Ranking Wojo's Freshmen Recruits

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wojo has had fourteen players who were on the roster as freshmen.  I am including Sandy Cohen since he had to be "re-recruited" when he started.  Here is how I rank them based on their impact to date:

1. Markus Howard - potential BE player of the year and all-american candidate
2. Sam Hauser - would have been #1 pre-season
3. Sacar Anim - will be passed up on this list eventually but a solid two year starter and good defensive player
4. Henry Ellenson - BE rookie of the year and first team all BE
5. Joey Hauser - will be higher on this list next year, maybe even #1 before leaving MU
6. Theo John - potentially the best big man in 24 years, nine months and will also move up when all is said and done
7. Matt Heldt - solid but unspectacular big man
8. Haanif Cheatham - looked like he was going to be a key player after his freshman year
9. Sandy Cohen - looked better when the talent around him wasn't very good.
10. Greg Elliott - solid defensive player who hopefully can overcome his injury set backs
11. Jamal Cain - looked like a huge upside player after his freshman year but has struggled
12. Brendan Bailey - has potential that he has flashed at times
13. Traci Carter - point guard who couldn't score and had turnover issues
14. Ike Eke - hopefully we will get to see him play someday

[Galway Eagle]

I'd put sandy lower, I was never impressed by him. At leat Cain and Elliott have had their moments.

[BM1090]

Wojo has had fourteen players who were on the roster as freshmen.  I am including Sandy Cohen since he had to be "re-recruited" when he started.  Here is how I rank them based on their impact to date:

1. Markus Howard - potential BE player of the year and all-american candidate
2. Sam Hauser - would have been #1 pre-season
3. Sacar Anim - will be passed up on this list eventually but a solid two year starter and good defensive player
4. Henry Ellenson - BE rookie of the year and first team all BE
5. Joey Hauser - will be higher on this list next year, maybe even #1 before leaving MU
6. Theo John - potentially the best big man in 25 years and will also move up when all is said and done
7. Matt Heldt - solid but unspectacular big man
8. Haanif Cheatham - looked like he was going to be a key player after his freshman year
9. Sandy Cohen - looked better when the talent around him wasn't very good.
10. Greg Elliott - solid defensive player who hopefully can overcome his injury set backs
11. Jamal Cain - looked like a huge upside player after his freshman year but has struggled
12. Brendan Bailey - has potential that he has flashed at times
13. Traci Carter - point guard who couldn't score and had turnover issues
14. Ike Eke - hopefully we will get to see him play someday

Henry above Sacar. greg above Sandy. Haanif above Matt. Those are the few changes I'd make

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I would be on-board with all three and in fact I flip-flopped Henry and Sacar at the last minute.

[MomofMUltiples]

My hope would be that many of those players move DOWN the list as time goes by.  That would mean Wojo is recruiting better players than some of those in the top 5.

[BCHoopster]

Henry is the only pro so far in Wojo tenure, so to me he is number 1.

[Galway Eagle]

Henry is the only pro so far in Wojo tenure, so to me he is number 1.

This is terrible logic. Markus has had way more of an impact on wojos rebuild than Henry.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Based on college contribution to date:

1. Markus
2. Sam
3. Henry
4. Joey (will eventually pass Henry, probably on par with Sam)

Big Gap
5. Sacar
6. Theo

Smaller gap
Everyone else

[Goose]

Mom

I am with you. Aside, from Henry, the Hauser boys and Howard, I hope each one of those guys are far down the list a couple of years from now. Great progress this year (win/loss record), but still a lot of room to upgrade the talent pool.

[PJDunn]

I would drop Henry down the list.  His impact on the program's trajectory was negligible and his early exit to the pros turned out to be a bad decision on many levels.

