Depression and anxiety among NBA players

[Cheeks]

Adam Silver says it is generational, not just a NBA thing.  He may be on to something

https://www.boston.com/sports/nba/2019/03/01/adam-silver-sloan-nba-unhappy

[GooooMarquette]

The levels of individualism and cutthroat competition might be generational. I'll let others debate that.

But depression, anxiety and other forms of mental illness have always been around, and often have genetic and familial lineage that leads to tenacious persistence across generations. IMHO the most significant change is the increase in recognition and treatment because of the (gradual) destigmatization of mental illness.

[Cheeks]

The levels of individualism and cutthroat competition might be generational. I'll let others debate that.

But depression, anxiety and other forms of mental illness have always been around, and often have genetic and familial lineage that leads to tenacious persistence across generations. IMHO the most significant change is the increase in recognition and treatment because of the (gradual) destigmatization of mental illness.

I wonder with today’s technology, our push to be with people less and digitially more, has that impacted our well being?

[warriorchick]

The levels of individualism and cutthroat competition might be generational. I'll let others debate that.

But depression, anxiety and other forms of mental illness have always been around, and often have genetic and familial lineage that leads to tenacious persistence across generations. IMHO the most significant change is the increase in recognition and treatment because of the (gradual) destigmatization of mental illness.

Definitely. For example, I think it is  a relatively recent determination that a lot of people express anxiety as anger, so a lot of people in the past who were simply written off as having an explosive temper are now recognized as suffering from anxiety.

[Lennys Tap]

Definitely. For example, I think it is  a relatively recent determination that a lot of people express anxiety as anger, so a lot of people in the past who were simply written off as having an explosive temper are now recognized as suffering from anxiety.

Agree with this (and what Gooo said).

And regarding another popular Superbar thread maybe some Scoopers would like to amend their Bob Knight comments. A genius with undiagnosed mental health issues is a little more sympathetic than a monster that some portray.

[MU82]

Agree with this (and what Gooo said).

And regarding another popular Superbar thread maybe some Scoopers would like to amend their Bob Knight comments. A genius with undiagnosed mental health issues is a little more sympathetic than a monster that some portray.

That certainly is possible about Knight, Lenny.

Kind of as with my investing, the only things I can operate under are "known knowns." So while it's very generous of you to state that this might have been a possibility with Knight, I'm not going to give him a pass for choking, shoving and kicking 18-22 year olds because he might have had a mental illness.

[Benny B]

That certainly is possible about Knight, Lenny.

Kind of as with my investing, the only things I can operate under are "known knowns." So while it's very generous of you to state that this might have been a possibility with Knight, I'm not going to give him a pass for choking, shoving and kicking 18-22 year olds because he might have had a mental illness.

Might have a mental illness?  FFS, he coached at IU.  Case closed.

[MU82]

Might have a mental illness?  FFS, he coached at IU.  Case closed.

True, true.

[Pakuni]

Agree with this (and what Gooo said).

And regarding another popular Superbar thread maybe some Scoopers would like to amend their Bob Knight comments. A genius with undiagnosed mental health issues is a little more sympathetic than a monster that some portray.

I'm not going to give Knight a pass for his behavior because "Who knows, maybe he had a mental illness." By that standard, maybe nobody should be criticized or face consequences for any behavior because, who knows, maybe he/she was mentally ill.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Scoop is a place for us to self-medicate, hey?

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not going to give Knight a pass for his behavior because "Who knows, maybe he had a mental illness." By that standard, maybe nobody should be criticized or face consequences for any behavior because, who knows, maybe he/she was mentally ill.

I don't excuse his (or anyone's) bad behavior. But when I see someone who can be both a disciplined genius and an out of control maniac my first instinct isn't to praise or condemn - it's to scratch my head and wonder why.

