Rank the Big East Coaches

[Dr. Blackheart]

Seton Hall last year had a senior-laden roster with a returning 1st team all-conference player and returning 2nd team all-conference player. They opened the season in the top 25, but struggled in conference, lost their first game in the BE tournament and ended up an 8 seed before exiting the first weekend of the NCAA tourney and finishing the season unranked.

If MU returns with Markus and Sam next year, finishes 10-8 in the Big East, exits the BE tournament on Thursday, earns an 8 seed and doesn't advance past the first weekend of the NCAA tourney, will you say "Attaboy, Wojo?"

Again you posters keep hanging me with the Willard and Seton Hall endorsement (I am not a fan but thought he did a good job this year).  I simply followed up with specifics on Chico's question on why Willard's seat went from hot to cold in the eyes of fans.

To recap, Willard has achieved:

Four straight NCAA appearances
A BET Championship (and another Final)
A Round of 32

It's not that hard to see why the fans turned off the burners on the stove top. Wojo hasn't hit one of those.  If he hit just one of those (like the in grasp BE Title), the front burner of most fans' expectations would be on a low simmer.

That said, since you assumed my position on Wojo is negative, it isn't.  I was skewered on here a couple of years ago for saying it was a mistake for Wojo to not start Pole Whacking in Year 1 to get his recruits in from the get go (like Kieger did and who has checked all those boxes). He didn't for various reasons, but Buzz's guys all transferred anyway...so I clearly stated that even though it's Year 5 on the calendar, I considered this season as Year 4. 

Preseason, I predicted they would be 35 in KPom on here in October and they look that they will end at 32.  I am very pleased with the defensive progress. The offense's reliance on the only creator will improve with two redshirts next season.  Markus's usage was way too high but there was no other choice on the active roster.  The "Year 5 According to Blackheart" looks like some of those boxes will be checked next year.

[WarriorFan]

Recruiting
1. Wright
2. Mullin
3. Cooley
4. Ewing
5. Wojo
6. Willard
The rest are victims of their schools or themselves.  I might be under-rating Ewing.

Game Coaching:
1. Wright
2. Cooley
3. Willard (even though I don't like his strategies)
4. Wojo
5. Leitao
The rest are not notable at all.
In fact, I don't think the current BEAST has any elite game coaches like a Boeheim or Knight. Not saying Wright is the best of a bad lot... he's probably top 25, just that the drop-off is fast.

[willie warrior]

Why?  In 5 years Wojo already has us back in the tournament, several times, and top 3 conference finish. I expect even better next year.

Uh..2 flameout does not equal several, but have it your way.

[Pakuni]

Again you posters keep hanging me with the Willard and Seton Hall endorsement (I am not a fan but thought he did a good job this year).  I simply followed up with specifics on Chico's question on why Willard's seat went from hot to cold in the eyes of fans.

To recap, Willard has achieved:

Four straight NCAA appearances
A BET Championship (and another Final)
A Round of 32

It's not that hard to see why the fans turned off the burners on the stove top. Wojo hasn't hit one of those.  If he hit just one of those (like the in grasp BE Title), the front burner of most fans' expectations would be on a low simmer.

That said, since you assumed my position on Wojo is negative, it isn't. 

Doc ... I'm not trying to assume anything.  I'm just asking what I think is an obvious question.
Willard in 17-18 had a very similar situation to what Wojo will have next season,  i.e. a veteran roster, two of the league's best players returning, etc.
Willard parlayed that into a 10-8 conference record, 8 seed and first weekend exit.
If Wojo does the same next year, don't you think people will be calling for his head, not calling him one of the BE's best coaches?

[MU82]

Doc ... I'm not trying to assume anything.  I'm just asking what I think is an obvious question.
Willard in 17-18 had a very similar situation to what Wojo will have next season,  i.e. a veteran roster, two of the league's best players returning, etc.
Willard parlayed that into a 10-8 conference record, 8 seed and first weekend exit.
If Wojo does the same next year, don't you think people will be calling for his head, not calling him one of the BE's best coaches?

Not only that ...

