Are Millennials Starting to Buy Houses in the Burbs?

[Eldon]

For many of us, the idea of turning into our parents is something to be studiously avoided at all cost (no offense, Mom and Dad!). After all, who in their 20s and early 30s wants to be tethered to mortgage payments, bulk shopping trips to Costco and endless backyard barbecues when there are Instagram-worthy places to visit and pricey weekend brunches to be had? At least that’s how the clichés go.

But a recent survey by Ernst & Young indicates millennials may have a lot more in common with their parents than they care to admit, despite the fact your parents may not have a taste for $19 avocado toast...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/house-spouse-suburban-living-millennials-220523742.html

_____________________________


I'm curious to hear some thoughts on this: are millennials--especially the older ones--really moving away from gentrified urban areas (e.g., Bay View in MKE, Logan Square in Chi) to find places in the burbs?

I was talking to a real estate developer in the western Chi burbs a few weeks ago and he is betting on it bigtime.  In a nutshell, he said to look for suburban transportation-orientated growth to explode, e.g., the real estate near Metra stations in places like Downers Grove, Lisle, etc.  The idea is to mimic the walkability of the urban core, without the congestion, crime, bad schools, etc.  And if walkable burbs don't satiate the need for 'authentic' avocado toast, you're only a quick train ride away.

[GGGG]

This doesn't surprise me in the least. 

[StillAWarrior]

A generation that rails against their parents only to follow in their footsteps?

Impossible!

[warriorchick]

Well, all those millenials are starting to have school-age children.

My millennial sister and her husband recently moved out of their condo in an a trendy part of Denver to a McMansion in the best school district in Tennessee. They both negotiated work from home arrangements with their employers and are now way closer to family.

The amount of money they will be saving on private school tuition for their 3 kids more than makes up for the increase in their mortgage payment.

[Galway Eagle]

Over my dead body could I move to a modern suburb (cookie cutter housing, driveways, everything I hate).

Can't imagine many of my friends in them either though the married ones I know are buying in those type of suburbs like Waukesha, New Berlin, Palatine, Lemont.

[UWW2MU]

Without a doubt this is starting to happen and agreed it is because the group as a whole is finally having children.  Count me in this group.

The only difference though, is that Millennials are going to gravitate to the 'burbs that have a lot more urban amenities than their parents were looking for.  This means high demand for inner ring suburbs.  Milwaukee metro is a perfect case study in this.  Places like Wauwatosa, Shorewood, Whitefish Bay are seeing tremendous value growth and an influx of Millennials.  Meanwhile, more traditional 'burbs like Brookfield and Mequon, that have usually shunned urban style developments, have many projects underway that bring a denser and more walkable nature to their city centers. 

[Galway Eagle]

Without a doubt this is starting to happen and agreed it is because the group as a whole is finally having children.  Count me in this group.

The only difference though, is that Millennials are going to gravitate to the 'burbs that have a lot more urban amenities than their parents were looking for.  This means high demand for inner ring suburbs.  Milwaukee metro is a perfect case study in this.  Places like Wauwatosa, Shorewood, Whitefish Bay are seeing tremendous value growth and an influx of Millennials.  Meanwhile, more traditional 'burbs like Brookfield and Mequon, that have usually shunned urban style developments, have many projects underway that bring a denser and more walkable nature to their city centers.

I agree with this

[Archies Bat]

Well, all those millenials are starting to have school-age children.

My millennial sister and her husband recently moved out of their condo in an a trendy part of Denver to a McMansion in the best school district in Tennessee. They both negotiated work from home arrangements with their employers and are now way closer to family.

The amount of money they will be saving on private school tuition for their 3 kids more than makes up for the increase in their mortgage payment.

We are nearing retirement and have considered getting a condo in Chicago or NY so we can vacation near our millennial kids and enjoy some city time.  While we are now leaning against it, it would have a little irony if we bought one from a millennial moving out to the burbs.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Look for smaller cities and towns around the nation to start mimicking the Naperville model.

[GGGG]

Without a doubt this is starting to happen and agreed it is because the group as a whole is finally having children.  Count me in this group.

The only difference though, is that Millennials are going to gravitate to the 'burbs that have a lot more urban amenities than their parents were looking for.  This means high demand for inner ring suburbs.  Milwaukee metro is a perfect case study in this.  Places like Wauwatosa, Shorewood, Whitefish Bay are seeing tremendous value growth and an influx of Millennials.  Meanwhile, more traditional 'burbs like Brookfield and Mequon, that have usually shunned urban style developments, have many projects underway that bring a denser and more walkable nature to their city centers. 