[avid1010]

Mom

I am with you. Aside, from Henry, the Hauser boys and Howard, I hope each one of those guys are far down the list a couple of years from now. Great progress this year (win/loss record), but still a lot of room to upgrade the talent pool.

i'd take a theo john type big in most recruiting classes....we'll see where he ends up, but he's playing good ball for a sophomore...and big men aren't easy to find.  i'm not sure what MU's record looks like without theo this year...he really impacts the game. 

[BCHoopster]

This is terrible logic. Markus has had way more of an impact on wojos rebuild than Henry.

I agree with you that Markus has and will have the best career at MU under Wojo.  But to me the only names you remember are names that make the pros.  Wade,
Diener, Novak, Mathews, Crowder, Butler, the ones that were on the big screen at DWade coronation.  I think the Hausers have a chance, not sure about Markus yet.
Brunson looked awful small against the Bucks, and Brunson ate up Howard and Rowsey the last few years taking them low.

[Golden Avalanche]

Henry is the only pro so far in Wojo tenure, so to me he is number 1.

In a listing of impact college recruits under Wojo your first metric would be to ignore their college production?

This seems odd.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I agree with you that Markus has and will have the best career at MU under Wojo.  But to me the only names you remember are names that make the pros. 

That's not the criteria I was using.  I was using their contributions on the basketball court.

[Goose]

avid

John has had a big impact in a couple of MU wins thus far, no doubt about it. That said, I would be working very hard to upgrade that position on the recruiting trail.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

I’d put Henry, Joey and Theo above Sacar honestly, Joey and Theo have been in school less time but still have more of an impact than he does right now.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I’d put Henry, Joey and Theo above Sacar honestly, Joey and Theo have been in school less time but still have more of an impact than he does right now.

You can make a case for Henry.  By the end of the year probably Joey.  But Theo has only really been an impact player for about half a season.  Anim has had more of an impact in his time here.  By the time their careers are done, all three are likely ahead of Sacar though.

[Its DJOver]

avid

John has had a big impact in a couple of MU wins thus far, no doubt about it. That said, I would be working very hard to upgrade that position on the recruiting trail.

Agree that C is a position to address, especially if Ike never plays, but would it be an upgrade, or a replacement?  To the best of my knowledge we're done with 2019 kids, and any 2020 recruits would be freshman when Theo is a Senior.  Based on our current targets, I don't think any of them could, as a Freshman, be an upgrade over Senior Theo.  Getting a big in 2020 is important because Ed will be gone, and Theo's replacement will need an adjustment period.

[BCHoopster]

Agree that C is a position to address, especially if Ike never plays, but would it be an upgrade, or a replacement?  To the best of my knowledge we're done with 2019 kids, and any 2020 recruits would be freshman when Theo is a Senior.  Based on our current targets, I don't think any of them could, as a Freshman, be an upgrade over Senior Theo.  Getting a big in 2020 is important because Ed will be gone, and Theo's replacement will need an adjustment period.

Might be done with 2019 seniors but never forget grad transfers or transfers.  If Ike is done that opens up a scholarship and I hate to mention a transfer but
that can happen as well.  I just hope in the grad transfer market Wojo could find somebody a tad better than JC.   They might only have 11 players next year,  if
1 leaves that is 10.  There is room for another forward for this team.  Think they are OK at guard and center for next year.

[Its DJOver]

Might be done with 2019 seniors but never forget grad transfers or transfers.  If Ike is done that opens up a scholarship and I hate to mention a transfer but
that can happen as well.  I just hope in the grad transfer market Wojo could find somebody a tad better than JC.   They might only have 11 players next year,  if
1 leaves that is 10.  There is room for another forward for this team.  Think they are OK at guard and center for next year.

True but any traditional transfer would be sitting out the 2019-2020 season and not be eligible anyways until Theo is a Senior (barring medical red-shirt), and getting a grad transfer big would be an extremely tough sell for next year considering that we return 95%+ of our frontcourt minutes.  Always look to improve the team, but it would take an awfully good player to steal minutes from Sam, Joey, Theo, or Ed, all IMO.  If I had to guess, our last scholly will either be banked, or used on a traditional transfer to help lessen the loss of Ed, Sam, Sacar, and Markus after next season.