For those comparing Wojo to Willard, shouldn't the comparison be made to Willard's first 5 seasons at Seton Hall? He was 82-80 overall ... and 30-60 in the BEast, with zero winning records in the conference, zero finishes higher than 7th place and zero NCAA appearances.

And when one counts Willard's 3 seasons at Iona prior to being poached by SH, he had a losing record after 8 years as a college head coach (127-129) with zero NCAA tournament appearances.

[Eldon]

I have never thought much of Willard. I thought he made some underhanded moves to get an elite recruiting class and was trying to ride them to success and failing. The fact that he managed this year's team to an NCAA berth was impressive.

What's the difference between "recruiting" a kid's HS coach (Willard) in order to secure a commitment and recruiting a kid's brother (Wojo)?

(In fairness, IIRC, I think Whitehead was listed in the FBI probe, but I'm not sure about the rest of that class; and I'm not sure about Willard's guilt)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What's the difference between "recruiting" a kid's HS coach (Willard) in order to secure a commitment and recruiting a kid's brother (Wojo)?

(In fairness, IIRC, I think Whitehead was listed in the FBI probe, but I'm not sure about the rest of that class; and I'm not sure about Willard's guilt)

I wasn't referring to recruiting a kid's HS coach.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Doc ... I'm not trying to assume anything.  I'm just asking what I think is an obvious question.
Willard in 17-18 had a very similar situation to what Wojo will have next season,  i.e. a veteran roster, two of the league's best players returning, etc.
Willard parlayed that into a 10-8 conference record, 8 seed and first weekend exit.
If Wojo does the same next year, don't you think people will be calling for his head, not calling him one of the BE's best coaches?

Again, Willard (nor the number of years it took) isn’t my or anyone’s else’s comparison point for Wojo’s future. Nor should it be. Marquette’s and Wojo’s agreed to expectations should be.

As to fans, again I just simply answered the question from Chico’s as to what I think it would take for (most) rationale fans to back off like they did for Willard, baring unforeseen circumstances. 

So, my answer to your question about when the fan heat gets dialed down is when Point C is reached, just as it has for Willard.  I think that has been true for any of the veteran coaches on that list and will be for any of the newer coaches.

What’s your tipping point? And, what is your ranking of BE coaches (the thread’s topic)? I want to see your ranking along with Cheeks and 82.

[Cheeks]

Uh..2 flameout does not equal several, but have it your way.

Several = number of times in tournament.  Sorry you don’t like the result, I don’t either and neither does Wojo, but doesn’t change that we have gone back several times in last three years.

[Pakuni]

What’s your tipping point? And, what is your ranking of BE coaches (the thread’s topic)? I want to see your ranking along with Cheeks and 82.

Not sure what you mean by my tipping point.
But my rankings:
Wright
Cooley
McDermott
Willard
Wojo
Jordan
Leitao
Ewing
Steele
Mullin

[Dr. Blackheart]

Not sure what you mean by my tipping point.
But my rankings:
Wright
Cooley
McDermott
Willard
Wojo
Jordan
Leitao
Ewing
Steele
Mullin

Thanks Pak.  Interesting on McD.  I always thought his team’s are great on offense and very pedestrian on D.  There is always a level of underachievement there I think. I think recently, as in the last month, they have started winning some games with D.

Tipping point is when the fans back off (or my definition).

[Goose]

For all the BE will be power conference every year folks, aside from Wright (and Wojo), are there more than two other guys you would want to lead MU? If not, where does the confidence in the conference come from? Take Wright out of the mix, and I would not want any of these stiffs running our program.

[Dr. Blackheart]

For all the BE will be power conference every year folks, aside from Wright (and Wojo), are there more than two other guys you would want to lead MU? If not, where does the confidence in the conference come from? Take Wright out of the mix, and I would not want any of these stiffs running our program.

First, your ranking. This is not a fire Wojo thread, per se.

[Pakuni]

Tipping point is when the fans back off (or my definition).

Gotcha.
I actually believe much of the criticism directed toward Wojo here is fair and valid. He's made strategic/roster errors that led to significant problems ... like being forced to play two sub-6' guards backed up with no rim protection last year, leading to an awful defense. And his inability to pull the team out of its late-season nosedive is troubling, unless Markus is more hurt than we've been led to believe.
But I also believe a lot of the most vocal criticism comes from people who are just pissed off that he's not Buzz.

