Full Court Press

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I know some of us debated it before the year began, but is there any reason why we haven't seen more pressing?

Obviously the coaching staff knows way more about strategy (and the players) than me, but given our speed and depth advantage and size DISadvantage, it would seem smart to sprinkle in some more pressing in order to speed the game up.

I know that this isn't a risk free opportunity as MU will inevitably give up some easy hoops, but they might be able to wear down some opposing big men and at least neutralize a teams ability to run an offense through a post player.

Maybe MU should press right off the tip as a change up to try and get the guards into the game early...

Any thoughts?

[AlumKCof93]

I've wondered that myself.  Is Crean concerned about wearing the team down?  Is it foul trouble?  Is he so confident in our ability in our half-court defence that he doesn't want to risk giving up too many easy baskets in a press?

With our speed and lack of height it would seem that full-court press against teams with height like Louisville would be worth a shot?  I'm not necessarily passing judgment on this, but I am curious why we haven't seen it.

[Final Four or Bust]

We haven't seen it because he never uses it in conference play, for whatever reason.  I've been asking and pleading for it for the past few years and he brings it out a few times early in the season (which is often effective and gets me excited), then he runs half court sets in conference play and in the tourney.  I really don't have any answer, but I am sure some will tell me Coach knows best on this.

Really frustrating not to use one of the few solid advantages we have.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

He has addressed this in the past. I recall that Crean pressed a team only after the players pleaded with him to do so. I just think it's a philosophical thing.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

He has addressed this in the past. I recall that Crean pressed a team only after the players pleaded with him to do so. I just think it's a philosophical thing.

Yea, you could be right. Some coaches has certain things they stay away from. (Bobby Knight and zone defense for example)

It's not something Crean has really preached or prescribed to in the past, but given MU's depth at the guard position and lack of a skilled big, I would think that pressing might be the way to go.

In the past Crean has shown some ability to adapt his coaching style to his talent, but maybe pressing just isn't something he likes to teach.

I still think MU is a good team and will win a lot more games in conference play, but I think some adjustments in philosophy might be in order.

We shall see what happens on Saturday.

[Dish]

I think every other post I've had lately has expressed this same sentiment. I'm guessing PRN is right, that would seem to make sense I suppose.

MU's strength is creating turnovers, and their best offense is in transition. McNeal, Matthews, and James are all aggressive in their half court defensive game. Some would argue too aggressive. As "bad" as some people think MU's bigs are, a guy like Barro would be an ideal anchor for a full court press. Throw in an athletic four in Hayward, and MU has the guys to put 40 minutes of Hell on someone.

If Crean's worried about tiring guys out, he's got Acker and Cubes on the bench to spell guys. Three or four minute stretches of this would be really effective, IMHO.

[MUCrisco]

I've wanted us to press all along.  However, in order to be a good pressing team, you have to be commited to it every day in practice and from day 1.  I agree with PRN in that Coach Crean just doesn't believe in it.  Also, we run a ton of set plays in our half court offense and need a lot of practice time to do that.  Most successful pressing teams run a simple continuity offense so that they can spend more time on their press.  For example, Tenn runs the flex offense in their half court, which is a simple offense.  This allows them to work on their press and their transition game more.

[passion of da coach]

we may have guard depth, however, when it comes to trapping the ballhandler, James is 5'11", McNeal is 6'2", Cub is 6'0, Acker is 5'8",  more times than not the player we would be trapping is the same height or taller and just as quick, you can throw over the top of the traps.   All of a sudden you have a 2 on 1 situation with Ooze and Burke on the back line and they most likely will pick up some fouls. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I've wanted us to press all along.  However, in order to be a good pressing team, you have to be commited to it every day in practice and from day 1.  I agree with PRN in that Coach Crean just doesn't believe in it.  Also, we run a ton of set plays in our half court offense and need a lot of practice time to do that.  Most successful pressing teams run a simple continuity offense so that they can spend more time on their press.  For example, Tenn runs the flex offense in their half court, which is a simple offense.  This allows them to work on their press and their transition game more.

Yep, I think that is an accurate assessment and I know pressing isn't as simple as saying "We are going to press".

I guess I'm thinking that maybe MU could use it as a change of pace or different look to give teams.

I know MU runs a ton of sets, so you're right that the practice time is spent on offensive sets... the only problem is that our best offensive talent isn't really ideal for running 1/2 court sets.

3 of our guys are clearly best when they are in the open court (James, McNeal, Matthews). Any chance that MU has to get those guys into space will give MU a distinct advantage.

Like I said, we shall see on Saturday. I would not be surprised to see MU win 3 or 4 in a row at this point in the schedule. Other than getting blown out, I think the team is playing exactly like what I thought they would.

Oh also, this would have been a good question for coach himself on the TC show... I forgot about that.

[Dish]

Well put 2002MUalum, I think you're right on the money. The practice time didn't occur to me until you guys brought it up. And true, it's definitely not as easy as just saying "go out and do it", without putting time into it first.