Fast forward 20 years...

[Chili]

Wife (34) & I (39) are coming up on a year in our house we built in Avondale just a few blocks out of Logan Square. We never considered the burbs since we both work in the city. (West Loop & West Town). Most of our friends have also bought houses (Logan, Avondale, Bucktown, North Center) or large condos (Roscoe, West Loop) with only a few going to the burbs. Long commutes are the biggest reason no one wants to go out to the burbs along with access to the city being the positives.

As for development along public transit in burbs - it's already happening in other cities. Just look at Denver & Portland as examples. Both cities are exploding in population and they're building along the public transit routes. Also the collar burbs will continue to do well. I do think the McMansion might devalue quite a bit. 1st off, they're tacky AF with zero design sense. 2nd, it just seems like a big waste.

[dgies9156]

Well, all those millenials are starting to have school-age children.

My millennial sister and her husband recently moved out of their condo in an a trendy part of Denver to a McMansion in the best school district in Tennessee. They both negotiated work from home arrangements with their employers and are now way closer to family.

The amount of money they will be saving on private school tuition for their 3 kids more than makes up for the increase in their mortgage payment.

Sister Chick is right on. The reality is that once you have children, you face the prospect of the Chicago Public School system, where your child either is a genius or you are politically connected or your education is, well, let's just say suspect.

By contrast, my home in a Chicago suburb is in a neighborhood where we have one of the best public school systems in the United States. We pay through the nose for it, yes, but the proof is in the performance. Our system's students are graduated and most do well in college. Children with special circumstances or enhanced needs obtain the support they require to succeed. Students are a person, not a burden to an overpaid, underperforming school system.

Sure, the commute is long, at least on the surface. Mine has been about 1:10 each way. There are neighborhoods in the city where on a bus or a train, it's not much less than that. And, when I board my train, I get a seat. I get two breakdowns a year and the air conditioning works. Late arrivals are measured in single digits and our train stations have heat in the winter. Any CTA rider that claims this for the CTA is either delusional or spreading fake news!

I could go on. Our restaurants are better than they ever have been. Our biggest "crime" is speeding or running red lights. I've lived in our community for almost 25 years and I think we have had all of two murders. Neither was in the village limits. We have lots of green space, a beautiful forest preserve (especially in fall) right outside my back yard, biking, horseback riding, hiking and canoeing all within a mile. Chicago is an hour one way and our beloved Warriors are an hour the other way.

The city has its advantages and as our children leave, we have given some thought to moving to the city. Yes, we could become "our children!" We worry not about the educational system at this point and we'll be a few minutes from everything. If the crime rate is down and the city's government not imploding, maybe this might make some sense.

[DegenerateDish]

Look for smaller cities and towns around the nation to start mimicking the Naperville model.

This is dead on, this whole concept or ideology is just based on Naperville. Naperville is the definition of this and has been since the 80’s.

[Benny B]

As of about 3 years ago, more Milennials wanted to live in the suburbs than Gen Xers at the same point in their life.  IIRC, the simple math was that as many as 8 million Millennials living in cities would rather be living in the suburbs.

[muwarrior69]

I take it that the millennials don't have the student debt that today's grads have. Wonder if that will impact home ownership down the road.

[dgies9156]

I take it that the millennials don't have the student debt that today's grads have. Wonder if that will impact home ownership down the road.

The most significant impact on home ownership has yet to be fully felt. The tax law passed late last year changed the whole homeownership  profile by creating a standard deduction, limiting deductions for property taxes and limiting the amount of interest that is deductible.

In the past, you could generally count on the federal government subsidizing between 28 percent and 39 percent of your home purchase based on favorable tax treatment. They're still there, but the new standard deduction and treatment for housing expenses means there is very little tax benefit to homeownership for many Americans.

When this trend is combined with stagnent home value increases (California and New York being the obvious exceptions), housing isn't the value it used to be. Sure, people will buy homes. But the purchase is more a lifestyle decision than it is an investment. Maybe that's why today's 20 somethings and 30 somethings are waiting!

[tower912]

Well, all those millenials are starting to have school-age children.

My millennial sister and her husband recently moved out of their condo in an a trendy part of Denver to a McMansion in the best school district in Tennessee. They both negotiated work from home arrangements with their employers and are now way closer to family.

