Stop the bashing

[Cheeks]

You actively rooted against your "favorite" alma mater for 6 years. Went after the coach and players personally, named called, promised scandal that never materialized, etc., etc., etc.

Meanwhile you've been all over the board lecturing folks about what being a good fan means. Sweet irony.

So much bullshyte here it is incredible.  I never rooted against my alma mater ever.  Absolute stone cold bullshyte. 

Why did I bother spending all the money to go to NCAA tournament games in Arizona, San Jose, etc?  Why did I bother flying to Milwaukee, New York, etc to cheer the team on?  Complete bullshyte And you know it.

You can love your country and hate the leaders of it, just as you can love your school and basketball program and find the coach to be an absolute scum bag.  Not that hard.

I went after players personally....I did say we collectively choked in a few games, and apologized for it.  Let me know when the folks here apologize for their comments as I did.   

Failed to materialize....oh I don't think so.  He gone.

[Pakuni]

If a shooter goes 0-20 in a game, I want someone else shooting the last shot. I guess we have different opinions on that.

If Markus Howard goes 0-20 in a game, I won't bash him for taking the last shot when he has a good look. I guess we have different opinions on that.

[Cheeks]

All this grinding in Markus....Sam was 1 of his final 6 including missing what was probably a one footer. 

It's funny watching people assume anyone else was going to make it.  No one knows.

[We R Final Four]

You quoted me with your response and replied directly to me....no assumption was needed, I simply read what you wrote.

I asked why you think "others" means you exclusively?

[We R Final Four]

If Markus Howard goes 0-20 in a game, I won't bash him for taking the last shot when he has a good look. I guess we have different opinions on that.

No doubt.

[Silent Verbal]

You can love your country and hate the leaders of it, just as you can love your school and basketball program and find the coach to be an absolute scum bag.  Not that hard.

So it was fine for you to hate Buzz and root for MU, but it's not okay for people to dislike Wojo and root for MU.  Got it.

[Cheeks]

I asked why you think "others" means you exclusively?

This is the first time you used the word exclusively and I'm not sure how you can say others and now say exclusively. You replied to me and quoted my response.  You've been on this ridiculous train that I cheer for UW-madison when I am the one here the coined the hyphen stuff years ago and have bashed them for well over a decade, but that's the road you usually go down.  I helped put together the Bo Ryan video to Green Day "listen to me whine" years ago that had some fun viral moments....but yeah, I'm a UW-madison fan.  Good Lord.

[Cheeks]

So it was fine for you to hate Buzz and root for MU, but it's not okay for people to dislike Wojo and root for MU.  Got it.

It's fine if you dislike Wojo.  Go for it. 

I know Wojo won't have us in trouble with NCAA rules or the Milwaukee police department, let alone splashed on the front pages of the Midwest's largest newspaper....you want to criticize his X's and O's, by all means go for it.  You think he is milquetoast and not the right leader, go for it.

It would be nice, however, if they could offer some praise once in awhile.  I didn't like Buzz for many reasons which are well known, but I still to this day say he is a very good coach, said often he should have been coach of the year his second season.  Etc, etc.  There are folks here that ALL THEY DO is rip on coach and player, 100%.  That's the difference in my opinion.

[Newsdreams]

Sam thought he was open.

So you think #2 is there as a coincidence? He is there because he is anticipating the pass. Once he sees pass is not an option he commits to Howard, smart D.

[We R Final Four]

? #2 was guarding Ed and sagging off to help on Markus' crossover.
He is not there anticipating the pass...he is defending Ed and watching for him to cut to the basket and then boxes him out.
There is no indication he even knows that Sam is even there, much less jumping the pass.
#13 sees that Sam is open and comes over to help late, and he certainly wasn't going to be able to steal the pass.
7.2 seconds left and MH spent too much time dribbling up the court.

Regardless, I'm done with this topic.
Selection Sunday!

[Cheeks]

? #2 was guarding Ed and sagging off to help on Markus' crossover.
He is not there anticipating the pass...he is defending Ed and watching for him to cut to the basket and then boxes him out.
There is no indication he even knows that Sam is even there, much less jumping the pass.
#13 sees that Sam is open and comes over to help late, and he certainly wasn't going to be able to steal the pass.
7.2 seconds left and MH spent too much time dribbling up the court.

Regardless, I'm done with this topic.
Selection Sunday!

2.4 seconds left when Sam says he is open.  Requires cross court pass by 5'11 guard through two players and a third playing center field.  To a guy that has missed 5 of his last 6 shots.

[Newsdreams]

? #2 was guarding Ed and sagging off to help on Markus' crossover.
He is not there anticipating the pass...he is defending Ed and watching for him to cut to the basket and then boxes him out.
There is no indication he even knows that Sam is even there, much less jumping the pass.
#13 sees that Sam is open and comes over to help late, and he certainly wasn't going to be able to steal the pass.
7.2 seconds left and MH spent too much time dribbling up the court.

