Bracketology 1/21/08, Lunardi doesn't like MU's non-conf sked

[Dish]

MU's a #4 seed this week, playing VCU in Tampa.

Here's Lunardi's comments:

Marquette
Do I detect a pattern here? The Big East teams who don't play non-league road games can't win there when the conference rolls around.

Why seeded here?
Marquette is lucky to be seeded this well after two stinkers on the road.

May change because:
Time to come home and feel artificially good again.

Good Wins
RPI 1-25: @Wisconsin
RPI 26-50: Providence

Bad Losses
RPI 101-200: none
RPI 201+: none

[MarquetteFan94]

How many Big East teams have the an OOC road win the quality of Wisconsin?

0

[77ncaachamps]

How many Big East teams have the an OOC road win the quality of Wisconsin?

0

But how many BE teams had a quality road victory like that one but get blown out by about 20 points handedly?

0

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

He must have a grudge against us or an "agenda" to criticize our schedule.

[MarquetteFan94]

He must have a grudge against us or an "agenda" to criticize our schedule.

I'm sure he has better things to do than hold a grudge against MU....but answer the question I asked then....name ONE Big East team with a higher quaility road (not neutral) win than Wisconsin? 

How many Big East teams have the an OOC road win the quality of Wisconsin?

0

But how many BE teams had a quality road victory like that one but get blown out by about 20 points handedly?

0

What's the point of that question?  I'm addressing what Lunardi said?  Pittsburgh had a nice NEUTRAL court win against Duke then proceeded to lose at Dayton by 25.  Georgetown lost at Memphis by 14.  Neither of them have a quality road win the level of Wisconsin.

[muhoops1]

I agree with Joe on this one.  Our non-conference schedule blows.  As a season ticket holder it's no fun to make the trip to watch the directional schools. 

I understand the reality and economics of it all.  I would rather see the team tested early and often.  I like Gonzaga's philosophy of anyone, any time, anywhere.  I realize their conference sucks, but still they make an effort.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

What are the economics and reality of it?

[mwbauer7]

I like Gonzaga's philosophy of anyone, any time, anywhere.  I realize their conference sucks, but still they make an effort.

Gonzaga and Memphis are in the same boat. (ie- they run away with their conference every year.)

[denverMU]

First of all Lunardi is wrong, we did play on the road, against currently #11 and a team he has as a #3 seed, and won! Next Gonzaga does not take on "anyone, anytime, anywhere".  They started with Montana, Idaho, and UC riverside.  They do play some hard teams but almost always at neutral sites. Finally they have to because they are in such a bad league not the BIG EAST!!

[RawdogDX]

How many Big East teams have the an OOC road win the quality of Wisconsin?

0

But how many BE teams had a quality road victory like that one but get blown out by about 20 points handedly?

0

It's been awhile since phill 001: Logic.
But i'm pretty sure this is just what happened:
1) How many A's exist where A = other BE teams with an ooc win as good as wisconsin.
Answer = 0
And you replied:
2) Well how many A's exist that also have a B (blow out loss)

Answer = 0
I'm pretty sure that if 1 returns a 0 then question 2 will always return a 0 regardless of what you use as a B.

[muPARTY]

First of all Lunardi is wrong, we did play on the road, against currently #11 and a team he has as a #3 seed, and won! Next Gonzaga does not take on "anyone, anytime, anywhere".  They started with Montana, Idaho, and UC riverside.  They do play some hard teams but almost always at neutral sites. Finally they have to because they are in such a bad league not the BIG EAST!!

"Good news everyone"... we may be 0-3 on the road in Big East play, but we were 1-0 in pre-conference road games (maybe it was 2-0 because Yahoo Sports is classifing the Chaminade game as a road game).

bottom line is our non-conf schedule was a joke.  the EA Sports T'Zagaourny was good and Duke was a good game and there's nothing to bad mouth about the Wisconsin win there, but the farthest true road game we played was 68miles away in the state.

Georgetown went to 'Bama and Memphis (loss) and Pitt went to Washington and Dayton (big loss).

'02-'03 MU went on the road to ND and Dayton (lost both), that year was bookended with road trips to Wisc & Wake Forrest and Wisc & Arizona

they don't need to book a top 5 team, but some home & home with a team from a competitive conference... Pac-5 (Oregon or USC), ACC (Florida St or Maryland), Big Ten (Purdue, Indiana, OSU), BIg 12 (Iowa St, K-St), SEC (Georgia, Arkansas, Vandy), or a good mid-major like Dayton, Xavier, Butler.