The amount of money they will be saving on private school tuition for their 3 kids more than makes up for the increase in their mortgage payment.

You have a millennial sister?

[reinko]

The most significant impact on home ownership has yet to be fully felt. The tax law passed late last year changed the whole homeownership  profile by creating a standard deduction, limiting deductions for property taxes and limiting the amount of interest that is deductible.

In the past, you could generally count on the federal government subsidizing between 28 percent and 39 percent of your home purchase based on favorable tax treatment. They're still there, but the new standard deduction and treatment for housing expenses means there is very little tax benefit to homeownership for many Americans.

When this trend is combined with stagnent home value increases (California and New York being the obvious exceptions), housing isn't the value it used to be. Sure, people will buy homes. But the purchase is more a lifestyle decision than it is an investment. Maybe that's why today's 20 somethings and 30 somethings are waiting!

It's my understanding, this tilted to the wealthier, in high-tax states.  The new cap to deduct on prop taxes is $10K (if you are married, $5K as a single), which on a $750,000 home, in one of the highest taxed areas in the country (Nassau County in NY), is about $10,500 a year.  Same goes for a $450,000 condo in Logan sq (if you are single person), prop taxes for the year around $6500, so you would lose out on $1,500 deduction, not exactly life-altering.  So homes most millennials would buy in 200s, 300s, or 400s K, even if they are single, I would doubt would get impacted by this change.

Same goes for for mortgage interest, $750,000 income cap for married, or $375,000 for single folks...

Now for some I totally agree this new tax sucks in this case, but I doubt many millennials would fall prey to these changes that would impact their decision to buy a home.

[MU B2002]

Well, all those millenials are starting to have school-age children.

My millennial sister and her husband recently moved out of their condo in an a trendy part of Denver to a McMansion in the best school district in Tennessee. They both negotiated work from home arrangements with their employers and are now way closer to family.

The amount of money they will be saving on private school tuition for their 3 kids more than makes up for the increase in their mortgage payment.

Ah, Williamson County.  Great schools.

[GGGG]

I take it that the millennials don't have the student debt that today's grads have.

They do.

[dgies9156]

My millennial sister and her husband recently moved out of their condo in an a trendy part of Denver to a McMansion in the best school district in Tennessee.

Saying you have the best school system in Tennessee is like looking for chateaubriand at a Waffle House.

I'm sure Williamson County is good -- and Brentwood is great -- but other than perhaps Germantown outside Memphis, great school districts at large are few and far between in the State of Tennessee.

[MUfan12]

Having a kid was definitely the factor that changed it for my wife and I. The thought of MPS or paying for private education was enough for us to start the search. If we were childless, I think we'd stay in the city.

The burbs we're looking at are close to the city, though. Even though it's cheaper, the thought of being 40 mins from everything was not appealing.

[warriorchick]

You have a millennial sister?

Yep.  She was born a month before I graduated from high school.  You should have seen the look on my grade-school teacher Sister David's face when I carried her into my brother's 8th-grade graduation ceremony.

[warriorchick]

Saying you have the best school system in Tennessee is like looking for chateaubriand at a Waffle House.

I'm sure Williamson County is good -- and Brentwood is great -- but other than perhaps Germantown outside Memphis, great school districts at large are few and far between in the State of Tennessee.

They are in Brentwood, which has the best non-magnet HS in Tennessee according to USNWR.  It's also ranked higher than any non-magnet public school in the Chicago area except for Stevenson.

You've been away from your home town too long.  Those Southern stereotypes are starting to creep in.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

The most significant impact on home ownership has yet to be fully felt. The tax law passed late last year changed the whole homeownership  profile by creating a standard deduction, limiting deductions for property taxes and limiting the amount of interest that is deductible.

In the past, you could generally count on the federal government subsidizing between 28 percent and 39 percent of your home purchase based on favorable tax treatment. They're still there, but the new standard deduction and treatment for housing expenses means there is very little tax benefit to homeownership for many Americans.

When this trend is combined with stagnent home value increases (California and New York being the obvious exceptions), housing isn't the value it used to be. Sure, people will buy homes. But the purchase is more a lifestyle decision than it is an investment. Maybe that's why today's 20 somethings and 30 somethings are waiting!

Which is a law that I think is likely to be repealed sooner than later or at the very least the SALT limitation will be eliminated as a result of a budget negotiation.

[4everwarriors]

They are in Brentwood, which has the best non-magnet HS in Tennessee according to USNWR.  It's also ranked higher than any non-magnet public school in the Chicago area except for Stevenson.

