Murray State.... and beyond.

[Cheeks]

Right, well you just proved the assertion that Wojo failed. If they could play with toughness and win games except the last 7 or 8, then the players have the ability to succeed. The coaches didn’t get it out of them when it mattered most. The fact of the matter is they played like crap the last 7 or so games of the season. This isn’t a case of a hot mid major upset in the tournament. The injury and being tired argument is a joke. If they are healthy enough to play in the game then they need to perform. If being tired is an excuse in the biggest games of the year then this team is as soft as a marshmallow.

I am not one to over react and call for the coaches head every time they lose. But the coaching staff bears responsibility for this collapse no question. To claim otherwise you are sticking your head in the sand.

 And your repeated response of “Who are you going to get that is better” is a ridiculous argument fitting of the Chico way. Joe Schmo MUScoop poster isn’t the person who gets to pick the coaches. If a coach isn’t the right guy, then a change should be made. I am pretty sure there are plenty of qualified candidates.

Which is why I showed the list of top assistants, and how none of them have been home run hires that so many seem to demand and think we are entitled to.

[Cheeks]

Sorry that is unfair. I should have added the word “must” as in speculation. I see the majority of MU students being from Illinois, but I see no (as in zero) MUBB chatter about Illinois recruits. No mentions in pool that has been strong in the burbs for quite some time, including the kid from Rolling Meadows and the a traditionally strong ESCC and the CCL. 

I guess the charter doesn’t fly to PWK or DuPage airports? No effort at all in Chicago from the looks and sound of things. I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Ed Morrow went to Simeon

[Dr. Blackheart]

Ed Morrow went to Simeon

Again Cheeks...catch up with the thread and read completely instead posting indiscriminately.  I know it’s hard switching back and forth between your screen names.  I said HIGH SCHOOL recruiting...not transfers or walk-ones.

[Cheeks]

Again Cheeks...catch up with the thread and read completely instead posting indiscriminately.  I know it’s hard switching back and forth between your screen names.  I said HIGH SCHOOL recruiting...not transfers or walk-ones.

Sorry to disappoint you on the name switching. I have offered a charity scenario to prove you all wrong and in the process the donations go to help sick children, win win.  I sent a note out last night to a few posters here to set that up.  Hopefully it does and you will contribute to the fun.

Looks like Pakuni addressed your cheddar curtain comments. 

[Pakuni]

Again Cheeks...catch up with the thread and read completely instead posting indiscriminately.  I know it’s hard switching back and forth between your screen names.  I said HIGH SCHOOL recruiting...not transfers or walk-ones.

Serious question ... does it matter where a recruit comes from?
It doesn't to me, and I don't think many complained (or at least complained with merit) that the previous coach's best players came from Texas and Georgia and North Carolina, not Illinois and Minnesota. I'm getting old and forgetful, but I can't recall a single impact player Buzz brought in from the Land of Lincoln. (Steve Taylor, Reggie Smith = not impact players).

The other thing to remember is that Chicago hasn't produced a ton of high school talent in recent years, for various reasons, including top kids leaving the state to prep elsewhere.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Serious question ... does it matter where a recruit comes from?
It doesn't to me, and I don't think many complained (or at least complained with merit) that the previous coach's best players came from Texas and Georgia and North Carolina, not Illinois and Minnesota. I'm getting old and forgetful, but I can't recall a single impact player Buzz brought in from the Land of Lincoln. (Steve Taylor, Reggie Smith = not impact players).

The other thing to remember is that Chicago hasn't produced a ton of high school talent in recent years, for various reasons, including top kids leaving the state to prep elsewhere.

Why wouldn’t you at least try to recruit in a market an hour and a half drive? You have to pay your dues...you a program like MU just can’t show up.

As to Chicagoland talent...are you serious?  Wisconsin put together F4 runs with Frank and Ben.  Kentucky with Ulis and Davis.  Pryor at Georgetown from ND Prep.  Matthews at Michigan.  Brunson from Stevenson. 
Hell, even O’Mara from X.  The Rolling Meadows freshman is supposed to be #1 in the country.  You have to make a presence.  If Wojo has other pipelines, that’s a great place to be efficient...but a program needs to plant long term roots in your backyard (MKE and Chicago) too.

As to Buzz

[Cheeks]

Why wouldn’t you at least try to recruit in a market an hour and a half drive? You have to pay your dues...you a program like MU just can’t show up.