[GooooMarquette]

I'd put sandy lower, I was never impressed by him. At leat Cain and Elliott have had their moments.

Perhaps, but the Scoop intelligentsia awarded Sandy 2 SOTG's as a soph - that's 2 more than Cain and Elliott combined so far.

If we are awarding based on what they did/have done, Sandy wins. If we are awarding potential, that's another matter....

[MUBigDance]

“Based on their impact” you say. Different ideas on what that means. So not how good but impact on program.

Which brings me to my biggest dilemma: “Henry Ellenson”. Part of me sees his year as hurting the program and Wojo. Investment in someone who didn’t unpack his bags. Promises to a family concerning a brother who also disappeared. Agendas that seemed to use Marquette. Ellensons in a way the antithesis of the Hausers. Would Wojo and the program have been better off with no Ellensons?
On the other hand that year would have been a bottom 5 BE year without Henry. We beat The varmits which is worth a lot and Henry didn’t have an attitude. I can’t dislike him.

Henry’s impact should be graded lower than any of the 4year guys when all said and done. Matt, Sacar, etc.  IMHO

[wadesworld]

I would drop Henry down the list.  His impact on the program's trajectory was negligible and his early exit to the pros turned out to be a bad decision on many levels.

Huh? A bad decision to take millions of dollars he may have never gotten had he not made the decision he did?

Odd.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Theo best big man in 25 years?  Holy $hit!!

[Goose]

Sand Knit

Could not have said that any better. I do get a big laugh out of how some view talent and impact of a player. I have no doubt, that many on here have vastly over inflated John's value simply because they like his style of play/toughness. Best big man in 25 years? That really cracks me up.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I like his toughness as well but hes along way from the best.  Maybe the OP is 8years old,  but even then he has to remember DG?

[Bocephys]

I like his toughness as well but hes along way from the best.  Maybe the OP is 8years old,  but even then he has to remember DG?

Davante didn’t really do the things people typically associate with a “Big Man”.

I think Youssoupha Mboa should be the most offended. Name me one other center playing the top of a 1-3-1 zone.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I like his toughness as well but hes along way from the best.  Maybe the OP is 8years old,  but even then he has to remember DG?

No, I'm well over 40. I said "potentially" for a reason. He would have to continue developing. Will obviously never have Davante's offensive game however.

[muwarrior69]

I think Bailey will be an impact player if not next season certainly his junior season. JFB did not look like the player he is when he first came here.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

No, I'm well over 40. I said "potentially" for a reason. He would have to continue developing. Will obviously never have Davante's offensive game however.

Jim mcilvaine or amal mccaskil just to give u a start

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Jim mcilvaine or amal mccaskil just to give u a start

Well to be fair, Mac did graduate 25 years ago now and his sophomore year was 27 years ago. So really he shouldn't be in consideration.

[avid1010]

my point on theo is he's a pretty damn good player at a position that is difficult to fill.  comparing him historically is one thing...comparing him to others currently in the BEAST (especially those that are sophomores) is another thing and shows the difficulty of recruiting his position.  his blocks per game are considerably higher than anyone else in the league.  his reb% is solid...and he likely gives up a little on defensive rebounding in order to get the blocks.  was interesting to hear mcdermott say in the huddle against MU that they should look to kick off the drive and not even bother challenging that beast...

i'd take a bunch of theo's at the 5 position...a 4yr kid who continues to develop.  serviceable from day one, pretty dang effective in year two, and here/improving for years 3/4.   ensure we have a 4 that can shoot, and continue this 4-out offense that is fun for kids to play in and has to help with recruiting.  allows you to recruit and run an offense that is pretty favorable to guys like joey and hank. 

