5 year plan

[nyg]

On a side note would anybody love to still have cordell henry or hutch or miller on this roster right now as a real pg??????

I'd like to have Dean Meminger, heck I'd like Chris Paul,  but again like in the other thread, just not a logical discussion. 

[nyg]

Greg F'in Gard hasn't coached against anyone remotely close to as good as even Indiana this year, let alone Kansas.

He will tomorrow against Virginia. 

[GGGG]

O’Neill left us some good players.  Pieper was also a key contributor on those first couple of Deane teams.

Kevin O’Neill...now there’s a guy who came into a dumpster fire and did remarkable work.  Same with Crean.  Wojo had it tougher than both of them, though!

Well obviously not.

But at this time in year five of O'Neill's tenure, he had a 0-1 tournament record under his belt and was 3-2 in year five with losses to Washington State and UWGB.  Of course he ended that season in the S16, but not before getting blown out in Madison and in Tucson.

So let's just see how the next couple of weeks go.

[Lennys Tap]

 
I've been very clear since last March what my expectations were for this season.  (Top 4 BE, 5 seed or better in the NCAA tournament.)  I'm not going to write that off yet.

We may finish top four in the Big East. The league looks to be down big time and we're very experienced and (for what it's worth) deep. Top 5 seed? I can't believe from what I've seen so far we're among the 20 best teams in college BB. Hope like hell I'm wrong, and if so I'll be first in line to tip my hat to Wojo.

[Floorslapper]

Greg F'in Gard hasn't coached against anyone remotely close to as good as even Indiana this year, let alone Kansas.

Well in one less season at the helm, Gard has:

2016 NCAA tourney Wins over Jamie Dixon and Chris Mack
2017 NCAA tourney Wins over Buzz Williams and Jay Wright

WI began the season as 19 in Pomeroy and they've climbed to 11.  Marquette began as 29 and is now at 35.

[wadesworld]

Well in one less season at the helm, Gard has:

2016 NCAA tourney Wins over Jamie Dixon and Chris Mack
2017 NCAA tourney Wins over Buzz Williams and Jay Wright

WI began the season as 19 in Pomeroy and they've climbed to 11.  Marquette began as 29 and is now at 35.

Compare what Gard was left with to what Wojo was left with. That’ll explain a lot to anyone who doesn’t compare John Dawson to Magic Johnson.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm also not going to make crap up like "Kansas just wasn't trying" or "we only beat the injured teams" to dishonestly reinforce my position. 

If you want to say "Wojo hasn't recruited enough slashers" or "the defense has been a consistent problem," then yes.  Those are obvious facts that clearly are marks against him.  But the other stuff?  Nonsense.

I never said "Kansas wasn't trying" or "We only beat the injured teams", but just as it's obvious that Wojo hasn't recruited enough athletes/slashers and that defense has been a constant problem isn't it also obvious that the team that was 15-13 against the rest of its schedule benefitted greatly from playing X and Creighton 4x without their best players? And that the odds of going 4-0 against them if those guys had played would have been astronomical?

[GGGG]

I never said "Kansas wasn't trying" or "We only beat the injured teams", but just as it's obvious that Wojo hasn't recruited enough athletes/slashers and that defense has been a constant problem isn't it also obvious that the team that was 15-13 against the rest of its schedule benefitted greatly from playing X and Creighton 4x without their best players? And that the odds of going 4-0 against them if those guys had played would have been astronomical?

It doesn't matter.

[Floorslapper]

Compare what Gard was left with to what Wojo was left with. That’ll explain a lot to anyone who doesn’t compare John Dawson to Magic Johnson.

I'm fully aware of what Wojo was left with, and know that if he could "coach," he would have done a lot more with what he inherited.  Took all of 3 games for me to figure out he didn't have "it."

And let's get it straight:  I said "Dawson made some passes that were Magic Johnson-esque."   

We can squash this though, does Wojo make the Sweet 16 this year?

[jesmu84]

I'm fully aware of what Wojo was left with, and know that if he could "coach," he would have done a lot more with what he inherited.  Took all of 3 games for me to figure out he didn't have "it."

And let's get it straight:  I said "Dawson made some passes that were Magic Johnson-esque."   

We can squash this though, does Wojo make the Sweet 16 this year?

Just like your poll, this is an awful question.

Virginia had a terrible season last year because they lost in the first round to a 16 seed.

[Mutaman]

and that it's nice to not have to worry about the MU name popping up in any FBI investigations.