All that said, as 2002MUalum pointed out perfectly, MU is clearly at it's best when McNeal, Matthews and James are given reign to cause defensive havoc and then get their offense in transition. I think if you gave these guys a chance, they would thrive. Barro and Hayward on the back end of the press would work fine, as athletic as they are. Barro's going to pick up fouls either way, so I don't see that as an issue. Our guards are all quick enough to rotate back to help.

[Final Four or Bust]

The only problem with all those theories is we HAVE pressed on occassions in the past, and effectively.  I recall one or two pre-season games we did it in, and I think we did some of it against Duke.  I also remember it spurred a comeback (or a win) against Rutgers last year (I think) where McNeal turned into a steals machine.  I remember that because it was so effective, then it disappeared.  So we've used it in the past, don't know why it doesn't come out more often.

I think we also used it to come back in the first round of the CBE (?) last year when we were down.

[downtown85]

Louisville seemed to press on nearly every MU possession.  It seemed to be a 3/4 press which was mildly disruptive.  They always had their bigs far enough back that we couldn't get behind it.  Sort of like a "bend, don't break press."  However, i do seem to recall that it achieved a couple of things: 1) MU had to work to get the ball accross half court on EVERY possession which is physically if not mentally tiring; and 2) we turned it over once or twice with a sloppy pass or two.  If you increase the other team's TOs by 2 or 3 per game with such a strategy, it's worth it given our depth and athleticism.  Plus, half court teams seem to get out of synch when they have nearly 10 seconds off the clock before they can set up.  Just a thought. 

[bilsu]

I would like to see us press more. Mostly, because I think we are only good at offense if we are playing a fast game. But I also believe that in general presses become less effective as the season goes on. A team in November is more likely to panic against a press than a team will in Febraury. Also, most teams in the NCAA tournament will have good ball handlers. Certainly you want your team to be albe to press, but you will not go far if that is all you can do.

[Marquette Gyros]

Count another vote for the press.  As much as ESPN's announcers gush over "the Big East style of basketball" when we play, we're not a strong, physical, size-dominated team. 

Instead, we're a quick, opportunistic, transition-focused club.  It doesn't take a great hoops mind to see how a press could create opportunities with this group and neutralize our size disadvantage.

For example, I see quite a few similarities between Tennessee and Marquette, though I'd give the edge in shooting and athleticism to UT right now.  Their best post player (Chism) is 6'8" and they rely on a host of guards to execute their game plan. When effective, their press flummoxes larger teams and sets up quick transition buckets.

Sure, it's less effective against teams with veteran guard play (witness UT's loss at Rupp tonight).  But I could see MU reaping huge benefits from pressing the larger, slower teams in this conference.  And there are more of those than you think.

[MUCrisco]

Don't get me wrong.  I've wanted us to press.  In fact, this is what I posted, back in april:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=2936.0

We were able to effectively press at times last year, because it wasn't our base defense and we took people by surprise.  However, if we were known as a pressing team, teams would prepare for that.  Because of that, we would need to spend the time in practice doing that.  Every coach that I've listened to at clinics, including Gary Williams, state they it needs to be a focus every day in practice and from day 1 in order to be successful.  Interestingly, Gary Williams also runs the flex offense like Tennessee. 

Our offense is just too complicated.  We run so many different things that we need to spend a lot of time in practice doing that.  You could say that we could change that and go to a simpler continuity offense and be right.  However, that is not what Coach Crean believes in.  He is a set offense guy and he likes having total control over the half court offense.  For example, it is his philosophy that a timeout should be called in end of the game situations to draw up a play.  Other coaches believe that you shouldn't call a timeoue so that the other coach can't set his defense and you will still get as good of a shot, if not a better one. 

So, knowing that Coach Crean is a set offense guy, along with a rebounding guy, a transition guy and a huge skill development guy, there just isn't enough time in practice to work on the press.  I think Coach Crean realizes that a press could be beneficial to the team and had good intentions of putting it in.  We had a thrad on this back in June:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=3248.0

However, I just don't think it is high enough of his priority list of what he believes in so he hasn't been able to put enough time into it during practice.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Louisville seemed to press on nearly every MU possession.  It seemed to be a 3/4 press which was mildly disruptive.  They always had their bigs far enough back that we couldn't get behind it.  Sort of like a "bend, don't break press."  However, i do seem to recall that it achieved a couple of things: 1) MU had to work to get the ball accross half court on EVERY possession which is physically if not mentally tiring; and 2) we turned it over once or twice with a sloppy pass or two.  If you increase the other team's TOs by 2 or 3 per game with such a strategy, it's worth it given our depth and athleticism.  Plus, half court teams seem to get out of synch when they have nearly 10 seconds off the clock before they can set up.  Just a thought. 

