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Author Topic: Guards  (Read 11308 times)

Goose

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Re: Guards
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2018, 10:39:50 AM »
jesmu
Completely fair and I feel the same way. Only difference, what are realistic expectations for the newcomers? Just because we landed high level grad transfers in the past does not mean it is an automatic.
I definitely still have hopes that Morrow and the guard pan out.

jesmu84

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Re: Guards
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2018, 10:41:52 AM »
jesmu
Completely fair and I feel the same way. Only difference, what are realistic expectations for the newcomers? Just because we landed high level grad transfers in the past does not mean it is an automatic.
I definitely still have hopes that Morrow and the guard pan out.

Honestly not sure. I would hope for similar numbers from their previous programs. Maybe that's asking for too much if theyre moving up in opponent difficulty.

But I do believe they will all need time to adapt/adjust

1SE

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Re: Guards
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2018, 10:59:36 AM »
Wojo knows more than we do. Playing time isn't some sort of addition for the fans.

And I'm not saying he's great, but Markus' horrible PG play has been a bit exaggerated here.  After his three early turnovers, he settled down a bit.  His hero ball was a clear problem too.  Those are all correctable mistakes - the question is will he correct them.


I would say that JC's contributions were a key part to determining our success this year.

But game time is different than practice. You need to see how players respond in a game. Sometimes it takes players more time to get into a game (or game mode for the season).

I see zero drawback in giving JC more PT vs. the cupcakes. We aren't going to lose. We need him at PG. Additional minutes can only help him get his "game form".

Frankly, I haven't seen anything over the past 5 years that shows me that Wojo is a better game time manager of personnel than a good high school coach - some of which are probably on this board. And the corollary - are there people on this board that could do a better job of in-game coaching than Wojo? Yes.
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ATL MU Warrior

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Re: Guards
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2018, 11:02:32 AM »
But game time is different than practice. You need to see how players respond in a game. Sometimes it takes players more time to get into a game (or game mode for the season).

I see zero drawback in giving JC more PT vs. the cupcakes. We aren't going to lose. We need him at PG. Additional minutes can only help him get his "game form".

Frankly, I haven't seen anything over the past 5 years that shows me that Wojo is a better game time manager of personnel than a good high school coach - some of which are probably on this board. And the corollary - are there people on this board that could do a better job of in-game coaching than Wojo? Yes.
Don’t be an idiot

1SE

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Re: Guards
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2018, 11:06:35 AM »
Don’t be an idiot

I'm not saying me - but given the level of basketball knowledge on this board - certainly so.

I also didn't say run a D-I basketball program from top to bottom. I said the 40 minutes when the clock is running which is one small part of the overall job.

 
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brewcity77

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Re: Guards
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2018, 11:08:26 AM »
First, the message boards were ready to run Carlino out of town after his first few games. Until that Georgia Tech game, the consensus was that he was nothing more than a chucker.

Chartouny had, like Carlino, some mixed results in a comparable league. Honestly, it seems like Fordham fans expected to miss him more than BYU fans did Carlino. They are vastly different players, so I don't expect their numbers to look similar at all, but I don't think this team has the same needs 2015 did either. I hope he can play 20-25 minutes and give us about 8 ppg/6 apg/2 spg with solid defense.
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1SE

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Re: Guards
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2018, 11:10:12 AM »
First, the message boards were ready to run Carlino out of town after his first few games. Until that Georgia Tech game, the consensus was that he was nothing more than a chucker.

Chartouny had, like Carlino, some mixed results in a comparable league. Honestly, it seems like Fordham fans expected to miss him more than BYU fans did Carlino. They are vastly different players, so I don't expect their numbers to look similar at all, but I don't think this team has the same needs 2015 did either. I hope he can play 20-25 minutes and give us about 8 ppg/6 apg/2 spg with solid defense.

If he gives us 6 apg we're golden.
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brewcity77

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Re: Guards
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2018, 11:11:35 AM »
If he gives us 6 apg we're golden.

I know that's a lofty number, but honestly my only real hopes for him on offense are to be enough of a threat to be respected to drive or shoot and mainly distribute, distribute, distribute.
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GGGG

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Re: Guards
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2018, 11:56:55 AM »
are there people on this board that could do a better job of in-game coaching than Wojo? Yes.


Are you serious?  If you truly believe this, you have a complete lack of understanding of how difficult the job is to be a basketball coach.  And I'm just talking "in-game."  It's not just some sort of video game.

Goose

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Re: Guards
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2018, 01:01:20 PM »
Brew
You are correct, many uneducated ball followers wanted to chase Matt out of town. Anyone that knows a lick about the sport knew otherwise.