[warriorchick]

I'm not going to give Knight a pass for his behavior because "Who knows, maybe he had a mental illness." By that standard, maybe nobody should be criticized or face consequences for any behavior because, who knows, maybe he/she was mentally ill.

You can still be criticized if you refuse to deal with it and it is harming others.

If you are doing your best to treat it with therapy, medication, coping mechanisms, etc., I am going to respect you a lot more than a person who says. "F*ck you!  It's just the way I am! If you don't like it, stop doing things that set me off!"

[Pakuni]

I don't excuse his (or anyone's) bad behavior. But when I see someone who can be both a disciplined genius and an out of control maniac my first instinct isn't to praise or condemn - it's to scratch my head and wonder why.

Bob Knight isn't exactly a man of mystery. There have been multiple books, magazine articles and even a 30 for 30 that delved into his life story and what makes him tick.

[MU82]

A truly reprehensible human being who physically assaulted young men under his charge just because they didn't play basketball the way he wanted them to.

Yes, he might have been mentally ill. Hitler and Dahmer might have been mentally ill, too. And no, I'm not saying Knight was as bad as Hitler and Dahmer; just not loving the "might have been mentally ill" defense.

[Jon]

Adam Silver says it is generational, not just a NBA thing.  He may be on to something

https://www.boston.com/sports/nba/2019/03/01/adam-silver-sloan-nba-unhappy

Perhaps it's all the sport f#cking those guys do that ultimately cheapens the sexual experience in general.

My God, can a man imagine a scenario as depressing as turning down a superior piece of tail to stay in and watch Gilligan's Island reruns?

Depressing does not begin to do justice to such an alarming eventuality. I guess a man drinking Dom Perignon every day ultimately pushes away from the bar.

[GooooMarquette]

You can still be criticized if you refuse to deal with it and it is harming others.

If you are doing your best to treat it with therapy, medication, coping mechanisms, etc., I am going to respect you a lot more than a person who says. "F*ck you!  It's just the way I am! If you don't like it, stop doing things that set me off!"

Bingo.

The best a person can do is the best a person can do. If the person has a mental illness and is doing everything he/she can do to treat it, who are we to say they are "bad" people?

[Lennys Tap]

You can still be criticized if you refuse to deal with it and it is harming others.

If you are doing your best to treat it with therapy, medication, coping mechanisms, etc., I am going to respect you a lot more than a person who says. "F*ck you!  It's just the way I am! If you don't like it, stop doing things that set me off!"

Agreed. But geniuses (and rich people) seem to generally have plenty of admirers/hangers on telling them "you're OK, in fact you're great!". And in Knight's generation mental health issues carried a much greater stigma than they do today.

[warriorchick]

Agreed. But geniuses (and rich people) seem to generally have plenty of admirers/hangers on telling them "you're OK, in fact you're great!". And in Knight's generation mental health issues carried a much greater stigma than it does today.

And was diagnosed a lot less often as well.

[Lennys Tap]

And was diagnosed a lot less often as well.

True.

[Benny B]

My God, can a man imagine a scenario as depressing as turning down a superior piece of tail to stay in and watch Gilligan's Island reruns?

I've been told that the number of professional athletes who have been feigning such attraction for decades is disproportionately higher than that of the general population.

So no imagination necessary, apparently.

[GB Warrior]

Adam Silver says it is generational, not just a NBA thing.  He may be on to something

https://www.boston.com/sports/nba/2019/03/01/adam-silver-sloan-nba-unhappy

I think it is partially generational. My generation seems to be "more stressed". My 2 cents is that the connectedness has driven a lot of this - we are more plugged in and yet more siloed and disconnected at at the same time.

In the context of the NBA, that the players are so connected to the fans is both a blessing and a curse.

[Jockey]

I'm not going to give Knight a pass for his behavior because "Who knows, maybe he had a mental illness." By that standard, maybe nobody should be criticized or face consequences for any behavior because, who knows, maybe he/she was mentally ill.

