On-Campus Arena Tidbit

[We R Final Four]

I was driving up to Michigan tonight and thinking how cut throat it is in the Chicago/Milwaukee area for events. SummerFest and Lolla will always draw and aren’t at traditional arenas. Chicago has The World (whatever corporate sponsor) Ampitheatre in Tinley, Sears Centre, AllState, United Center, Wintrust, Soldier Field, and Wrigley. Then there’s Alpine and Ravinia, and then Fiserv and the Mecca. Granted, all aren’t always competing for the same things (Stones aren’t playing Sears Centre), but it’s crazy how many venues there are in a two-three hour drive for most folks.

Alpine is a great example. Staple for the Dead....then more recently weekends of DMB and Buffet for years. Now all gone. Alpine Valley dead in the water. Scrambling for anything. Hank jr? Damn. The good ole days.
3 nights of the dead followed by bob opening for JGB 3 months later. Days gone.

[wadesworld]

Very easy dots to connect. MU had no reasonable alternative this time around. That allowed the Bucks to jack up  the price. Doesn't mean that they didn't want MU in there. They just wanted to MU in there for as much money as they could squeeze. That's good business. I think exploring the possibility of an on campus arena was a wise move on MU's part.

Yeah. If they didn’t want MU, MU wouldn’t be playing in the Fiserv.

[79Warrior]

The Bucks want MU is badly that they had such friendly lease discussions. MU felt so wanted they hired a company to develop on campus arena. Connect the dots, folks.

Nope. Milwaukee does not get enough events for the FF to pass on 15 plus MU rentals.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Yeah. If they didn’t want MU, MU wouldn’t be playing in the Fiserv.

Just go ask the Milwaukee Admirals that question. Bucks never returned their calls.

[Galway Eagle]

Just go ask the Milwaukee Admirals that question. Bucks never returned their calls.

Which is rather surprising don't they average a decent crowd for an AHL team?

[reinko]

The Bucks would love for MU to leave. Free up more nights for bigger events. These guys know how to make money. They would find a way to sell out the circus at the Forum.

Just go ask the Milwaukee Admirals that question. Bucks never returned their calls.

This year MU has 13 night games at the FF, of which 10 are on Tues or Wed, not exactly prime “nights” to fill the FF.

[jsglow]

Ironically, it's actually probably more likely that Buck's ownership sees the value of their franchise rise so high over the next handful of years that a buyout of their Fiserv poison pill becomes a real possibility and the team heads off to Seattle or Vegas (or wherever).  Milwaukee will have gotten its arena paid for, extended the life of pro basketball in the smallest NBA market by a decade, and #mubb will become the signature tenant.

Here's what you guys simply aren't appreciating in this whole discussion.  The math doesn't work.  It's not even close.  And this year's super secret study proved it.  The good news is that MU doesn't have to guess at that anymore.  And as was stated earlier, perhaps they get better prepared for the next negotiating round.

Now the engineers can chime in.  I wonder if it's possible to redevelop the Al and add a balcony for, say $30m, and add 2500 seats.  Then you get a facility that has viability for Christmas break and the early cupcakes and reduce the number of Fiserv rentals down to 10 a year.  I'm sure their experience with the NIT last year has gotten those creative juices flowing.  Because that actually does give you some leverage at a viable price point.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Which is rather surprising don't they average a decent crowd for an AHL team?

The Admirals for 41 date regular season, averages between 5,400 to 6,000 per game. They start out very slow and pick up in attendance after football season. Also, added by their concert series and other promos.

Last night at UWM Panther Arena they had a full house in sales. At over 9,300.

[MUDPT]

If Cintas is the prototype, I’d stay at Fiserv. Cintas is fine, also feels very mid- majory inside. They also sell beer however.

[4everwarriors]

Just go ask the Milwaukee Admirals that question. Bucks never returned their calls.

Knot true, hey?

[mu03eng]

Ironically, it's actually probably more likely that Buck's ownership sees the value of their franchise rise so high over the next handful of years that a buyout of their Fiserv poison pill becomes a real possibility and the team heads off to Seattle or Vegas (or wherever).  Milwaukee will have gotten its arena paid for, extended the life of pro basketball in the smallest NBA market by a decade, and #mubb will become the signature tenant.

Here's what you guys simply aren't appreciating in this whole discussion.  The math doesn't work.  It's not even close.  And this year's super secret study proved it.  The good news is that MU doesn't have to guess at that anymore.  And as was stated earlier, perhaps they get better prepared for the next negotiating round.

Now the engineers can chime in.  I wonder if it's possible to redevelop the Al and add a balcony for, say $30m, and add 2500 seats.  Then you get a facility that has viability for Christmas break and the early cupcakes and reduce the number of Fiserv rentals down to 10 a year.  I'm sure their experience with the NIT last year has gotten those creative juices flowing.  Because that actually does give you some leverage at a viable price point.

This, Bucks are just as likely to not be here next round of negotiations. Owners want to extract value, I'm guessing they sell in the next 5 years. If MU goes and builds a stadium everyone gets screwed there

[jsglow]

This, Bucks are just as likely to not be here next round of negotiations. Owners want to extract value, I'm guessing they sell in the next 5 years. If MU goes and builds a stadium everyone gets screwed there

Can you imagine the nightmare that would be?  So eng, being an eng and all, can they raise the roof on the Al and do what I'm saying?  You took a class sometime years ago.

[jsglow]

I'll add one more thing to the discussion.  You guys all remember the grandiose plans MU had with the Athletic Research and Performance Center and that the Bucks were involved?  And all that went up in smoke.  Marquette clearly now understands what this ownership group is all about and the contrast they represent relative to other major business leaders in town who actually do have Milwaukee's interest at heart as part of their make-up.  The New Yorkers will be long gone, never to be heard from again, and we'll still be here.