You've been away from your home town too long.  Those Southern stereotypes are starting to creep in.

Yeah butt da Pontiff sezz USNWR rankin's don't meen chit, hey?

[dgies9156]

They are in Brentwood, which has the best non-magnet HS in Tennessee according to USNWR.  It's also ranked higher than any non-magnet public school in the Chicago area except for Stevenson.

You've been away from your home town too long.  Those Southern stereotypes are starting to creep in.

I agree Williamson County and Brentwood probably is as good as it comes.

One can't say the same for the entire State of Tennessee. That's not a stereotype.

Also, USN&WR ratings  -- while Brentwood is a great public high school, the question is whether there is a statistically significant difference between it and about 100 other high schools in the United States. I'd be surprised. And, if USN&WR uses the same tactics for high schools as they do colleges, then all it means the winning high schools have a great public relations program!

That said, I have been away from Nashville too long  !! I do trust your sister will find Brentwood a great place for herself, her husband and her family! My good friends all have!

[dgies9156]

It's my understanding, this tilted to the wealthier, in high-tax states.  The new cap to deduct on prop taxes is $10K (if you are married, $5K as a single), which on a $750,000 home, in one of the highest taxed areas in the country (Nassau County in NY), is about $10,500 a year.  Same goes for a $450,000 condo in Logan sq (if you are single person), prop taxes for the year around $6500, so you would lose out on $1,500 deduction, not exactly life-altering.  So homes most millennials would buy in 200s, 300s, or 400s K, even if they are single, I would doubt would get impacted by this change.

Same goes for for mortgage interest, $750,000 income cap for married, or $375,000 for single folks...

Now for some I totally agree this new tax sucks in this case, but I doubt many millennials would fall prey to these changes that would impact their decision to buy a home.

You are missing one point. With the standard deduction in the new tax code, for many taxpayersnwith a starter home, it's likely to be more advantageous to take the standard deduction. This negates the benefit of mortgage interest and taxes, given SALT.

I can't comment on the likelihood that the SALT limit will ever be repealed. Depends on the make-up of future Congresses. If the GOP continues to retain control of the Senate, a repeal is extremely unlikely.

[warriorchick]

One can't say the same for the entire State of Tennessee. That's not a stereotype.

You can't judge schools based on state alone (which admit it - you did    ), and you know this, because you live in Illinois and I am pretty sure you would never send your kid to a high school in East St. Louis or Cairo.

[theBabyDavid]

the best school district in Tennessee

[dgies9156]

You can't judge schools based on state alone (which admit it - you did    ), and you know this, because you live in Illinois and I am pretty sure you would never send your kid to a high school in East St. Louis or Cairo.

Probably not.

Hope your sister is doing well in Brentwood. 

[theBabyDavid]

Brentwood. 

Isn't that where The Juice hung his Brunos?

[drewm88]

Sister Chick is right on. The reality is that once you have children, you face the prospect of the Chicago Public School system, where your child either is a genius or you are politically connected or your education is, well, let's just say suspect.

Pretty sure it's been discussed on here before, but the vast majority of Scoopers in Chicago live in neighborhoods where the schools are great. Yes, there are countless issues with CPS, but good neighborhood still = good schools.

[Galway Eagle]

Pretty sure it's been discussed on here before, but the vast majority of Scoopers in Chicago live in neighborhoods where the schools are great. Yes, there are countless issues with CPS, but good neighborhood still = good schools.

I feel like the difficulty to get into the Lane, Jones, Payton, Young, Northside, LP etc is blown out of proportion by certain posters. It's not that much different than testing into Ignatius, Loyola or Fenwick unless you're trying to place into the IB program or something.

[SaveOD238]

I'll throw in my experience, as a suburb-living millenial.

After we got married (2013) my wife and I lived one year in a cheap apartment in Kenosha.  When we decided to buy a house in 2014, we were thinking that kids were on the way, though she didn't show up until this August.  I fell in love with the idea of having my own place and my own yard.  We now live in Mount Pleasant, some parts of which are urban, some rural, and some suburban.  I live in basically the last subdivision of suburb before it goes rural.

I don't love it.  We went too suburban too quick, and now I want to bounce back the other way.  With home prices in Mt. P sky-rocketing (thanks, Foxconn) and the new baby having arrived, I'd like to sell the house and move somewhere with a) better schools and b) more amenities within walking distance.  The only real amenity within walking distance now is a YMCA, and even that is about 1.5 miles.  I think I'd prefer more of an inner-ring suburb like a Brookfield, even if it meant down-sizing the home a little bit.  Every once in a while, I get the urge to move back to a city.