Did i miss something?

[Floorslapper]

Just like your poll, this is an awful question.

Virginia had a terrible season last year because they lost in the first round to a 16 seed.

Well the poll was a very simple and straightforward question:  Do we make the NCAA or not?  (Not even if we win a game.)  Not sure what is so offensive about that poll question?

As for Sweet 16 relevance:  Wades seems to think Gard's success at Madison is only the result of what he inherited...and not any proof he can coach, and that Wojo was the victim of what he inherited.  Wojo is now in Year 5.  Wojo is now well past inherited players.  This is the second year of all his guys.  Year 1 we missed the NIT.  We are now in Year 2. 

[Herman Cain]

I'm fully aware of what Wojo was left with, and know that if he could "coach," he would have done a lot more with what he inherited.  Took all of 3 games for me to figure out he didn't have "it."

And let's get it straight:  I said "Dawson made some passes that were Magic Johnson-esque."   

We can squash this though, does Wojo make the Sweet 16 this year?

I still do not understand why Wojo thought it made sense to throw Deonte and John under the bus. Deonte is in the NBA now and John is in the g league so it’s not as if they couldn’t play at the Big East Level.  We could have had a winning team that first year and would have been very well positioned to make some noise the second year. My only explanation is that he was inexperienced as a head coach and made a mistake .

[wadesworld]

Well the poll was a very simple and straightforward question:  Do we make the NCAA or not?  (Not even if we win a game.)  Not sure what is so offensive about that poll question?

As for Sweet 16 relevance:  Wades seems to think Gard's success at Madison is only the result of what he inherited...and not any proof he can coach, and that Wojo was the victim of what he inherited.  Wojo is now in Year 5.  Wojo is now well past inherited players.  This is the second year of all his guys.  Year 1 we missed the NIT.  We are now in Year 2.

This is why nobody can take you seriously.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56952.0

If your poll was a simple straightforward question of whether we make the NCAA Tournament or not and not even asking if we win a game, why is the title of the thread, the question in the poll, and your post in the thread all whether we win an NCAA Tournament game?

[wadesworld]

I still do not understand why Wojo thought it made sense to throw Deonte and John under the bus. Deonte is in the NBA now and John is in the g league so it’s not as if they couldn’t play at the Big East Level.  We could have had a winning team that first year and would have been very well positioned to make some noise the second year. My only explanation is that he was inexperienced as a head coach and made a mistake .

Lol.

[jesmu84]

Well the poll was a very simple and straightforward question:  Do we make the NCAA or not?  (Not even if we win a game.)  Not sure what is so offensive about that poll question?

As for Sweet 16 relevance:  Wades seems to think Gard's success at Madison is only the result of what he inherited...and not any proof he can coach, and that Wojo was the victim of what he inherited.  Wojo is now in Year 5.  Wojo is now well past inherited players.  This is the second year of all his guys.  Year 1 we missed the NIT.  We are now in Year 2.

Your poll asked if we would win a game. Not if we would make the tournament. HUGE difference. Do you understand that?

If you seriously wanted to evaluate this season, you would want the most data points providing the conclusion. So you'd make your questions centered around total wins, big east finish or NCAA appearance (outside of a BET championship).

[Silent Verbal]

I just want to say that this thread is an all-timer.  I no longer have any idea what’s going on in it, and I’m partly to blame for that.  There’s like six different discussions happening.  We’ve got OP’s original question about why people are optimistic about Wojo.  I took it off the rails a little when I brought up the X and Creighton injuries, we also have some discourse about relevance of program histories, Gard vs Wojo, an argument about some poll Ners made, and now John Dawson has been brought into the mix. 

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.  Let’s make Chris Mack pay for leaving the Big East tomorrow.

[skianth16]

I mean, at some point having our best perimeter defender out gives a close loss an asterisk this year right?

Greg would not have made enough difference in either of our losses to date. No way.

Like I mentioned earlier, I think a lot of the Greg commentary right now is similar to the Harry commentary from last year. Holding out hope that a key piece of the puzzle is just out of commission for a while, and when he's back we'll become much better. It's an easy fall back plan to help explain why we're just not quite where we want to be.

Greg had some good moments last year, especially for a freshman, but he wasn't and likely still isn't at the same level as Sacar in terms of defense. And from what we've seen this year, I think I might slot Joe ahead of Greg on defense too. I also think that Greg may have looked better last year at times because he provided a nice spark off the bench replacing awful defenders.