As to Chicagoland talent...are you serious?  Wisconsin put together F4 runs with Frank and Ben.  Kentucky with Ulis and Davis.  Pryor at Georgetown from ND Prep.  Matthews at Michigan.  Brunson from Stevenson. 
Hell, even O’Mara from X.  The Rolling Meadows freshman is supposed to be #1 in the country.  You have to make a presence.  If Wojo has other pipelines, that’s a great place to be efficient...but a program needs to plant long term roots in your backyard (MKE and Chicago) too.

As to Buzz

How do you know he isn't making a presence?  Honestly asking

[Dr. Blackheart]

How do you know he isn't making a presence?  Honestly asking

Again Cheeks, read threads completely before you post indiscriminately.  As I said earlier, if MU has, great.

But you very well know if MU has, there would be news/buzz on it just as there has been for every recruit MU has been after in the five years he has been here.  The please  read the 1.1 million message recruiting thread for your proof.

[Pakuni]

Why wouldn’t you at least try to recruit in a market an hour and a half drive? You have to pay your dues...you a program like MU just can’t show up.

As to Chicagoland talent...are you serious?  Wisconsin put together F4 runs with Frank and Ben.  Kentucky with Ulis and Davis.  Pryor at Georgetown from ND Prep.  Matthews at Michigan.  Brunson from Stevenson. 
Hell, even O’Mara from X.  The Rolling Meadows freshman is supposed to be #1 in the country.  You have to make a presence.  If Wojo has other pipelines, that’s a great place to be efficient...but a program needs to plant long term roots in your backyard (MKE and Chicago) too.

Are you serious?
Frank Kaminsky and Anthony Davis were high school classes of 2011. Brust was high school class of 2010.  Rodney Pryor graduated high school in 2011 and was so highly recruited he went to JUCO and then Robert Morris, before going to Georgetown as a grad transfer.
These are not recent classes. These are kids that left high school 4+ years before Wojo first recruiting class at Marquette. Very relevant to your complaints about him not recruiting of Chicago. It's telling that you could only name one player (Brunson) who Wojo could have even recruited to Marquette.

Two more points ... I named several Chicago-area players Wojo did recruit or is recruiting. No comment?
The Rolling Meadows freshman is actually a sophomore, and not #1 in country.

[Eldon]

Are you serious?
Frank Kaminsky and Anthony Davis were high school classes of 2011. Brust was high school class of 2010.  Rodney Pryor graduated high school in 2011 and was so highly recruited he went to JUCO and then Robert Morris, before going to Georgetown as a grad transfer.
These are not recent classes. These are kids that left high school 4+ years before Wojo first recruiting class at Marquette. Very relevant to your complaints about him not recruiting of Chicago. It's telling that you could only name one player (Brunson) who Wojo could have even recruited to Marquette.

Two more points ... I named several Chicago-area players Wojo did recruit or is recruiting. No comment?
The Rolling Meadows freshman is actually a sophomore, and not #1 in country.

Is MU actually recruiting them, i.e., showing up to their games, making visits, etc.?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Are you serious?
Frank Kaminsky and Anthony Davis were high school classes of 2011. Brust was high school class of 2010.  Rodney Pryor graduated high school in 2011 and was so highly recruited he went to JUCO and then Robert Morris, before going to Georgetown as a grad transfer.
These are not recent classes. These are kids that left high school 4+ years before Wojo first recruiting class at Marquette. Very relevant to your complaints about him not recruiting of Chicago. It's telling that you could only name one player (Brunson) who Wojo could have even recruited to Marquette.

Two more points ... I named several Chicago-area players Wojo did recruit or is recruiting. No comment?
The Rolling Meadows freshman is actually a sophomore, and not #1 in country.

You are the one that brought Buzz and the lack of talent in Chicagoland, not me. I gave you the proven examples from that pool. Buzz was at least in on most of that talent and either lost or passed (I won’t get into his many high school misses).

So, back to the point of the topic, just to be clear I get your position...Wojo should just forget the Chicagoland talent pool? Makes sense then.

[cheebs09]

I thought we were in on Brunson early, but were out of it fairly early.

[Pakuni]

You are the one that brought Buzz and the lack of talent in Chicagoland, not me. I gave you the proven examples from that pool. Buzz was at least in on most of that talent and either lost or passed (I won’t get into his many high school misses).

This isn't rocket science, good doctor.
You complained about Wojo's lack of Chicago recruiting, so I named some of the Chicago-area players he did recruit or is recruiting. And I pointed out that the previous coach lightly recruited Chicago as well, with little such consternation from Scoop ... and with  talents like Ben Brust and Rodney Pryor there to be had.
I honestly don't recall Buzz being in on many high-level recruits from Chicago (and please do yourself a favor and don't tell us he was in on Jabari Parker). Who am I missing?