[warriorchick]

I'll throw in my experience, as a suburb-living millenial.

After we got married (2013) my wife and I lived one year in a cheap apartment in Kenosha.  When we decided to buy a house in 2014, we were thinking that kids were on the way, though she didn't show up until this August.  I fell in love with the idea of having my own place and my own yard.  We now live in Mount Pleasant, some parts of which are urban, some rural, and some suburban.  I live in basically the last subdivision of suburb before it goes rural.

I don't love it.  We went too suburban too quick, and now I want to bounce back the other way.  With home prices in Mt. P sky-rocketing (thanks, Foxconn) and the new baby having arrived, I'd like to sell the house and move somewhere with a) better schools and b) more amenities within walking distance.  The only real amenity within walking distance now is a YMCA, and even that is about 1.5 miles.  I think I'd prefer more of an inner-ring suburb like a Brookfield, even if it meant down-sizing the home a little bit.  Every once in a while, I get the urge to move back to a city.

In Chicago, they consider the entire Kenosha area a suburb (especially if you're a millenial).   

[Eldon]

Look for smaller cities and towns around the nation to start mimicking the Naperville model.

Naperville is the city that we were talking about actually.  Apparently there is a push to build a huge condo complex right next to the Naperville train station--a sort of "gentrification" of the suburb, as it were.

Naperville is a bit unique though, no?  Among a sea of suburbs with 5-15,000 people, Naperville stands out in that it has over 150,000 people.  That's a lot of people.  You need lots of people to support a walkable downtown.

[Eldon]

A generation that rails against their parents only to follow in their footsteps?

Impossible!

What happens to all of the urban gentrified neighborhoods, e.g., the Bay Views, Logan Squares?  Do the Millennials move out, only to be replenished by the next batch of 24-30 year olds?

[Pakuni]

Without a doubt this is starting to happen and agreed it is because the group as a whole is finally having children.  Count me in this group.

The only difference though, is that Millennials are going to gravitate to the 'burbs that have a lot more urban amenities than their parents were looking for.  This means high demand for inner ring suburbs.  Milwaukee metro is a perfect case study in this.  Places like Wauwatosa, Shorewood, Whitefish Bay are seeing tremendous value growth and an influx of Millennials.  Meanwhile, more traditional 'burbs like Brookfield and Mequon, that have usually shunned urban style developments, have many projects underway that bring a denser and more walkable nature to their city centers.

I agree, though I don't think it's a entirely a result of millennial influences/preferences. Empty nesters in particular are as much as millennials are driving the market for denser housing in more walkable, city center environments (especially those with easy access to public transportation, i.e. train stations) and municipal/county governments are more open than ever to those kinds of developments.
And I think people across all demos have seen the downside of far aflung "McMansion" subdivisions.

[UWW2MU]

...I'd prefer more of an inner-ring suburb like a Brookfield...

Wait, what?     You want to live in an inner ring suburb or you want to live in Brookfield, which is it?   

[🏀]

In Chicago, they consider the entire Kenosha area a suburb (especially if you're a millenial).   

It's part of the Chicago area metropolitan planning, so why isn't it a suburb?

[warriorchick]

It's part of the Chicago area metropolitan planning, so why isn't it a suburb?

It is my understanding that the entire area from Crown Point, Indiana to Port Washington, Wisconsin can be considered one metropolitan area.

[BrewCity83]

The Chicago Megalopolis.

[🏀]

It is my understanding that the entire area from Crown Point, Indiana to Port Washington, Wisconsin can be considered one metropolitan area.

Could be, but Kenosha is included in decisions being made today within CMAP.

[mikekinsellaMVP]

It is my understanding that the entire area from Crown Point, Indiana to Port Washington, Wisconsin can be considered one a metropolitan area.

Chicago and Milwaukee are distinct MSAs.

Could be, but Kenosha is included in decisions being made today within CMAP.

Correct.  But the Wisconsin counties within the Chicago MSA (Racine, Kenosha) are under the planning authority of SEWRPC, not CMAP, so they get their policy directives from Milwaukee's MPO.

[DegenerateDish]

I live in Elgin, a town that should fit all the criteria laid out here.

