos says you're ignoring reality, it's just that. The rules changed in the middle of Buzz's tenure:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8077431/connecticut-huskies-9-others-sit-postseason-apr

New NCAA APR requirements led to UConn being the first high major program with an APR postseason ban. That was in 2012. That was also around when Buzz dialed it back on JUCOs. I believe McKay was the only one after that, and the staff worked extensively with him to insure he'd come in on track to graduate.

For the reasons listed above and the new APR rules, Wojo couldn't take JUCOs like Buzz or Hoiberg had. MU's course requirements makes it harder for them to graduate and that graduation difficulty makes it harder to stay NCAA tournament eligible. If Wojo & MU loaded up on JUCO players, they would face postseason bans that weren't there when Buzz first started and would make the desired success you want unattainable.