Regardless, I'm done with this topic.
Selection Sunday!

Lol no one is going to guard Ed where he is, he took himself out of the final play by that point. #2 was ready to jump on that pass as they did for about 3 turnovers throughout the game. Yes selection Sunday.

[Goose]

An awful lot of posts on this topic. Seriously, Markus should take that shot and should every time. I am not in the camp of Howard being an all time MU great, but come on. He is the best scorer in school history and won many games for MU off that skill.
Guys can look at all the film they want and make armchair coach comments, but IMO they are misguided. Between the refs and last shot I think a lot was missed by folks on here.
Two things stood out to me, SH has better skilled players than MU. They have a more complete group of pieces than MU. Secondly, the boys almost stole a game against all odds stacked against them. While I wish we had more pieces, I was impressed they hung tough.
Lastly, Howard has been a very good college player for MU. Not my kind of player, but very good no matter your type of player. Any criticism of last play would fall into Wojo's lap from my POV. He has yet to show me that he is a game coach.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Exactly Goose.  Shooters should keep shooting.  And with antything less than 8 seconds on the game clock to go full court, there is no time to pass.  Plus, he created an open look. 

I do enjoy everyone's thoughts, though.  All sides have interesting angles. To me, the reality of the clock means it's star time.

[Its DJOver]

This is not intended as bashing, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about Wojo's decision to leave Joey in after he picked up his third.  That was the biggest mistake Wojo made all game IMO.  Joey was having a nice game offensively at that point, but a Freshman, in his second career game at MSG, I'm not sure I'd trust him enough not to pick up his fourth right away, which is exactly what he did.  Wojo sat Sacar for the entirety of the 1st half after he picked up two, but stuck with Joey after he picked up his third early in the 2nd.  Questionable decision that was multiplied by losing two players shortly thereafter.

[Cheeks]

This is not intended as bashing, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about Wojo's decision to leave Joey in after he picked up his third.  That was the biggest mistake Wojo made all game IMO.  Joey was having a nice game offensively at that point, but a Freshman, in his second career game at MSG, I'm not sure I'd trust him enough not to pick up his fourth right away, which is exactly what he did.  Wojo sat Sacar for the entirety of the 1st half after he picked up two, but stuck with Joey after he picked up his third early in the 2nd.  Questionable decision that was multiplied by losing two players shortly thereafter.

I agree, that was a risk and it didn't pan out for Wojo or team.

[tower912]

It was a risk.   He rolled the dice and lost.    Wojo sits Joey there and MU gets to the line up that finished the game or gives more minutes to Cain.   

[Pakuni]

This is not intended as bashing, but I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about Wojo's decision to leave Joey in after he picked up his third.  That was the biggest mistake Wojo made all game IMO.  Joey was having a nice game offensively at that point, but a Freshman, in his second career game at MSG, I'm not sure I'd trust him enough not to pick up his fourth right away, which is exactly what he did.  Wojo sat Sacar for the entirety of the 1st half after he picked up two, but stuck with Joey after he picked up his third early in the 2nd.  Questionable decision that was multiplied by losing two players shortly thereafter.

I understand what you're saying and it's a fair question, but it's also incumbent on Joey there not to pick up his fourth foul less than a minute after picking up his third. Silly frosh mistake. Generally, having a player with three fouls on the court early in the second half isn't especially risky.
In hindsight, though, it worked out poorly and perhaps more caution was warranted.

[Its DJOver]

I understand what you're saying and it's a fair question, but it's also incumbent on Joey there not to pick up his fourth foul less than a minute after picking up his third. Silly frosh mistake. Generally, having a player with three fouls on the court early in the second half isn't especially risky.
In hindsight, though, it worked out poorly and perhaps more caution was warranted.

Of course Joey should know better, but a Freshman shouldn't be put in that position unless absolutely necessary.  Wojo played extremely conservatively with Sacar after he got 2 in the 1st half.  He rolled the dice on Theo for the last minute of the 1st half, and got burned, and he rolled the dice on Joey in the 1st minute of the 2nd half, and got burned.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but if you pull Joey as soon as he gets his third, you can put him in immediately after the ejections, rather having to roll with Chartouny and Bailey for an extended period of time.  Wojo obviously didn't know the ejections were going to happen, but it was strange to be so protective of Sacar, and roll the dice with both Theo, and Joey, especially with so much time remaining in the game.

[jesmu84]

Of course Joey should know better, but a Freshman shouldn't be put in that position unless absolutely necessary.  Wojo played extremely conservatively with Sacar after he got 2 in the 1st half.  He rolled the dice on Theo for the last minute of the 1st half, and got burned, and he rolled the dice on Joey in the 1st minute of the 2nd half, and got burned.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but if you pull Joey as soon as he gets his third, you can put him in immediately after the ejections, rather having to roll with Chartouny and Bailey for an extended period of time.  Wojo obviously didn't know the ejections were going to happen, but it was strange to be so protective of Sacar, and roll the dice with both Theo, and Joey, especially with so much time remaining in the game.