There's schools out there like Xavier, Dayton, Boston College, 'Zaga, which would be huge draws because of their tradition, ability, and they have the bonus of being a catholic school.

Marquette only does a disservice to the team, school, and fanbase by not scheduling two good/competitive true away games a season to prepare the team better.

[IAmMarquette]

but the farthest true road game we played was 68miles away in the state.

So the short distance traveled makes our win at UW less impressive than, say, a potential win at Dayton? Not sure I follow.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But how many BE teams had a quality road victory like that one but get blown out by about 20 points handedly?

0

Pitt is one I can think....Louisville I believe is another...G'Town didn't lost by 20, but by 14. 

[Marquette Gyros]

How about some middle ground, TC?  Instead of Savannah State and their ilk, why not schedule some mid-tier mid-major competition?

Nobody wants to play Butler, Winthrop, or Gonzaga, and with good reason.  And I understand North Dakota State beat us on our home court last year, the same year we had such a tough time with Valpo on the road. 

But it seems to me like playing some of the less-dangerous mid majors (e.g. Ohio U, Pepperdine, maybe even Creighton) would increase our strength of schedule and heighten fan interest in those December doldrum games.  I could see quite a few positives coming out of such a matchup with Creighton, for example.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gyros...do a search, the topic has been discussed ad nauseum the last 5 years.  Creighton isn't going to play MU without a return trip to Omaha.  Same for the others you mentioned.  We're stuck with home and away with Wisconsin every year and have one coming up with UWM.

[Marquette Gyros]

Chicos - I understand the principle behind the soft (with the exception of UW and Maui, of course) nonconference schedule.  18 games against Big East competition is absolutely brutal.

But how are we "stuck" with such a schedule, especially if it didn't fully prepare us as Lunardi insinuates?  Even if it does prime the team for the rigors of Big East competition, it doesn't satisfy the fan base, boosters included.

Maybe a trip to Omaha (or Athens, Malibu, or anywhere for that matter) wouldn't be such a bad thing, especially now that Creighton has tapered off a bit from their Korver-led early decade greatness.  What's the worst that could happen?  Road Ls to mid-majors are excusable.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

We're not "stuck." The athletic department could schedule those kind of games, but chooses not to for whatever reason. We've heard budget restrictions are the reason, yet we've played at Oakland and at Valpo in recent years. Also, at Wake Forest and at Arizona.

Last year there was nothing. This year, nothing.

Chicos will tell you that when he was there MU was forced to play a certain amount of "buy" games. That's fine. That was also 10 or so years ago and the budget of the department has CLEARLY changed as evidenced by some rather public spending.

Chicos, I know your heart is in the right place, but you cannot deny our non-conference home schedule the past two years has been an embarrassment and something could be done about it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

An embarrassment...no.  Typical of a major conference team...we've shown examples time and time and time and time again.

If you guys want the athletic department to schedule those games, then you have to complain to someone OUTSIDE the athletic department.  They are given their budget by the administration...it's that simple.

Go to the Father Wild, Greg Klihban's of the world.  The department is already subsidized by the university because basketball can't cover the $21 million expense of the other 13 sports...all money losers.

I can't make it more simple then that.  If you want better teams, then you have to go on the road more.  If you go on the road more, it means less revenue to the program...less revenue to the department.


I don't know why the failure to understand this is so problematic.  It's a very simple matter of money and the need for the number of home games that are played.

[NateDoggMarq]

An embarrassment...no.  Typical of a major conference team...we've shown examples time and time and time and time again.

If you guys want the athletic department to schedule those games, then you have to complain to someone OUTSIDE the athletic department.  They are given their budget by the administration...it's that simple.

Go to the Father Wild, Greg Klihban's of the world.  The department is already subsidized by the university because basketball can't cover the $21 million expense of the other 13 sports...all money losers.

I can't make it more simple then that.  If you want better teams, then you have to go on the road more.  If you go on the road more, it means less revenue to the program...less revenue to the department.


I don't know why the failure to understand this is so problematic.  It's a very simple matter of money and the need for the number of home games that are played.