WarriorDad

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Re: Guards
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2018, 01:05:20 PM »

Frankly, I haven't seen anything over the past 5 years that shows me that Wojo is a better game time manager of personnel than a good high school coach - some of which are probably on this board. And the corollary - are there people on this board that could do a better job of in-game coaching than Wojo? Yes.

Dumb.  This is like the crazies that say Alabama could beat the worst NFL team, each year those people come out of the woodwork, too.
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Jockey

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Re: Guards
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2018, 01:10:27 PM »
Carlino was a very average player.

He was a 40% shooter - not 40% from 3, but 40% overall. He only scored 15 a game despite being a designated gunner on a bad shooting team.

Goose

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Re: Guards
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2018, 01:12:28 PM »
Jockey
Thanks for making my point.

Herman Cain

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Re: Guards
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2018, 01:26:32 PM »
Carlino was a very average player.

He was a 40% shooter - not 40% from 3, but 40% overall. He only scored 15 a game despite being a designated gunner on a bad shooting team.
Carlino stats by year. Was 42 percent from three in his year at MU.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/51309/matt-carlino
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Guards
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2018, 01:29:36 PM »
Carlino stats by year. Was 42 percent from three in his year at MU.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/51309/matt-carlino

Yes, and was 40% from the floor.

But Goose is right on this one. Car3no was an excellent player for us.
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brewcity77

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Re: Guards
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2018, 04:10:33 PM »
Carlino was a very average player.

He was a 40% shooter - not 40% from 3, but 40% overall. He only scored 15 a game despite being a designated gunner on a bad shooting team.

And this is why FG% can be a deceiving stat. Carlino had an eFG% of 53.3, which is very good. Not Howard level good, but on that team it was elite considering he was at the top of every opponent's scouting chart. That team was not good. Without Carlino, it would've been disastrously bad.
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Its DJOver

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Re: Guards
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2018, 06:08:15 PM »
I think the most frustrating thing about Markus is that he has shown flashes of being a decent PG, but nothing consistently, and still too many turnovers.  Looking at the play by play, there was a stretch in the second half where Markus was making all the right decisions.

"7:45-Joseph Chartouny made three point jumper.  Assisted by Markus Howard."  Markus beat his man off the dribble, Joeseph's came to help, and Markus made the right pass, for a wide open three.

"7:07-Theo John made dunk.  Assisted by Markus Howard."  High pick-n-roll, Theo's man doubled Markus, one ball fake, and then a dump down to Theo for an easy dunk.

"6:34-Sam Hauser made layup, assisted by Markus Howard."  Joey set a back screen on Sam's man, and Markus made a nice entry pass into Sam for an easy layup.  Sam also got fouled and converted the three point play.

"5:59-Offensive foul on Theo John."  Same exact play with Theo.  Found him wide open, just the PC defender rotated over and drew a charge.  No basket, but still the right play by Markus.

That's 3 assists, and another that could have been one in about 2 minutes.  That's a very good return.  I still think Chartouny should be the primary ball handler, because that allows Markus to run off screens, where he is at his best, but flashes have been there from Markus that he can still be a decent backup, which is all we should need him to be.

GGGG

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Re: Guards
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2018, 06:10:12 PM »
Well stated.  He shouldn't be the primary PG, but Markus can play the point if he plays within himself.

brewcity77

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Re: Guards
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2018, 06:16:05 PM »
I think the most frustrating thing about Markus is that he has shown flashes of being a decent PG, but nothing consistently, and still too many turnovers.  Looking at the play by play, there was a stretch in the second half where Markus was making all the right decisions.

"7:45-Joseph Chartouny made three point jumper.  Assisted by Markus Howard."  Markus beat his man off the dribble, Joeseph's came to help, and Markus made the right pass, for a wide open three.

"7:07-Theo John made dunk.  Assisted by Markus Howard."  High pick-n-roll, Theo's man doubled Markus, one ball fake, and then a dump down to Theo for an easy dunk.

"6:34-Sam Hauser made layup, assisted by Markus Howard."  Joey set a back screen on Sam's man, and Markus made a nice entry pass into Sam for an easy layup.  Sam also got fouled and converted the three point play.

"5:59-Offensive foul on Theo John."  Same exact play with Theo.  Found him wide open, just the PC defender rotated over and drew a charge.  No basket, but still the right play by Markus.

That's 3 assists, and another that could have been one in about 2 minutes.  That's a very good return.  I still think Chartouny should be the primary ball handler, because that allows Markus to run off screens, where he is at his best, but flashes have been there from Markus that he can still be a decent backup, which is all we should need him to be.

I enjoyed that stretch greatly. The Chartouny and John passes really stood out at the time. It felt like last year with Rowsey. Some games he was a complete player, scoring and dishing, others he wouldn't give up the ball.

And here I was hoping what Markus would pick up from Rowsey in the off-season was The Thing...
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