Downtown area, nice condos (albeit across from the casino), multiple Metra stations downtown, restaurants/bars, Fox River, but downtown Elgin is still for the most part a ghost town. I don’t want to get this thread locked, I know why some of that is, but focusing on the other end of the spectrum, Elgin has come nowhere near what Naperville is, and can’t compete for the upscale St. Charles/Geneva crowds. I still think downtown Elgin can eventually be a gold mine, the festivals they have downtown always draw well, but downtown can’t seem to draw people on a typical September Saturday night as an example.

[🏀]

Chicago and Milwaukee are distinct MSAs.

Correct.  But the Wisconsin counties within the Chicago MSA (Racine, Kenosha) are under the planning authority of SEWRPC, not CMAP, so they get their policy directives from Milwaukee's MPO.

You are correct, someone else likes Urban Planning I see.

[Archies Bat]

You are correct, someone else likes Urban Planning I see.

His real name is Art Vandelay.

[mikekinsellaMVP]

You are correct, someone else likes Urban Planning I see.

Or the hazard of being the engineer on a team of planners.   

(Actually, it's pretty cool stuff.)

[martyconlonontherun]

I'm far from the brunch with avocado toast millennial, but I also favor city living. Unfortunately, wife got caught up in house fever and that's that. Seems like a lot of my friends are in a rush to not only get a house but one in a nice school district when their unconceived child is six years away from stepping into a classroom. I had a pretty good deal on rent in the city, so I feel any equity gained in the house is offset by taxes, maintenance, etc. Add in the time for shoveling, mowing the lawn, etc with the house and it was just way more efficient living in the city. Now I'm tied down with a lot of sunk costs in the house if a job opportunity opens up.

[checkmarq]

His real name is Art Vandelay.

+1

[SaveOD238]

In Chicago, they consider the entire Kenosha area a suburb (especially if you're a millenial).   

Kenosha and Racine are weird.  They're on one hand suburbs of larger metros (Chicago, Milwaukee, or both) but they are both cities of their own that have their own suburbs (Pleasant Prairie/Salem and Mount Pleasant/Caledonia).  They both have old downtowns by the lake, surrounded by urban neighborhoods that become more affluent the further out you go.  Both have major businesses that were/are founded and headquartered there.

I think it's because they are both sandwiched between two larger cities, but their origins are as independent communities.  It's not like Greendale or Arlington Heights, which were basically just established as places for people who worked in Milwaukee or Chicago to live.  I lived in Gurnee as a kid, and Gurnee was nothing without Chicago (in fact it was founded as a train stop between Chicago and Milwaukee).

[dgies9156]

What happens to all of the urban gentrified neighborhoods, e.g., the Bay Views, Logan Squares?  Do the Millennials move out, only to be replenished by the next batch of 24-30 year olds?

No, they are replenished by downsizing boomers looking for a smaller, more exciting place to call home.

[Galway Eagle]

No, they are replenished by downsizing boomers looking for a smaller, more exciting place to call home.

And less adventurous people from the next generation . For example Lakeview wasn't always a posh neighborhood it is now.

[Bad_Reporter]

To answer the OP’s question.  Yes, I bought my first house and currently live in fox point (suburb of Mke). I am starting to look at condos downtown in Mke however. 

My biggest concern is schools in the downtown area or lack of.

[MU82]

With the standard deduction in the new tax code, for many taxpayers with a starter home, it's likely to be more advantageous to take the standard deduction. This negates the benefit of mortgage interest and taxes, given SALT.

This. And it doesn't have to be a starter home. In Charlotte and many similar cities, big homes in nice neighborhoods cost far less than starter homes do in the pricier cities. For the vast majority of homeowners in the Charlottes, St. Louises, Nashvilles, Omahas, Denvers, Austins, Columbuses, etc, etc, etc, the standard deduction will be more advantageous than any kind of tax-related homeowner benefits. Realtors are quite nervous about it.

Now, personal anecdotes time ...

My 32-year-old daughter and son-in-law live just outside of Seattle. They loved living in the city. Loved it! Took advantage of all the restaurants, bars, music venues, etc. But when it came time to buy their first house last year, they ended up buying in the burbs. I was pretty surprised. No kids yet, but they hope to start having them soon, but I think they just wanted a decent sized piece of land and a nice house for less $$ than they could get in the city. Plus, he works in a neighboring burb, so it's closer for him. Always different reasons folks choose what they do.