Perhaps Wojo also realized Sacar had a technical. And to hopefully avoid any incident that might lead to a 2nd tech (since things were already chippy), he was more protective of Sacar than if Sacar would merely have had 2 personal fouls.

[dgies9156]

L:ook, I was as disappointed as anyone at the sh*tfest that was the Seton Hall game. But here is the reality:

1) Our guys played their hearts out. I saw hustle. I saw guys trying and we were within a moment or two of overcoming all the adversity in that game. Do you really believe even a year ago, we could have done that? I've seen growth. We've improved and while there is work to do, you see these guys grow as players and Coach Wojo as a coach.

2) They're college kids. They make mistakes. Give 'em slack for it. If it was the Milwaukee Bucks, I might expect a different outcome. But....

3) If our season was on the line and we were a bubble team, I might feel differently. But Coach Wojo said it best in press conference: "We're going to the NCAA! We have work left to do." In the greater scheme of things, Seton Hall meant very little to us.

4) We're going to Jacksonville... right  !!!!!!!

[Its DJOver]

Perhaps Wojo also realized Sacar had a technical. And to hopefully avoid any incident that might lead to a 2nd tech (since things were already chippy), he was more protective of Sacar than if Sacar would merely have had 2 personal fouls.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Even with Sacar sitting, Powell didn't do much in the 1st half, I believe he only had 4 points. If Powell started heating up, I think you would've seen Sacar back in the 1st half. 

Wojo generally has a pretty good feel about when he can trust players to play without fouling, but he missed bad on multiple occasions. What was the worst thing that could've happened if you put Matt in? He fumbles a rebound and then commits a foul? Well that's exactly what Sam and Theo did, only it was more costly because it was Theo's third and only would have been Matt's first.

[MU82]

An awful lot of posts on this topic. Seriously, Markus should take that shot and should every time. I am not in the camp of Howard being an all time MU great, but come on. He is the best scorer in school history and won many games for MU off that skill.
Guys can look at all the film they want and make armchair coach comments, but IMO they are misguided. Between the refs and last shot I think a lot was missed by folks on here.
Two things stood out to me, SH has better skilled players than MU. They have a more complete group of pieces than MU. Secondly, the boys almost stole a game against all odds stacked against them. While I wish we had more pieces, I was impressed they hung tough.
Lastly, Howard has been a very good college player for MU. Not my kind of player, but very good no matter your type of player. Any criticism of last play would fall into Wojo's lap from my POV. He has yet to show me that he is a game coach.

Goose, I agree with all of this except "SH has better skilled players than MU. They have a more complete group of pieces than MU."

Even if I accept that Powell is "better skilled" than Markus -- and I'm not sure I do -- I would take Sam before any other SH player, and our supporting cast is at least as good at knowing their roles and performing them well.

In the gauntlet that is the college basketball season, Marquette had a better overall record, a better conference record, and more Q1 wins. We were the higher seed in the conference tournament, and we will be the higher seed in the NCAA tournament. Our strength of schedule was comparable to theirs. We split the regular-season series, each winning on the home court.

So unless you are giving Wojo credit for being a much better coach than Willard -- in other words, Wojo got more out of "lesser skilled" players -- or unless you are saying SH scoring a 2-point victory in Friday's shyte-show "proves" their talent is better, I'm not sure how you're judging it.

[Lennys Tap]

So much bullshyte here it is incredible.  I never rooted against my alma mater ever.  Absolute stone cold bullshyte. 

Why did I bother spending all the money to go to NCAA tournament games in Arizona, San Jose, etc?  Why did I bother flying to Milwaukee, New York, etc to cheer the team on?  Complete bullshyte And you know it.

You can love your country and hate the leaders of it, just as you can love your school and basketball program and find the coach to be an absolute scum bag.  Not that hard.

I went after players personally....I did say we collectively choked in a few games, and apologized for it.  Let me know when the folks here apologize for their comments as I did.   

Failed to materialize....oh I don't think so.  He gone.

"Other shoes" Chico at his bullshyting best. "I have a Marquette waste basket in my office", "I spent some of my money to go to a game (did I mention some "famous" people I saw at the game?)". Lots of promises, lots of claims of "inside information", lots of bull shyte.

[Cheeks]

"Other shoes" Chico at his bullshyting best. "I have a Marquette waste basket in my office", "I spent some of my money to go to a game (did I mention some "famous" people I saw at the game?)". Lots of promises, lots of claims of "inside information", lots of bull shyte.

You said I didn't cheer for MU, in fact actively cheered against them. A TOTAL, outright, 100% lie. PERIOD. END. OF. STORY.

Buzz is gone, and rightly so.  The place is refreshed with him gone and his antics.