Center is problem #1

[Jockey]

In 1/3 of our games, our starting center scored 2 points or less.

Besides not scoring, he commits so many fouls that he is giving teams more points than he is scoring.

That is problem #1 for this team going forward.

[jutaw22mu]

Inability to get the ball to the center that puts him in position to score is also a problem. 

[#UnleashSean]

I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.

Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.

A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls

Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Inability to get the ball to the center that puts him in position to score is also a problem.

Not its not!!! Theo is rudimentary at best scoring the ball n if he gets fouled is even worse.  Ed travels half the time he touches it n throws the ball at the badket when he doesnt. 
Ed plays hirrible defense yet rebounds well
Theo plays solid defense yet has zero iq on when to foul and when not to, his blocked shot hunting also affords tge other team tons of second chance opportunitues.
Ed is what he is.  Hopefully Theo can continue to improve, but our situation at the is 5 is bad

[CTWarrior]

I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.

Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.

A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls

Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.

I've been saying this on threads for a little bit now.  You missed another thing that happens, which is he does not stop the drive when he can by playing solid position D, allowing the driver to go to the basket while hoping for a block, and he is late or misses and the driver scores.

[Pakuni]

I think the biggest problem John has is going for those massive blocks everyone loves.

Sure it looks amazing and gets everyone fired up. But they usually result in 4 different options.

A) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents miss a bad shot on the inbounds.
B) he blocks the ball, it goes out of bounds. Opponents score on inbounds.
C) he misses the block, opponents get rebound due to no one being underneath anymore.
D) he fouls

Only 1 of those options goes in Marquette favor.

Well, first, not every blocked shot goes out of bounds. I'm not even sure a majority does. Where's the option that goes "he blocks the ball, it goes to him or another defender?"
Theo does need to pick his spots a little better, which is part of the learning process. But I'm not sure what the alternative here is. Not try to effect the shot and allow clear path to the hoop? Try to take a charge? These seem like much worse alternatives.
The fact is, Theo's ability to protect the rim is a huge reason for MU's defensive improvement this year. Again, he needs to pick his spots better to avoid so much foul trouble, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.

[Its DJOver]

Why do people look at our Center spot like it's Theo versus Ed?  Shouldn't we look at it like it's Theo plus Ed?  Getting 35 mpg, 11 ppg, 9 boards per, 2.5  blocks, and only 2.5 TO per, is not a bad line from our Center position.  Theo's fouls per 40 is still alarmingly high, but people were saying all off season that the fewer minutes Matt had to play, the better, and he only averaged 6.  Getting more consistency could be seen as a problem, but if far from our #1 problem IMO.

[CTWarrior]

Well, first, not every blocked shot goes out of bounds. I'm not even sure a majority does. Where's the option that goes "he blocks the ball, it goes to him or another defender?"
Theo does need to pick his spots a little better, which is part of the learning process. But I'm not sure what the alternative here is. Not try to effect the shot and allow clear path to the hoop? Try to take a charge? These seem like much worse alternatives.
The fact is, Theo's ability to protect the rim is a huge reason for MU's defensive improvement this year. Again, he needs to pick his spots better to avoid so much foul trouble, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.

I just added another bad thing that Theo does by not stopping the penetration.  I am looking at Theo as someone who is already a good defender but could be so much better.  The one thing he does do that was not mentioned in this thread is alter shots that he doesn't block, and that is probably his biggest asset as a defender.  I'd like to see him wall up more and alter shots rather than go full on sell out for a block mode.  After all, he only averages about 2 blocked shots a game anyway.

[Pakuni]

I just added another bad thing that Theo does by not stopping the penetration.  I am looking at Theo as someone who is already a good defender but could be so much better.  The one thing he does do that was not mentioned in this thread is alter shots that he doesn't block, and that is probably his biggest asset as a defender.  I'd like to see him wall up more and alter shots rather than go full on sell out for a block mode.  After all, he only averages about 2 blocked shots a game anyway.

That's reasonable, and what I mean by picking his spots better. But I don't want him to lose too much of his aggressiveness when it comes to protecting the rim. Despite some of the issues it may cause, it's still a net gain for the team defensively.

[MU82]

Why do people look at our Center spot like it's Theo versus Ed?  Shouldn't we look at it like it's Theo plus Ed?  Getting 25 mpg, 11 ppg, 9 boards per, 2.5  blocks, and only 2.5 TO per, is not a bad line from our Center position.  Theo's fouls per 40 is still alarmingly high, but people were saying all off season that the fewer minutes Matt had to play, the better, and he only averaged 6.  Getting more consistency could be seen as a problem, but if far from our #1 problem IMO.