[Herman Cain]

Wojo has had fourteen players who were on the roster as freshmen.  I am including Sandy Cohen since he had to be "re-recruited" when he started. Here is how I rank them based on their impact to date:

1. Markus Howard - potential BE player of the year and all-american candidate
2. Sam Hauser - would have been #1 pre-season
3. Sacar Anim - will be passed up on this list eventually but a solid two year starter and good defensive player
4. Henry Ellenson - BE rookie of the year and first team all BE
5. Joey Hauser - will be higher on this list next year, maybe even #1 before leaving MU
6. Theo John - potentially the best big man in 25 years and will also move up when all is said and done
7. Matt Heldt - solid but unspectacular big man
8. Haanif Cheatham - looked like he was going to be a key player after his freshman year
9. Sandy Cohen - looked better when the talent around him wasn't very good.
10. Greg Elliott - solid defensive player who hopefully can overcome his injury set backs
11. Jamal Cain - looked like a huge upside player after his freshman year but has struggled
12. Brendan Bailey - has potential that he has flashed at times
13. Traci Carter - point guard who couldn't score and had turnover issues
14. Ike Eke - hopefully we will get to see him play someday

I think on the basis of including Sandy you would need to include Nick Noskowiak since he signed a letter of intent with Wojo but ultimately had a personal collapse and did not matriculate. I would actually rate him 14th, because he worked hard while he was a commit to help recruit Henry and Haanif . So he did have an impact on the program.

I would rate Henry number 3.  We had a marriage of convenience  with him. Henry was an exceptional college basketball player and we got back to 20 wins during his one year rental which was very important to the program.

[JakeBarnes]

my point on theo is he's a pretty damn good player at a position that is difficult to fill.  comparing him historically is one thing...comparing him to others currently in the BEAST (especially those that are sophomores) is another thing and shows the difficulty of recruiting his position.  his blocks per game are considerably higher than anyone else in the league.  his reb% is solid...and he likely gives up a little on defensive rebounding in order to get the blocks.  was interesting to hear mcdermott say in the huddle against MU that they should look to kick off the drive and not even bother challenging that beast...

i'd take a bunch of theo's at the 5 position...a 4yr kid who continues to develop.  serviceable from day one, pretty dang effective in year two, and here/improving for years 3/4.   ensure we have a 4 that can shoot, and continue this 4-out offense that is fun for kids to play in and has to help with recruiting.  allows you to recruit and run an offense that is pretty favorable to guys like joey and hank.

After years of wishing that we could even get a good big man, much less a few of them, I think we are pretty lucky. Theo and Ed have been pretty damn good so far this year.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Jim mcilvaine or amal mccaskil just to give u a start

McIlvaine left 25 years ago so that was my starting point. John could be better than McCaskill when all is said and done. Again, this is why I used "potential." It's not like Marquette has been blessed with a lot of quality big men over the past 25 years.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

After years of wishing that we could even get a good big man, much less a few of them, I think we are pretty lucky. Theo and Ed have been pretty damn good so far this year.

They have been a nice duo.  Combined stats:

33.7 mpg

12.1 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 2.8 bpg, 57.7% eFG, 60.5% ft (No matta)

I'm glad to have both. It makes the 5.8 fouls per game manageable.

[Lennys Tap]

Based on college contribution to date:

1. Markus
2. Sam
3. Henry
4. Joey (will eventually pass Henry, probably on par with Sam)

Big Gap
5. Sacar
6. Theo

Smaller gap
Everyone else

[Lennys Tap]

Based on college contribution to date:

1. Markus
2. Sam
3. Henry
4. Joey (will eventually pass Henry, probably on par with Sam)

Big Gap
5. Sacar
6. Theo

Smaller gap
Everyone else

Agree 100%.

Also agree with Mom and Goose.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Well to be fair, Mac did graduate 25 years ago now and his sophomore year was 27 years ago. So really he shouldn't be in consideration.