So, back to the point of the topic, just to be clear I get your position...Wojo should just forget the Chicagoland talent pool? Makes sense then.

Yes, a totally accurate summation of what I wrote.
No wait, it's not. It's something you just made up.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I thought we were in on Brunson early, but were out of it fairly early.

Yep...but his dad was going back to Philly to coach (didn’t happen due to a harassment charge...but it was clear Jalen was Philly-bound.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Buzz tried to get Charles Matthews

[Dr. Blackheart]

This isn't rocket science, good doctor.
You complained about Wojo's lack of Chicago recruiting, so I named some of the Chicago-area players he did recruit or is recruiting. And I pointed out that the previous coach lightly recruited Chicago as well, with little such consternation from Scoop ... and with  talents like Ben Brust and Rodney Pryor there to be had.
I honestly don't recall Buzz being in on many high-level recruits from Chicago (and please do yourself a favor and don't tell us he was in on Jabari Parker). Who am I missing?

Yes, a totally accurate summation of what I wrote.
No wait, it's not. It's something you just made up.

My bad...I missed your earlier thread on Wojo...I pulled a Chicos.  Mea culpa

[Pakuni]

Buzz tried to get Charles Matthews

Yep. Definitely one. Paul White, also.
And, of course, Malek Harris.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Yep. Definitely one. Paul White, also.
And, of course, Malek Harris.

Nunn too.  Incredibly, he passed on Ulis early.

Btw, Buzz losing Matthews to UK may have been the last straw from him...I think in February. I have heard that was when he went to the interim admin to get the Larry Williams extrajudicial academic standards pulled back to the NCAA minimum, he was told to wait for the new administration to take over....and that was that (although it was ugly anyway).

[Benny B]

Sorry late to the party... was busy pre-occupying myself with other non-basketball thoughts over the last few days to maintain sanity.

Not that you asked, but here's Benny's thoughts...

1) First and foremost, the title of this thread should have been some play on "broken heart" as in "Broke in Hartford" or "Broken Hartford".... it works on multiple levels, as follows:

2) It was a heartbreaking loss.  Despite the perceived doom-and-gloom of the 5-12 matchup, the game plan was sound... collapse on Morant and force them to shoot from the outside.  Unfortunately, Murray State shot a boggling 80% from downtown in the first half.  Credit to them... whether they knew what was coming or not, they were able to make MU pay the only way they could.  The most heartbreaking part, however: the tender behind the Marriott cash bar that was still set up for the celebration after the game (which obviously never happened).

3) The team is broken.  MU had as many as three key injuries going into the game.  One was well-known but extent was downplayed, one occurred very recently, and one's been rumored/lingering for a while now.  That said, injuries are a part of the game, but obviously, the team that played Thursday was missing all of the strengths of the team in the first half of the Nova game in Philly.

4) My God, some Scoopers have gone off the rails with their own broken spirits.  MU will be a preseason top-20 team next year, with an outside chance of being a top-10 team depending on how things play out.  The calls for Wojo to be fired have gone to plaid.

5) There's a reason Hartford hasn't been a first-round NCAA site in twenty years, and IMO, should not host again for another 20 years.  Of course take this with a grain of salt since MU fans have been in a brand new arena for a year, but the XL Center is a crater waiting to happen.  The Bradley Center - with all of its flaws and under-funding over the years - was a Fiserv Forum compared to the XL... though the Bradley Center was 10 years' its junior, the upkeep of the XL reminded me more of a Wrigley Field pre-Ricketts.  I felt like I should have seen nets in more than one place to keep concrete chunks from falling off the ceiling onto the heads of unsuspecting patrons.  Moreover, restroom shortages, concourse bottlenecks, and steep & narrow aisles aside (think upper bowl at BC... now make that the entire lower bowl at XL), the place just felt dirty walking in. 

But that's not the reason NCAA should overlook Hartford from site selection going forward... granted, traffic is what it is, but there was no police presence, no coordination, no planning for 15,000 leaving an arena all at once... the XL staff shuffled people out the nearest exit as soon as the game was over, and the crowd simply spilled out onto the streets, grinding vehicular traffic to a halt around the immediate vicinity of the arena... my daughter and I - waiting for the MUAA bus - had a choice of being trampled in foot traffic or stand on the curb where we were constantly being bumped into the street (we chose the latter).  Fortunately, as mentioned the traffic wasn't moving, so we weren't in any immediate danger, but if cars were moving on Church Street, it's not an exaggeration to say that we would have been taking our lives in our hands waiting for the bus.  Further, there was no shortage of confusion with movement in/about the arena, e.g. where to go for will call, what lines to stand in, etc.  Every NCAA event I've been to has had either info booths stationed, if not "local ambassadors" standing all over, on the streets surrounding the arena to help direct people, answer questions, etc.  I saw ZERO of this in Hartford.