This is where I stand, too, IDJO.

I thought our 5 combination in most games provided the equivalent of a very solid role player. Theo learned to commit fewer moving screens, so I have confidence he can learn to commit fewer defensive fouls. Some of his fouls were the fault of Joey and Markus (and occasionally Sacar and BB) for letting their man right by them and forcing Theo into tough situations.

If you watch today's college ball, there are very few teams with classic, "post up and we'll get the ball to you" 5s. Indeed, I think Sam and Joey are our best post players and I think one thing Wojo needs to do better is figure out ways to get them more post touches. It would be nice if Sam were more assertive in that realm, too.

Our 5s (especially Morrow) miss a few too many bunnies, but both (especially Morrow) made some huge offensive plays for us this season. If the rest of our team improves around them, and if Theo makes some incremental improvements, I am quite satisfied with our 5 position next season. It's especially nice that we can put Joey there against certain teams.

Look ... Markus, whether hurt, tired, scouted better or all three, wasn't as good down the stretch. Sam wasn't as consistently good, especially on offense. Sacar was in and out of the scoring column. And Joey all but disappeared the second half of the season.

The play of Theo/Ed isn't what cost us a 3-seed.

[Jockey]

Why do people look at our Center spot like it's Theo versus Ed?  Shouldn't we look at it like it's Theo plus Ed?  Getting 25 mpg, 11 ppg, 9 boards per, 2.5  blocks, and only 2.5 TO per, is not a bad line from our Center position.  Theo's fouls per 40 is still alarmingly high, but people were saying all off season that the fewer minutes Matt had to play, the better, and he only averaged 6.  Getting more consistency could be seen as a problem, but if far from our #1 problem IMO.

Theo + Ed = 35 minutes per game, not 25.

My point was not to attack Theo. It was that he needs to do more - especially on the offensive end.

[Its DJOver]

Theo + Ed = 35 minutes per game, not 25.

My point was not to attack Theo. It was that he needs to do more - especially on the offensive end.

Duh, my bad, typo has been fixed. 

If all Theo ever ends up being is a dump off/put back Center, I'm okay with that.  We've had successful teams with centers like that.  However, if he's going to be a real post presence, then I agree, 500 baby hooks with the right, and 500 baby hooks a day with the left, all off-season is what he needs.

[tower912]

I hope Ike's back heals.   Physically, he reminds me of all of those long-armed 6'10 players that have been accomplishing so much in the tourney.   

Conversely, if Bailey and Joey both come back with 10 lbs of muscle next year, a line up of Joey, BB, and Sam can be run out there in short bursts.     Joey and Sam both have excellent back to the basket moves.    I think both were less than they could have been this year because of rehabbing leg surgeries.   It is my hope both are a little stronger, a little quicker, and little more explosive next year. 

[Marcus92]

Theo was a huge factor in Marquette's improved defense this season (from 182nd to 41st in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom).

This was the first time in Wojo's tenure as head coach that the team seemed to get what man-to-man help defense was all about. Theo was at the center of that defensive system. But he and the team still have plenty of room to improve.

Both Theo (7.4) and Ed (5.7) averaged more than 5 fouls committed per 40 minutes. You can't play defense if you're not on the court. And we need their defensive presence. If they can find a way to improve here, I don't think a Top 25 defense is out of the question.

As for offense, we don't need Theo to score a lot. We have better offensive options -- although it would be nice if Markus could find him more often on pick and rolls for easy layups and dunks.

[Its DJOver]

Theo was a huge factor in Marquette's improved defense this season (from 182nd to 41st in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom).

This was the first time in Wojo's tenure as head coach that the team seemed to get what man-to-man help defense was all about. Theo was at the center of that defensive system. But he and the team still have plenty of room to improve.

Both Theo (7.4) and Ed (5.7) averaged more than 5 fouls committed per 40 minutes. You can't play defense if you're not on the court. And we need their defensive presence. If they can find a way to improve here, I don't think a Top 25 defense is out of the question.

As for offense, we don't need Theo to score a lot. We have better offensive options -- although it would be nice if Markus could find him more often on pick and rolls for easy layups and dunks.