Spring 1994 for Mac
Shortly after 1994 tournament run defeating Kentucky to go to Sweet 16 in Florida

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Spring 1994 for Mac
Shortly after 1994 tournament run defeating Kentucky to go to Sweet 16 in Florida

I have edited the original post.  It now reads "potentially the best big man in 24 years, nine months"

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't think it is a stretch to say that John could be the best rim protector since Jimmy Mac. It's still early in his career so I need to see him do it with consistency, but he's putting up defensive numbers not seen since the Racine Rejector.

Best big man of the 25 years? I wouldn't say he's close yet. He has the defense but his offense and rebounding have a long ways to go. The best two I have seen in that time period are Robert Jackson and Henry Ellenson. Davante definitely above John at this point as well. Even Fischer and Merritt are on that list. There are others who may qualify but it depends on what you define as a big man. Was Novak a big man? Was Jae Crowder? Lazar Hayward? They all spent time playing the 5 for Marquette but I would say all of them are forwards. Even Joey Hauser could be considered a big man and I think we will be remembering him for a long time.

[4everwarriors]

Nun of 'em could cary da Bike of #22, aina?

[Nukem2]

Nun of 'em could cary da Bike of #22, aina?

Yah, Jimmy is the gold standard.

[brewcity77]

Best big man of the 25 years? I wouldn't say he's close yet. He has the defense but his offense and rebounding have a long ways to go. The best two I have seen in that time period are Robert Jackson and Henry Ellenson. Davante definitely above John at this point as well. Even Fischer and Merritt are on that list.

John is already a better defender than anyone on that list. Not just shot blocking, but his ability to hold position & move in space. I also think in many ways he is like a point guard on defense in that his presence makes his teammates better. They know they have a dominating help defender in the post.

I also think the comment on his rebounding is misleading. Our three returning starters are all posting career highs in defensive rebounding percentage & as a team we are by far a better rebounding team than any under Wojo. Theo takes offensive rebounders out of plays, which often allows easier defensive rebounding opportunities for the other guys on the court, especially Markus & Sacar.

His impact on the defensive end is as pronounced on anyone save maybe Ellenson on the offensive end.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

John is already a better defender than anyone on that list. Not just shot blocking, but his ability to hold position & move in space. I also think in many ways he is like a point guard on defense in that his presence makes his teammates better. They know they have a dominating help defender in the post.

I also think the comment on his rebounding is misleading. Our three returning starters are all posting career highs in defensive rebounding percentage & as a team we are by far a better rebounding team than any under Wojo. Theo takes offensive rebounders out of plays, which often allows easier defensive rebounding opportunities for the other guys on the court, especially Markus & Sacar.

His impact on the defensive end is as pronounced on anyone save maybe Ellenson on the offensive end.

You might be right about the defense.....but his offense is very far behind all of them and his rebounding is below everyone except maybe Davante. He also has had more trouble staying on the court than all the others.

None of this is a dis on Theo. I just see a few others who as seniors were significantly better than Theo is as a sophomore. He's got plenty of time to catch them.

[barfolomew]

I have edited the original post.  It now reads "potentially the best big man in 24 years, nine months"

HA!

[Holly Ellenson is my Mom]

My Henry is absolutely number 1.

[Bocephys]

My Henry is absolutely number 1.

He did get us access to Wally., that can't be discounted.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My Henry is absolutely number 1.

Your Henry? Are we talking to Mr. or Mrs. Ellenson?

[Holly Ellenson is my Mom]

Your Henry? Are we talking to Mr. or Mrs. Ellenson?

I havent commented in a while, and last time I was on my name was Holly Ellenson after she trashed MU....then I realized I changed my name and panicked and tried to delete the message.

[wadesworld]

I havent commented in a while, and last time I was on my name was Holly Ellenson after she trashed MU....then I realized I changed my name and panicked and tried to delete the message.

You know the saying, "You win the internet?"

Well, you did not win the internet.

[GooooMarquette]

I havent commented in a while, and last time I was on my name was Holly Ellenson after she trashed MU....then I realized I changed my name and panicked and tried to delete the message.

#faceplant