+1000

[real chili 83]

A truly reprehensible human being who physically assaulted young men under his charge just because they didn't play basketball the way he wanted them to.

Yes, he might have been mentally ill. Hitler and Dahmer might have been mentally ill, too. And no, I'm not saying Knight was as bad as Hitler and Dahmer; just not loving the "might have been mentally ill" defense.

j

Mike, we get it....you don't like him.

[mudeltaforcegurl]

I was in a 2 year relationship with a guy that was diagnosed bipolar. It is a truly frightening thing to experience someone with mental illness not on their medication and clearly unable to control their behavior. It was literally like a flip of a switch- one moment happy and energetic and the next in a fit of rage.

On other hand mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety don’t manifest  themselves with sudden outbursts of anger. Most sufferers tend to withdraw, and when properly medicated lead completely normal lives.

[MU82]

Mike, we get it....you don't like him.

But I do like Real Chili! Nothing reprehensible about that delicious concoction!!

[Babybluejeans]

On other hand mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety don’t manifest  themselves with sudden outbursts of anger.

This is simply untrue and your purported certainty about it is bafflingly naive. I hope you don’t work in medicine.

[Benny B]

This is simply untrue and your purported certainty about it is bafflingly naive. I hope you don’t work in medicine.

I would think that depression and anxiety would manifest themselves in other ways long before there are any feelings or outbursts of anger.  Anger as a symptom might finally be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but if all of the sudden an otherwise average person starts feeling angry one day, that's probably not depression or anxiety.

[mudeltaforcegurl]

I would think that depression and anxiety would manifest themselves in other ways long before there are any feelings or outbursts of anger.  Anger as a symptom might finally be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but if all of the sudden an otherwise average person starts feeling angry one day, that's probably not depression or anxiety.

Correct. I’m not sure what the other poster Bluejeans experience is otherwise, maybe someone blaming their anger issues on depression?

[MUBurrow]

Its cool to see Silver speak out on this, and it would be double cool if funding and support for the NBPA's mental health and wellness program were a part of the next CBA. I don't know how the NBPA funds that program, but a 50-50 match from the league would be a really nice gesture. Also not sure what % of teams have a mental health professional that travels with the team, but I think that in the next couple of years that will be more common than not. If it costs $250k per year for a team to have someone like that, I think the ROI would actually be pretty high for the teams.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I was in a 2 year relationship with a guy that was diagnosed bipolar. It is a truly frightening thing to experience someone with mental illness not on their medication and clearly unable to control their behavior. It was literally like a flip of a switch- one moment happy and energetic and the next in a fit of rage.

On other hand mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety don’t manifest  themselves with sudden outbursts of anger. Most sufferers tend to withdraw, and when properly medicated lead completely normal lives.

Anger is absolutely a symptom of anxiety.  So is panic.  So is compulsive behavior.

Anxiety and depression is not just laying in bed all day unable to face the world.  Like most mental illness, there is a complete spectrum for those with anxiety and depression.

And meds dont always work.  Brain chemistry changes, and the medication that has been working for many years all of a sudden doesnt.  Or the dosage needs changing. Or the doc needs to prescribe something else to counter some of the bad side effects of the primary medication.  That new medication might interact with the brain differently,  resulting in positive or negative changes.

I'm going on 20 years since I was diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety.   For the most part, people have no idea.   With meds and treatment,  I'm able to mask most of my symptoms.  Sometime I just have a crappy month---could be life or could be the anxiety.   

I spent 6 months last year trying to fix my dosing with my doctor.   This is after ending my treatment with a psychiatrist and having my primary doc prescribe for me around 8 years ago.  What changed? Nothing, really.  Just the medication stopped working like it had been.  Luckily, we have the meds in the right spot now, so I'm back to myself.  Some people aren't so lucky.

(I'm not sharing this for sympathy, rather to try to explain something that is unique to me.  No 2 people have the same issues and there is not a magic bullet.  I am a big believer in awareness, education, and reducing the stigma of mental illness, especially in men.)