I hope you weren't taken by surprise by Louisville's press. I know Marquette wasn't. Pitino has been doing this for 20 years.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Don't get me wrong.  I've wanted us to press.  In fact, this is what I posted, back in april:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=2936.0

We were able to effectively press at times last year, because it wasn't our base defense and we took people by surprise.  However, if we were known as a pressing team, teams would prepare for that.  Because of that, we would need to spend the time in practice doing that.  Every coach that I've listened to at clinics, including Gary Williams, state they it needs to be a focus every day in practice and from day 1 in order to be successful.  Interestingly, Gary Williams also runs the flex offense like Tennessee. 

Our offense is just too complicated.  We run so many different things that we need to spend a lot of time in practice doing that.  You could say that we could change that and go to a simpler continuity offense and be right.  However, that is not what Coach Crean believes in.  He is a set offense guy and he likes having total control over the half court offense.  For example, it is his philosophy that a timeout should be called in end of the game situations to draw up a play.  Other coaches believe that you shouldn't call a timeoue so that the other coach can't set his defense and you will still get as good of a shot, if not a better one. 

So, knowing that Coach Crean is a set offense guy, along with a rebounding guy, a transition guy and a huge skill development guy, there just isn't enough time in practice to work on the press.  I think Coach Crean realizes that a press could be beneficial to the team and had good intentions of putting it in.  We had a thrad on this back in June:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=3248.0

However, I just don't think it is high enough of his priority list of what he believes in so he hasn't been able to put enough time into it during practice.

Nice post.

I think you are right on, and often times fans don't realize that changing something doesn't come at the cost of something else.

However (and I'm not trying to be an alarmist), after getting blown out in the last couple of games, maybe it's time to add a new wrinkle.

Bob Huggins employed a zone against MU as a "trick". I'm not sure that his zone was the reason they won, but it certainly wasn't something MU was expecting. I'm not saying pressing would do the same thing for MU, but given MU's depth at the guard spot it might work as simply a way to wear some teams down even if MU isn't "fooling" anybody.

We will see what coach comes up with.

[downtown85]

I hope you weren't taken by surprise by Louisville's press. I know Marquette wasn't. Pitino has been doing this for 20 years.

Not surprised.  I just thought it was effective.  It created a couple of turnovers and perhaps made MU's guards work more bringing up the ball.  I am not going to say it prevented us from setting up in our half-court offense because we don't really have one.  Most importantly, MU is a quick team and we couldn't go around or over the press, the way Louisville ran it.  I think Pitino is on to something. 

[Final Four or Bust]

The only problem is our "complex" offense looks far too uncoordinated and random far too often.  Some early season games we got to see it in action (esp. agst Okie State), but lately it has reverted to more of the same weave offense on the perimeter.  I don't know why we break down on offense as the season rolls on.

[MUCrisco]

That "weave" that you speak of is actually our base offense, which can be run if our secondary (transition) breaks down.  It can be the offense between our transition game and the set play with the clock running down, if there isn't enough time to run a set play.  Our offense can be described as our secondary, which is any time you are going from defense to offense, a set play or the base offense which is the attack, and a set play specific to the shot clock running down.  If there is a dead ball situation, then we usually just run a set play, then a shot clock set play.  It isn't so much that our offense is complex.  Perhaps I used the wrong term there.  It's that we run so many different plays, that it takes practice time to learn all of them.

As for the "weave", that offense is what Coach Crean refers to as the "attack" offense.  It isn't really a "weave" since that would refer to only 3 people involved in the offense.  Instead, it is a 5 man offense, which involves a series of dribble handoffs, pick and rolls, postups, and ball reversals.  Obviously, the goal is to get a shot in the lane, which is why they call it the attack offense.

[Final Four or Bust]

Obviously, the goal is to get a shot in the lane, which is why they call it the attack offense.

If that is the goal its failed too many times resulting in players jacking up rushed threes.  In fact, when I see the back and forth passing on the perimeter during a set I would bet each time there will be a contested three taken -- and I think I would win more than I lose.

Point being I've seen us run some very effective offenses this year, why we can't do it more is beyond me.  It seems that if the D stops our initial plan we run around on the perimeter and jack a three.  I don't understand it and haven't understood if for a number of year, but Crean is clearly teaching it as we have seen it for a number of years now.

[Big Papi]

I would rather not do a full court press but if we did, it would have to involve Trend in the five spot as Burke and Barro are not quick enough or athletic enough to be the last line of defense.  Also, as mentioned above are guards are very small in nature and can be easily passed on over the top. 

Instead, I wouldn't mind seeing us give token full court pressure on the pg bringing the ball up where we slow the other team down and than based on certain players and certain spots on the court, throw a surprise trap here and there. Just enough to speed the game up and maybe get a turnover or two but I don't think we have the players to do that consistently.

[MUCrisco]

When Cubillan was healthy, we use to jam the point guard like Southern Illinois does.  This means that we picked up the point guard full court, which was effective because it forced teams to start their offense higher, it put players in positions there were not comfortable with and it wore down the other teams guards.  Since he went down with that injury, it appears that we got away from that.