[WarriorDad]

Every time someone writes that 3-2 is where we expected to be, I think to myself, I agree. And I also think to myself, Marquette would also be 3-2 if literally no one was coaching the team.

Playing the same illogical game you play, insert 99% of coaches instead of Wojo and our record would be, 3-2.

[WarriorDad]

That Creighton team was 18-1 before Watson’s injury, 7-9 after. 

Xavier, after losing Sumner, went through a stretch where they lost 6 in a row, during which we played them twice.  The first time we played them, they were also missing Blueitt.  Eventually they figured out how to play without Sumner and made a nice run in the tournament (crapshoot), but we caught them at the best possible time.

Did you also look at who they lost to?  The 18-1 was against a mix of good and weak teams.  Truman State, Longwood, Akron, Buffalo, Loyola (MD), Oral Roberts, Wazzu, UMKC, The 7-9 they went after the Watson injury, how many would they have lost whether Watson was playing?  Those losses included at Marquette, at Villanova,  at Georgetown, Villanova again, at Seton Hall.  Most of those if not all of those they are losing anyway.

Xavier's 6 game losing streak.  At Marquette, #2 Villanova, at Providence, at Seton Hall, #22 Butler, Marquette.    They were going to lose at least 4 if not 5 of those regardless.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Greg would not have made enough difference in either of our losses to date. No way.

Like I mentioned earlier, I think a lot of the Greg commentary right now is similar to the Harry commentary from last year. Holding out hope that a key piece of the puzzle is just out of commission for a while, and when he's back we'll become much better. It's an easy fall back plan to help explain why we're just not quite where we want to be.

Greg had some good moments last year, especially for a freshman, but he wasn't and likely still isn't at the same level as Sacar in terms of defense. And from what we've seen this year, I think I might slot Joe ahead of Greg on defense too. I also think that Greg may have looked better last year at times because he provided a nice spark off the bench replacing awful defenders.

1st statement, probably right though impossible to know. 2nd statement, I personally remember there being a lot more hope for Harry being a difference maker than there is for Greg this season, maybe I'm wrong though. 3rd statement, Greg was our best defender last season and I think he would be our best defender this season. He led the team in points per possession allowed and it was by a very wide margin.

[CleanishProgram]

Playing the same illogical game you play, insert 99% of coaches instead of Wojo and our record would be, 3-2.

I can't agree with 99%, but you do help make my point. In Wojo defense comments, you and others have tried to bring down the fire wojo fervor by pointing out that we are performing at expectations from a record standpoint. Sure...but I believe the product on the court has been absolutely disappointing and the way we have lost is meaningful in terms of the ongoing dialogue.

Its hard to see this year's team beating any other non-conference, non-cupcake teams now that Kansas has drawn up the blueprint.

[GGGG]

I can't agree with 99%, but you do help make my point. In Wojo defense comments, you and others have tried to bring down the fire wojo fervor by pointing out that we are performing at expectations from a record standpoint. Sure...but I believe the product on the court has been absolutely disappointing and the way we have lost is meaningful in terms of the ongoing dialogue.

Its hard to see this year's team beating any other non-conference, non-cupcake teams now that Kansas has drawn up the blueprint.

You're making the assumption that teams don't improve, coaches don't introduce new concepts and opponents execute game plans perfectly.  There are plenty of examples of poor Marquette performances followed by good ones against quality teams.

[Charlotte Warrior]

In a sincere attempt to understand "the other side of the aisle" - I'm really curious, 4 years and 5 games into the Wojo era, do the Wojo faithful still feel the same optimism from Years 2 or 3 or 4 that Wojo will bring Marquette back to national relevance?

I think most would agree that he's an above average recruiter and that it's nice to not have to worry about the MU name popping up in any FBI investigations. But has his performance to date - accounting for all 130 games - still made you think he's the guy?

To me, the guy seems inflexible as a coach. One-dimensional offenses, limited in-game adjustments, bad (but improving) defenses, not competing for 40 full minutes, sub-par roster management... All the same things he has been critiqued for since Year 1 seem to still be there, with defense maybe being an exception with this year's team.

Didn't anyone watch the IU game.    How, where and what has given people the idea that our defense has improved or is improving? 

[GGGG]

Didn't anyone watch the IU game.    How, where and what has given people the idea that our defense has improved or is improving? 

Statistically it has.