Meanwhile, my 31-year-old son and his new wife rent in Lincoln Square. He works in Westchester and she works in Northbrook. Yep, they both do the dreaded "reverse commute." They want to buy a condo or townhouse in the city because they love, love, love it. They also want to start a family fairly soon. It will be interesting (to me at least) to see what they end up doing.

Finally, one note about CPS ...

Even if it's true that one has to be brilliant and/or lucky to get into the good high schools, there are a lot of very good neighborhood elementary schools. I know because we chose our first house in Chicago based solely on it being in the St. Ben's neighborhood, where Bell elementary sits. It is still considered an outstanding school, and there are other highly rated ones, too. One just has to know where to look ... and be able to afford to buy in those neighborhoods. Yeah, maybe a person who lives there will eventually have to move to the burbs for high school, but that's a long way away for somebody with, say, a 3-year-old.

[Vogue 66]

My reality is that the inner-city folks or people from the inner burbs are moving to the outer burbs.  The old folks are moving out to Costa Rica, Florida, still, Arizona, Kentucky, Tennessee, and the Carolinas.
The reason for the vacuum pulling people out of the city, besides the school issue, is the availability of many affordable condos in the outer ring of suburbs.
The past election is indicative of the migration.
Now the politicians (this is not a political statement) are looking to redistrict again.  Such is the length the politicians will go to to win on demographics rather than principles. 

[MU82]

My reality is that the inner-city folks or people from the inner burbs are moving to the outer burbs.  The old folks are moving out to Costa Rica, Florida, still, Arizona, Kentucky, Tennessee, and the Carolinas.
The reason for the vacuum pulling people out of the city, besides the school issue, is the availability of many affordable condos in the outer ring of suburbs.

I don't have figures to agree or disagree with this. I will say that I have read many, many accounts of older folks moving into city centers because they love being surrounded by restaurants, theater, pro sports and other things they love to do.

Indeed, I have been trying to talk my wife into ditching our suburban house and buying within walking distance to her work and to the things we enjoy doing. My argument: Life is short; let's take advantage of all the city has to offer while we're young enough to do so. She hates the idea of moving again, and is worried about not having enough storage for our stuff (which I want to get rid of), so we'll probably stay put for the 5-8 years we have left in Charlotte.

[Vogue 66]

I don't have figures to agree or disagree with this. I will say that I have read many, many accounts of older folks moving into city centers because they love being surrounded by restaurants, theater, pro sports and other things they love to do.

Indeed, I have been trying to talk my wife into ditching our suburban house and buying within walking distance to her work and to the things we enjoy doing. My argument: Life is short; let's take advantage of all the city has to offer while we're young enough to do so. She hates the idea of moving again, and is worried about not having enough storage for our stuff (which I want to get rid of), so we'll probably stay put for the 5-8 years we have left in Charlotte.

Do you want to switch wives?  My wife is in Italy, I'm in N.J., she loves the opera, good food, nice weather, and her Italian friends and wants to dump our suburban life style.

I like my equipment, projects, English speaking friends, MU BB, real golf courses, and real cars.

Our workaround is summers in New Jersey, winters in Italy and we spend most of the winter apart.  I agree, life is short.

We started the Italy thing with an air-b-&-b, then a small apartment on a short term lease, now a larger apartment, with a garage,  on an 7 year lease, here we go again, ha. More stuff, very spiritual. 

I was on a Jesuit retreat and learned about spiritual indifference and that is what I apply to Millennials, life is too short to bother with them.

For example, my Vogue65 does not accept my password so they send me an email to the email address they have on file and connected to Vogue65.  Problem is the email address is probably 8 years old and I can't get into it.  So I have to start a new name Vogue 66 using my original password.  All brought to you be Millennials. 

I try to avoid them whenever I can.  Those that are in the suburbs are so busy with childrearing they have no time for me anyway.

NYC, the meeting ground

Morris County NJ, the breeding ground

Florida, the burial ground

[UWW2MU]

Do you want to switch wives?  My wife is in Italy, I'm in N.J., she loves the opera, good food, nice weather, and her Italian friends and wants to dump our suburban life style.

I like my equipment, projects, English speaking friends, MU BB, real golf courses, and real cars.

Our workaround is summers in New Jersey, winters in Italy and we spend most of the winter apart.  I agree, life is short.

We started the Italy thing with an air-b-&-b, then a small apartment on a short term lease, now a larger apartment, with a garage,  on an 7 year lease, here we go again, ha. More stuff, very spiritual. 

I was on a Jesuit retreat and learned about spiritual indifference and that is what I apply to Millennials, life is too short to bother with them.