Anyhow, I don't know if there is a tipping point for when fans back off. A deep tourney run next year might get some off his case for a few months, but they'll be back calling for his head if the team doesn't repeat that the next year. And the year after that. That's fine. Such is the life in big-time college athletics.
Me personally ... I'm a bit of a Wojo agnostic. I'm not yet a believer, but I won't rule out that he can be a good coach.

[Cheeks]

For all the BE will be power conference every year folks, aside from Wright (and Wojo), are there more than two other guys you would want to lead MU? If not, where does the confidence in the conference come from? Take Wright out of the mix, and I would not want any of these stiffs running our program.

Simple.  Major television deal, recruiting classes that are signed, past performance (which doesn’t always mean future returns), huge commitment by schools to succeed.

This conference was inexperienced this year and everyone knew that.  Next year we take a step back up, not where it was last year, but better than this year. 

[Galway Eagle]

Several = number of times in tournament.  Sorry you don’t like the result, I don’t either and neither does Wojo, but doesn’t change that we have gone back several times in last three years.

Not to be side with willie but I was curious who was right in this argument and if you type in definition of several on google it comes up as "more than two but not many" just saying

[Cheeks]

Not to be side with willie but I was curious who was right in this argument and if you type in definition of several on google it comes up as "more than two but not many" just saying

Other definitions mean “more than one”.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/several

[Goose]

Dr. B

Wright, followed by fill in the blank based off your preference. Cooley is probably best of the rest and not informed enough to go past him.

[Galway Eagle]

Other definitions mean “more than one”.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/several

Thank you I can cleanse myself of any agreement with willie.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. B

Wright, followed by fill in the blank based off your preference. Cooley is probably best of the rest and not informed enough to go past him.

This conference has two NBA HOF’s as coaches....and MU plays each at least two times per yer, yet no opinions?  Sorry Goose...that’s weak sauce.

[Goose]

Dr. B

I said that I would not want any of these stiffs coaching at MU. That seems pretty straight forward to me. Aside from Wright, not much in the coaching cupboard any more in the BE.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. B

I said that I would not want any of these stiffs coaching at MU. That seems pretty straight forward to me. Aside from Wright, not much in the coaching cupboard any more in the BE.

Sorry Goose, and I mean this in a very respectful way, but essentially you are saying every coach in the Big East should be fired except Wright. That reads like an emotional rant and not an informed opinion. I think some of your posts could benefit from adding more specifics so the rest of us can understand your POV and history better. Posters here that get you, know you personally. The rest of us need context.

[Goose]

Dr. B
Fair point. I think the best of the rest coaches in BE are guys that have a system in place and build off it. At the moment, Creighton, Providence, SH and St. John’s know the style of play they want to play and recruit within that box. All four programs likely high a somewhat low national ceiling, but likely will be as expected most years.
Would I fire every coach in the league if I were a fan of other programs? That really would depend on expectations I had of that program. The guy at Creighton probably is making the most out of little. So, he would be meeting my expectations. That said, my expectations for MU are higher than what Creighton should expect.
I love the players Mullins gets, but would question how hard he works. I am sure he wants to win big, but there appears to be a lot missing out there in regards to success.
I have read on here many times others questioning the abilities of other BE coaches and everyone seems to agree at the moment. I basically am taking dozens of other’s opinions and painting with a wide brush.
To sum it up, none of these guys seem to be destined for greatness moving forward. If MU had a job opening, I would not be hoping to land anyone on the BE list. Would you?

[CTWarrior]

Not sure what you mean by my tipping point.
But my rankings:
Wright
Cooley
McDermott
Willard
Wojo
Jordan
Leitao
Ewing
Steele
Mullin

This is very close to what I would have generated for a list, though I have a feeling Ewing might turn out to be pretty good if he stays in the college game.

[MU82]

I want to see your ranking along with Cheeks and 82.

Wright
Wojo
Cooley, Willard, McDermott interchangeable
"Incompletes" for Jordan, Ewing, Steele
Leitao
Mullin