Frankly, this isn't entirely on the NCAA... this is mostly on the host institution: UCONN.  Which makes a hell of a lot of sense seeing as how misguided by their own hubris they are... instead of considering the needs of eight out-of-town contingents (who happened to be where the majority of the economic impact was coming from) and seeking to make a positive impression on others, they effectively catered to the locals by doing the bare minimum and treating this as just another game that the state of Connecticut should feel honored that they were hosting.

[Ironically, Hartford, the Carolina's host the first round every year... ya' think it might be because they actually do a good job planning for the events and maintaining their facilities instead of assuming that everyone will clamor for tickets just because they are given the privilege of doing so?]

[jesmu84]

3) The team is broken.  MU had as many as three key injuries going into the game. One was well-known but extent was downplayed, one occurred very recently, and one's been rumored/lingering for a while now.  That said, injuries are a part of the game, but obviously, the team that played Thursday was missing all of the strengths of the team in the first half of the Nova game in Philly.

/quote]

Would you feel comfortable giving more specific details with regards to the bolded. At least listing the injured players and purported injuries?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Sorry late to the party... was busy pre-occupying myself with other non-basketball thoughts over the last few days to maintain sanity.

Not that you asked, but here's Benny's thoughts...

1) First and foremost, the title of this thread should have been some play on "broken heart" as in "Broke in Hartford" or "Broken Hartford".... it works on multiple levels, as follows:

2) It was a heartbreaking loss.  Despite the perceived doom-and-gloom of the 5-12 matchup, the game plan was sound... collapse on Morant and force them to shoot from the outside.  Unfortunately, Murray State shot a boggling 80% from downtown in the first half.  Credit to them... whether they knew what was coming or not, they were able to make MU pay the only way they could.  The most heartbreaking part, however: the tender behind the Marriott cash bar that was still set up for the celebration after the game (which obviously never happened).

3) The team is broken.  MU had as many as three key injuries going into the game.  One was well-known but extent was downplayed, one occurred very recently, and one's been rumored/lingering for a while now.  That said, injuries are a part of the game, but obviously, the team that played Thursday was missing all of the strengths of the team in the first half of the Nova game in Philly.

4) My God, some Scoopers have gone off the rails with their own broken spirits.  MU will be a preseason top-20 team next year, with an outside chance of being a top-10 team depending on how things play out.  The calls for Wojo to be fired have gone to plaid.

5) There's a reason Hartford hasn't been a first-round NCAA site in twenty years, and IMO, should not host again for another 20 years.  Of course take this with a grain of salt since MU fans have been in a brand new arena for a year, but the XL Center is a crater waiting to happen.  The Bradley Center - with all of its flaws and under-funding over the years - was a Fiserv Forum compared to the XL... though the Bradley Center was 10 years' its junior, the upkeep of the XL reminded me more of a Wrigley Field pre-Ricketts.  I felt like I should have seen nets in more than one place to keep concrete chunks from falling off the ceiling onto the heads of unsuspecting patrons.  Moreover, restroom shortages, concourse bottlenecks, and steep & narrow aisles aside (think upper bowl at BC... now make that the entire lower bowl at XL), the place just felt dirty walking in. 

But that's not the reason NCAA should overlook Hartford from site selection going forward... granted, traffic is what it is, but there was no police presence, no coordination, no planning for 15,000 leaving an arena all at once... the XL staff shuffled people out the nearest exit as soon as the game was over, and the crowd simply spilled out onto the streets, grinding vehicular traffic to a halt around the immediate vicinity of the arena... my daughter and I - waiting for the MUAA bus - had a choice of being trampled in foot traffic or stand on the curb where we were constantly being bumped into the street (we chose the latter).  Fortunately, as mentioned the traffic wasn't moving, so we weren't in any immediate danger, but if cars were moving on Church Street, it's not an exaggeration to say that we would have been taking our lives in our hands waiting for the bus.  Further, there was no shortage of confusion with movement in/about the arena, e.g. where to go for will call, what lines to stand in, etc.  Every NCAA event I've been to has had either info booths stationed, if not "local ambassadors" standing all over, on the streets surrounding the arena to help direct people, answer questions, etc.  I saw ZERO of this in Hartford.