For example, my Vogue65 does not accept my password so they send me an email to the email address they have on file and connected to Vogue65.  Problem is the email address is probably 8 years old and I can't get into it.  So I have to start a new name Vogue 66 using my original password.  All brought to you be Millennials. 

I try to avoid them whenever I can.  Those that are in the suburbs are so busy with childrearing they have no time for me anyway.

NYC, the meeting ground

Morris County NJ, the breeding ground

Florida, the burial ground

Maybe I've been duped, but is this post satirical in nature? 

[buckchuckler]

Do you want to switch wives?  My wife is in Italy, I'm in N.J., she loves the opera, good food, nice weather, and her Italian friends and wants to dump our suburban life style.

I like my equipment, projects, English speaking friends, MU BB, real golf courses, and real cars.

Uhhhh.  What?  Italy is the home to some of the absolute finest cars on the planet.  And while most can't afford the Ferrari's, Alfa and Maserati do make some attainable cars that are just spectacular.

Edit:  Yeah, see above post.  What he said.

[MU82]

Do you want to switch wives?  My wife is in Italy, I'm in N.J., she loves the opera, good food, nice weather, and her Italian friends and wants to dump our suburban life style.

I like my equipment, projects, English speaking friends, MU BB, real golf courses, and real cars.

Our workaround is summers in New Jersey, winters in Italy and we spend most of the winter apart.  I agree, life is short.

We started the Italy thing with an air-b-&-b, then a small apartment on a short term lease, now a larger apartment, with a garage,  on an 7 year lease, here we go again, ha. More stuff, very spiritual. 

I was on a Jesuit retreat and learned about spiritual indifference and that is what I apply to Millennials, life is too short to bother with them.

For example, my Vogue65 does not accept my password so they send me an email to the email address they have on file and connected to Vogue65.  Problem is the email address is probably 8 years old and I can't get into it.  So I have to start a new name Vogue 66 using my original password.  All brought to you be Millennials. 

I try to avoid them whenever I can.  Those that are in the suburbs are so busy with childrearing they have no time for me anyway.

NYC, the meeting ground

Morris County NJ, the breeding ground

Florida, the burial ground

Not sure what all the gibberish here was, but I'll cut right to the chase and answer the question you posed in your opening line:

No, thanks. Mrs. 82 is effen awesome.

[JWags85]

Passwords and identity protection. DAMN MILLENIALS. YOUVE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME

[Spotcheck Billy]

For example, my Vogue65 does not accept my password so they send me an email to the email address they have on file and connected to Vogue65.  Problem is the email address is probably 8 years old and I can't get into it.  So I have to start a new name Vogue 66 using my original password.  All brought to you be Millennials. 

Once you create an online email address (Mail.com, Yahoo etc.) you don't need to change emails and lose your log-in/passwords. My email address is probably 15 years old now and I never have to bother friends to update my email address.

[GooooMarquette]

Once you create an online email address (Mail.com, Yahoo etc.) you don't need to change emails and lose your log-in/passwords. My email address is probably 15 years old now and I never have to bother friends to update my email address.

Yeah, I didn't get that part either. My personal email is about 20 years old now.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Once you create an online email address (Mail.com, Yahoo etc.) you don't need to change emails and lose your log-in/passwords. My email address is probably 15 years old now and I never have to bother friends to update my email address.

Mine is probably 15 years old too. 
And the SBC company hasn't existed since 2005 when they re-became AT&T. 

[Benny B]

I wonder if my Prodigy email address still works.

[HouWarrior]

They are in Brentwood, which has the best non-magnet HS in Tennessee according to USNWR.  It's also ranked higher than any non-magnet public school in the Chicago area except for Stevenson.

You've been away from your home town too long.  Those Southern stereotypes are starting to creep in.

One of my best lawyer friends in Tennessee, lived and worked in a Brentwood home/office , in the best setting I have seen in the USA . A long esplanade/driveway with its own median almost overgrown with mature trees takes one up to his antebellum, pillared 3 story home. The first floor was reception, library/conference and two offices, kitchen restrooms...all totally 19th century like scrolled woodwork...walls, floors, sculptured ceilings. The second floor had a large private retreat/billiards room opening to a balcony overlooking rolling hills. Third floor bore his living quarters.

Over time , we have gone against Avon Williams and Joe Rodgers over the Citizens Bank building and had a crazy one involving a record company specializing in gospel music...I have spent many happy hours in that Brentwood office.