Not to derail the thread but every Wisconsinite sure ought to appreciate Mark Attanasio and allocate an appropriate share of their entertainment dollars accordingly.

[SERocks]

They just wanted to MU in there for as much money as they could squeeze. That's good business.

The older I get the more I disagree with this statement.  Sometimes the best deal leaves money on the table.   All depends on your future desires... Another clue as to Bucks ownership plans as alluded to by others on the thread.

[The Lens]

NM

[We R Final Four]

When our super secret study for a new on campus arena is leaked that it is not feasible..........seems to me to be another advantage for the New Yorkers, no?
With respect to negotiations, would have been best to keep this under wraps or in year 5 of current lease, announce that MU is looking at building on campus to keep the NYs guessing. Appears to me that we just lost hand or an element of hand.
So, improve the Al or improve the arena are now the alternatives.
I understand that the NYs may bolt, but we’ll see.

[moomoo]

This, Bucks are just as likely to not be here next round of negotiations. Owners want to extract value, I'm guessing they sell in the next 5 years. If MU goes and builds a stadium everyone gets screwed there

“The agreement also includes a non-relocation clause. Asked about a roughly $550 million penalty that the Bucks would pay if the team did move during the lease, Edens said, "I think it's fair to say we're not going anywhere ... They built it with a financial penalty that is so punitive it would be not something you would consider, so it's a firm commitment."

[Warrior of Law]

There’s a lot to unpack in this story.  I do think there was a reason to spill the story now, though.  MU could expand the Al to the south, move some offices across the street, and add another 2000 seats for a decent alternative. Maybe they’ve started to negotiate an extension which is why the story was leaked.

[MUfan12]

Ironically, it's actually probably more likely that Buck's ownership sees the value of their franchise rise so high over the next handful of years that a buyout of their Fiserv poison pill becomes a real possibility and the team heads off to Seattle or Vegas (or wherever).  Milwaukee will have gotten its arena paid for, extended the life of pro basketball in the smallest NBA market by a decade, and #mubb will become the signature tenant.

Here's what you guys simply aren't appreciating in this whole discussion.  The math doesn't work.  It's not even close.  And this year's super secret study proved it.  The good news is that MU doesn't have to guess at that anymore.  And as was stated earlier, perhaps they get better prepared for the next negotiating round.

On point 1- I've thought that same thing in the past, but I was told by someone close to the team that there is "no way" the NBA would allow that to happen. Take it FWIW.

Point 2- The fact that it took a study to figure that out is crazy to me. The math was obvious from the start.

[warriorchick]

Point 2- The fact that it took a study to figure that out is crazy to me. The math was obvious from the start.

As a person who does these types of analyses for a living, I can tell you that even when everyone already knows what the answer is going to be, often you still have to go through the formal process simply to have a document to show people who want to argue with you.

[jsglow]

JS, where are you are getting this poison pill Bucks language? There was a clause in the sale that if arena financing wasn’t in place the nba would buy the team back.  What is the other poison pill?

I'm not recalling all the details but there are key provisions requiring the payoff of the public debt if the Bucks skip town within a certain number of years.  They can go anytime.  But they have to pay for the building on their way out.  In fact, if my memory serves, the 'Milwaukee payoff' is actually substantially more than that as a disincentive.

The 'NBA buying the team back section' protected the New Yorker's profit if they couldn't get an arena done.  They would have been paid 1.2x (don't quote the figure; pure guess) on their initial investment if the league bought the franchise back but stood to make very much more if they could make the arena happen. 

It was actually a well structured deal from all sides, especially when you recall that the public investment was around 50%, historically low in the last 30 years.

[jsglow]

As a person who does these types of analyses for a living, I can tell you that even when everyone already knows what the answer is going to be, often you still have to go through the formal process simply to have a document to show people who want to argue with you.

Like dos guys over der on Scoop!   

[The Lens]

I'm not recalling all the details but there are key provisions requiring the payoff of the public debt if the Bucks skip town within a certain number of years.  They can go anytime.  But they have to pay for the building on their way out.  In fact, if my memory serves, the 'Milwaukee payoff' is actually substantially more than that as a disincentive.

The 'NBA buying the team back section' protected the New Yorker's profit if they couldn't get an arena done.  They would have been paid 1.2x (don't quote the figure; pure guess) on their initial investment if the league bought the franchise back but stood to make very much more if they could make the arena happen. 

It was actually a well structured deal from all sides, especially when you recall that the public investment was around 50%, historically low in the last 30 years.

I had forgot about the $550MM...

Over coming a $550 Million Dollar penalty seems unlikely.  And an incredibly bad look for the nba assuming the market continues to support the team. 

It would be a terrible precedent for municipalities to commit to building arenas only to have them uprooted.  You’d never get another one built. 

This isn’t how Adam Silver works.   

[dgies9156]

Let me see if I understand this right:

1) We play in a brand-spanking-new arena six blocks from campus.

2) We don't like our lease terms.

3) So we look at and some of us get excited by Brother BennyB's Thunderdome on campus.

Unless Brother Benny and his buddies kick in well north of $120 million, I don't see the economics behind building an on-campus arena. I just don't. I admire the administration for evaluating it -- that just makes good sense. But if I had a nickel for every business case evaluated by an entity and then nothing is done, I could afford a small bungalow in San Francisco.

Let's just enjoy the Computing Castle!

[oldwarrior81]

The Phoenix Suns are the latest rumors about threatening to move without public monies to renovate.  $230 million in upgrades, and the Suns would pay for a $80 million practice facility. The owner has denied.
As typical the usual suspects for a potential destination are Las Vegas and Seattle.

I always thought the Los Angels Lakers and Utah Jazz names didn't make sense.  But the Seattle Suns?