I'm going to preference my question by saying that Theo's decision making does need to improve.  However, how significantly were Theo's minute total's affected by foul trouble?  I'm talking minutes as a whole, not just "oh, he's got two, he's gotta sit"?

Theo averaged just under 20 mpg, up fairly significantly from his just under 12 as a Freshman.  We knew that we were gonna get about 15 from Ed, which is exactly what he averaged.  That means that between Matt, and small ball with Joey/Sam we had to cover about 5 mpg.  As much as I love Matt as an ambassador to this University, the fact that he had 19 games where he played fewer than 10 minutes, and only got his season high when Ed was hurt, is a testament to the minute distribution among our bigs. 

When we have two capable center, neither has to play more than 21-22 mpg.  On our E8 team, Davante only averaged 21 mpg, because we also had Chris back there.  I don't think Theo would have gotten more than 1-2 more mpg even if he had a drastically reduced fouls per 40.

[Marcus92]

It might be less about average minutes than specific game circumstances. Theo played just 13 minutes against Seton Hall in the BE tourney. That certainly hurt the team's chances to win. (Although I believe technically he was ejected rather than fouling out.) He also played just 13 minutes with 4 fouls in the loss at Nova.

Could MU have won 1 or 2 more games if Theo was available and on the court for a key defensive stand? Perhaps.

[Jockey]

Theo was a huge factor in Marquette's improved defense this season (from 182nd to 41st in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom).

He was - although i’d Say Sacar defensively for Rowsey at guard was just as big a reason.

[tower912]

He was - although i’d Say Sacar defensively for Rowsey at guard was just as big a reason.

Sacar played big minutes next to Rowsey.     Having Joey, and for that matter Bailey, at forward allowed Sacar to play SG instead of SF.   Having adequate size at 4 out of 5 positions was a factor.    Markus worked harder on defense but was by no means great.   But he was still better than Rowsey and MU only had to try to cover for one tiny guard, not two.   

[Its DJOver]

It might be less about average minutes than specific game circumstances. Theo played just 13 minutes against Seton Hall in the BE tourney. That certainly hurt the team's chances to win. (Although I believe technically he was ejected rather than fouling out.) He also played just 13 minutes with 4 fouls in the loss at Nova.

Could MU have won 1 or 2 more games if Theo was available and on the court for a key defensive stand? Perhaps.

Yea, I think it would be extremely harsh to put the SH situation solely on Theo, and while fouls certainly played a role in the Nova loss, the way that Samuels was hitting three's, I don't think Theo would have made much of a difference.  I understand you point about looking game to game, rather than averages, but Thed only combined to score in single digits 10 times, while having 8 games with 15+ points.  Improve consistency on the offensive end? Sure, but who can't you say that about?   

[jutaw22mu]

Not its not!!! Theo is rudimentary at best scoring the ball n if he gets fouled is even worse.  Ed travels half the time he touches it n throws the ball at the badket when he doesnt. 
Ed plays hirrible defense yet rebounds well
Theo plays solid defense yet has zero iq on when to foul and when not to, his blocked shot hunting also affords tge other team tons of second chance opportunitues.
Ed is what he is.  Hopefully Theo can continue to improve, but our situation at the is 5 is bad

I agree with what you said, but I used the word “also” when I said getting the ball to them in scoring position is a problem.  This is very much true.  The deficiencies you point out are certainly bigger problems though.

[GoldenEagle323]

I like the energy that Ed brought off the bench. he's gonna be huge for us next year

[MU82]

I seriously like the Theo/Ed combo and I thought Wojo used it well.

brand and I agree on much, but we disagree on the 5 position being the #1 problem. I don't think it's close. Heck, I think it's a defensive strength.

[jutaw22mu]

I was impressed with Ed too.  He needs to work on his footwork/traveling, but he is an amazing option to have off the bench.

[MU82]

I'll go one step further:

One of my biggest concerns is that Ed is telling himself (or his "people" are telling him) that he could be more of an offensive factor and maybe even an NBA prospect if he plays the 4, and he decides to grad-transfer elsewhere.

We would have a lot of trouble finding somebody to fill his role next year. In the second half of this season, especially, he became very good at giving us what we needed from him.

[Mobot]

Lack of quickness was our biggest problem this year.  We struggled the most against teams with NBA caliber guards (St. Johns, Seton Hall, Murray State, Indiana). 

We will be better in that area next year with Greg Elliot, Kobe McEwen, and Dexter Akanno.