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Anger is absolutely a symptom of anxiety.  So is panic.  So is compulsive behavior.

Anxiety and depression is not just laying in bed all day unable to face the world.  Like most mental illness, there is a complete spectrum for those with anxiety and depression.

And meds dont always work.  Brain chemistry changes, and the medication that has been working for many years all of a sudden doesnt.  Or the dosage needs changing. Or the doc needs to prescribe something else to counter some of the bad side effects of the primary medication.  That new medication might interact with the brain differently,  resulting in positive or negative changes.

I'm going on 20 years since I was diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety.   For the most part, people have no idea.   With meds and treatment,  I'm able to mask most of my symptoms.  Sometime I just have a crappy month---could be life or could be the anxiety.   

I spent 6 months last year trying to fix my dosing with my doctor.   This is after ending my treatment with a psychiatrist and having my primary doc prescribe for me around 8 years ago.  What changed? Nothing, really.  Just the medication stopped working like it had been.  Luckily, we have the meds in the right spot now, so I'm back to myself.  Some people aren't so lucky.

(I'm not sharing this for sympathy, rather to try to explain something that is unique to me.  No 2 people have the same issues and there is not a magic bullet.  I am a big believer in awareness, education, and reducing the stigma of mental illness, especially in men.)

Good to hear it is working for you. I am in the midst of a change myself, just coming out of the side effect haze. It is a great thing that we have many choices and options for treatment but dang if it isnt a b**** to get acclimated sometimes.

[Spotcheck Billy]

..

[MU82]

Anger is absolutely a symptom of anxiety.  So is panic.  So is compulsive behavior.

Anxiety and depression is not just laying in bed all day unable to face the world.  Like most mental illness, there is a complete spectrum for those with anxiety and depression.

And meds dont always work.  Brain chemistry changes, and the medication that has been working for many years all of a sudden doesnt.  Or the dosage needs changing. Or the doc needs to prescribe something else to counter some of the bad side effects of the primary medication.  That new medication might interact with the brain differently,  resulting in positive or negative changes.

I'm going on 20 years since I was diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety.   For the most part, people have no idea.   With meds and treatment,  I'm able to mask most of my symptoms.  Sometime I just have a crappy month---could be life or could be the anxiety.   

I spent 6 months last year trying to fix my dosing with my doctor.   This is after ending my treatment with a psychiatrist and having my primary doc prescribe for me around 8 years ago.  What changed? Nothing, really.  Just the medication stopped working like it had been.  Luckily, we have the meds in the right spot now, so I'm back to myself.  Some people aren't so lucky.

(I'm not sharing this for sympathy, rather to try to explain something that is unique to me.  No 2 people have the same issues and there is not a magic bullet.  I am a big believer in awareness, education, and reducing the stigma of mental illness, especially in men.)

Thank you for sharing this personal account. I find the information very valuable, and I wish the best for you.

[Babybluejeans]

Correct. I’m not sure what the other poster Bluejeans experience is otherwise, maybe someone blaming their anger issues on depression?

Ha, see some of the above posts...and, you know, the medical literature. Honest mistake you made, and probably a common one too.

[Benny B]

Anger is absolutely a symptom of anxiety.  So is panic.  So is compulsive behavior.

Anxiety and depression is not just laying in bed all day unable to face the world.  Like most mental illness, there is a complete spectrum for those with anxiety and depression.

And meds dont always work.  Brain chemistry changes, and the medication that has been working for many years all of a sudden doesnt.  Or the dosage needs changing. Or the doc needs to prescribe something else to counter some of the bad side effects of the primary medication.  That new medication might interact with the brain differently,  resulting in positive or negative changes.

I'm going on 20 years since I was diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety.   For the most part, people have no idea.   With meds and treatment,  I'm able to mask most of my symptoms.  Sometime I just have a crappy month---could be life or could be the anxiety.   