Chicos Lets face it our schedule was horrendous and you live 2000 miles away so you have no idea how horrible it was to have your first big home come in JANUARY!!!!!! 

[MilTown]

This topic is so tired. This year we have played three major conference teams prior to Big East play. Granted these games were still on the road and at a neutral site, but they were quality major conference opponets and we played well, winning 2 out of 3.

Would I love to have a better pre-conference schedule with another quality home/home every year? Of course. I know season ticket holders and everyone agrees on that, but at the same time, I don't think it really matters. We have a 19 game Big East schedule every year. That is enough quality opponents for me. I don't buy into the belief that a better non-conference schedule will make us more prepared for the Big East. Bottom line is, if we play well in the Big East, and finish in the top 5 or 6 (this year they are predicting up to 8 BE teams) we will be in the NCAA's even if we play Marquette High and Tosa East in the non-conference schedule.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I don't know why the failure to understand this is so problematic.  It's a very simple matter of money and the need for the number of home games that are played.

That is absolute BULL! I believe somebody had a listing not too long about that had Marquette's spending on it's men's basketball program among the 10 largest in the country. On what? Limos? Breathing chambers? Overpaid assistants brought in to fill yearly vacancies? And they're still crying poor? How about reining in some of the extravagant spending and giving the fans who pay for this a decent home game once every two years?

Why is there a failure to understand that?

[muPARTY]

but the farthest true road game we played was 68miles away in the state.

So the short distance traveled makes our win at UW less impressive than, say, a potential win at Dayton? Not sure I follow.

less impressive, no.  but our only road win (and road game) happened almost 70miles due west.  the way it looked on TV Marquette had a very nice showing of support in the stands.  they always do in these games (as does Wisconsin when they play here).  i would like to see them play a true road game (not a neutral site tourny) that will better prepare them for going into places like UConn, Pitt, G'town, WV in both: on the court play and atmosphere... somewhere where 90% (or more) of the stands isn't cheering MU.

I've been to UD Arena.  one of the best college basketball experiences i've had.  it's not an easy place to play, and when UD is good, it's even tougher.  Pitt found that out this yr.  Marquette (w/ D. Wade and Rob Jackson) found that out too last time we played there.

so don't tell me that this schedule is a good one.  I'm not discounting the win @ UW.  it was great.  but MARQUETTE is 1-0 this yr in road games.  MU played one road game last yr, @ Valpo, and won on a last second 3.    there not playing road games is going to be the undoing of this team.  3 blowouts in their first 3 road games in conference.  forego one home game next yr, and go on the road.  go to a BCS conference school and play a mid-pack team @ their arena, then the next yr have them come here.

anyone who this this schedule helped them prepare for the big East is delusional

[The Lens]

We have changed absolutely everything with regards to MU basketball in the past 9 years except for this antiquated 16 home games revenue model.

I love how that is the only thing sacred (including George Thompson's number).

If Tom wanted to challenge his team in the non conf he could, the MU ath dept and MU Admin would find a way.  Heck, one donor could do it.  Our current staff likes the current set-up, so we're stuck with it.

[muPARTY]

Gyros...do a search, the topic has been discussed ad nauseum the last 5 years.  Creighton isn't going to play MU without a return trip to Omaha.  Same for the others you mentioned.  We're stuck with home and away with Wisconsin every year and have one coming up with UWM.

That's what we need here.  MU to go on the road to a hostile arena and play a decent team to prepare from and get better.

[muPARTY]

....
I can't make it more simple then that.  If you want better teams, then you have to go on the road more.  If you go on the road more, it means less revenue to the program...less revenue to the department.


I don't know why the failure to understand this is so problematic.  It's a very simple matter of money and the need for the number of home games that are played.

no-one is saying blow up the schedule completely.  2 decent road games a yr.  it's been:  Wisc/Wake Forrest, Dayton/ND, Wisc/Arizona, Wisc/Nebraska. 

i think a team that's better prepared going into conference and then the Tournament and goes further than the 1st rd will bring in more revenue than 2 fluff games a yr.  plus you'll get 2 sellouts (or near sellouts) when they have to come here, instead of those 12,000-13,000 they get for Savannah St or University of Maryland Baltimore County.  bigger games also get carried on channels other than Time Warner Sports, which adds to the revenue.