Frankly, this isn't entirely on the NCAA... this is mostly on the host institution: UCONN.  Which makes a hell of a lot of sense seeing as how misguided by their own hubris they are... instead of considering the needs of eight out-of-town contingents (who happened to be where the majority of the economic impact was coming from) and seeking to make a positive impression on others, they effectively catered to the locals by doing the bare minimum and treating this as just another game that the state of Connecticut should feel honored that they were hosting.

[Ironically, Hartford, the Carolina's host the first round every year... ya' think it might be because they actually do a good job planning for the events and maintaining their facilities instead of assuming that everyone will clamor for tickets just because they are given the privilege of doing so?]

Benny,
You're wrong about the Hartford snafu.  I was literally just going to post this from yesterday's paper.  NCAA and CBS/Turner are to blame on the turnaround time between sessions and Hartford got the shaft.  Hartford planned ahead knowing the timing.

Jeff Jacobs: NCAA, CBS should be on the hook for leaving fans hanging in Hartford

https://www.nhregister.com/sports/jeffjacobs/article/Jeff-Jacobs-NCAA-CBS-should-be-on-the-hook-for-13711521.php

[Benny B]

Would you feel comfortable giving more specific details with regards to the bolded. At least listing the injured players and purported injuries?

I think we're all well aware of the injury to Markus' wrist after the tunnel shot at MSG.

As to the other two.... despite the parties being reliable, things weren't said directly to me, so not my place.  That said, they don't seem to be injuries that need to be covered up, so they'll probably be revealed in time.

Benny,
You're wrong about the Hartford snafu.  I was literally just going to post this from yesterday's paper.  NCAA and CBS/Turner are to blame on the turnaround time between sessions and Hartford got the shaft.  Hartford planned ahead knowing the timing.

Jeff Jacobs: NCAA, CBS should be on the hook for leaving fans hanging in Hartford

https://www.nhregister.com/sports/jeffjacobs/article/Jeff-Jacobs-NCAA-CBS-should-be-on-the-hook-for-13711521.php

First off, it's a puff piece by a local reporter.  Perhaps the NH Register constantly belittles Hartford the other 364 days/year, but this is an editorial from someone who - very likely - is relying on second-hand accounts from others to make his case.

That said, the turnaround had very little to do with the fact that there was no coordination with local law enforcement to accommodate mass movements of people to/from the XL.  Granted, I only saw what happened on one side of the arena, maybe it was a finely tuned machine on the opposite side, but traffic - foot and vehicle - between sessions could not be described any other way than chaos. 

I will admit that perhaps this is the way it always is in Connecticut, with people and traffic sharing the streets regularly, but I live in a metro area where Chicago has people stationed on nearly every corner in the loop to minimize pedestrian interference with traffic (and by doing so, vice versa).  So maybe it's a case of "this is how it always is," but nevertheless, the fact remains that you have eight contingents coming in from locales where this "isn't how it always is" and the City of Hartford needs to be more accommodating, regardless of what's happening at Black Rock or in the broadcast truck.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I think we're all well aware of the injury to Markus' wrist after the tunnel shot at MSG.

As to the other two.... despite the parties being reliable, things weren't said directly to me, so not my place.  That said, they don't seem to be injuries that need to be covered up, so they'll probably be revealed in time.


First off, it's a puff piece by a local reporter.  Perhaps the NH Register constantly belittles Hartford the other 364 days/year, but this is an editorial from someone who - very likely - is relying on second-hand accounts from others to make his case.

That said, the turnaround had very little to do with the fact that there was no coordination with local law enforcement to accommodate mass movements of people to/from the XL.  Granted, I only saw what happened on one side of the arena, maybe it was a finely tuned machine on the opposite side, but traffic - foot and vehicle - between sessions could not be described any other way than chaos. 

I will admit that perhaps this is the way it always is in Connecticut, with people and traffic sharing the streets regularly, but I live in a metro area where Chicago has people stationed on nearly every corner in the loop to minimize pedestrian interference with traffic (and by doing so, vice versa).  So maybe it's a case of "this is how it always is," but nevertheless, the fact remains that you have eight contingents coming in from locales where this "isn't how it always is" and the City of Hartford needs to be more accommodating, regardless of what's happening at Black Rock or in the broadcast truck.

He was a writer & columnist for the Hartford Courant for 30 years before joining Hearst Media and now his column appears simultaneously in all the New Haven & Fairfield County newspapers.

[tower912]

I think Benny B has the right of it with the injuries.    And I think they contributed to late season fade.     Markus is a given.   I believe Sam is nearly a given.    The third..... I don't know.   

[MUfan12]

I think Benny B has the right of it with the injuries.    And I think they contributed to late season fade.     Markus is a given.   I believe Sam is nearly a given.    The third..... I don't know.

Joey's foot would be my guess.