I spent 6 months last year trying to fix my dosing with my doctor.   This is after ending my treatment with a psychiatrist and having my primary doc prescribe for me around 8 years ago.  What changed? Nothing, really.  Just the medication stopped working like it had been.  Luckily, we have the meds in the right spot now, so I'm back to myself.  Some people aren't so lucky.

(I'm not sharing this for sympathy, rather to try to explain something that is unique to me.  No 2 people have the same issues and there is not a magic bullet.  I am a big believer in awareness, education, and reducing the stigma of mental illness, especially in men.)

Strictly out of curiosity, was the initial diagnosis made by a PhD or an MD (i.e. psychologist or physician)? 

When I was 14 I was diagnosed bi-polar by our family practitioner (i.e. MD) after several visits with him and a couple outside referrals to psychiatrists. From what I remember, around that time, my mother was also diagnosed similarly and I had blood drawn on several occasions indicating low lithium levels... so I started taking lithium, which honestly, didn't do me a damn bit of good, so by the time I was 16, I wasn't taking anything anymore and made it through HS and college just fine.

A little more than a decade later, I was having concentration issues so my MD sent me to a PhD.  I had an initial consultation with the psychologist, my entire medical file (from HS) sent to him the following week, and after several tests over 2-3 follow-up appointments, he said flat out that I was misdiagnosed but was initially reluctant to say so earlier because the medical group that originally diagnosed me happened to be part of a pretty reputable organization in Gooooo's nick of the woods.

Turns out that - at least in my psychologists opinion - the MD that mis-diagnosed may have relied a bit too much on my mother's condition (who was going through a divorce) along with a couple of related incidents they qualified as "highly impulsive" behavior that was "beyond the realm of normality and all reasonable comprehension" or something like that: I had recently emptied my bank account to buy gold and silver coins that I turned around and was trying to sell on this new thing called the "internet."

The good news was that I was - albeit many years later - correctly diagnosed with an anxiety condition; the bad news was that the shop who sold me the coins was forced by my mother to refund my money... right as the gold market hit a bottom.  Had I been allowed to execute on my plan, I would have made enough to buy the new REM and INXS albums on CD along with one of those new Discman contraptions when metals prices rose 10% the next month.

tl;dr -- In my experience, the MD's seemed way to quantitative in diagnosing a condition that could be medicated, while the one psychologist I visited spent months with me trying to figure out what was going on with my neurons rather than sticking me with a needle and trying to draw conclusions based on the microscope slide.

So genuinely curious as to others' processes that led to their diagnosis.

[rocket surgeon]

great stories you guys, well, what i mean is thanks for sharing.  this is the part that helps bust the "stigma" associated with the aforementioned subject-for me, it was trial and error, patience, trust and quit the ack a hall-it's been 11 years and life does, believe me, keep getting better. i believe i scratched and clawed my way thru h.s. college and the first 10-15 years of private practice before realizing, this ain't right. fortunately no lasting damage, family and business intact.

      reading zig and benny- i will definitely be watching for a decrease in efficacy.  hopefully we be good for a while, but i never would have realized this not having read these personal stories-thanks again!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

For me, both.  The office that I went to was a psychiatrist's office but I also saw a psychologist (PhD, not masters level.)

[Cheeks]

I think it is partially generational. My generation seems to be "more stressed". My 2 cents is that the connectedness has driven a lot of this - we are more plugged in and yet more siloed and disconnected at at the same time.

In the context of the NBA, that the players are so connected to the fans is both a blessing and a curse.

You might be on to something there.

[Cheeks]

(I'm not sharing this for sympathy, rather to try to explain something that is unique to me.  No 2 people have the same issues and there is not a magic bullet.  I am a big believer in awareness, education, and reducing the stigma of mental illness, especially in men.)

Amen. Thank you for sharing.