Team Chemistry vs. Winning Basketball - I'll take the talent

[wadesworld]

Have heard more than 1 person mention that even if Arizona were to hypothetically get hammered by the NCAA (they won't) and Nico reconsidered his options they aren't sure they would want Nico.  Too many good guards in Howard, Elliott, and McCewan next year.  There would be chemistry issues.

Give me the 1 and done talent all day, every day.  Give me Nico.  Give me Grimes.  Give me Hank.  Give me Reddish, Zion, and Barrett.  If it causes a guy like DeLaurier to go from happy to be on the court being an okay player to being pissed he's on the bench, good luck at your next stop.

You know what creates good chemistry?  Winning basketball games.  I'm glad we have good kids who enjoy being around each other.  I'll take KD and Draymond though.  Guys who are pissed when they aren't performing and will demand more out of each other.

Just one man's opinion, but no way am I passing up on Nico Mannion to keep the guys we currently have happy to be around.

[brewcity77]

Watching Langford tonight reminded me how much it sucked to miss on Grimes. It's amazing what a singular talent can do.

[Floorslapper]

Have heard more than 1 person mention that even if Arizona were to hypothetically get hammered by the NCAA (they won't) and Nico reconsidered his options they aren't sure they would want Nico.  Too many good guards in Howard, Elliott, and McCewan next year.  There would be chemistry issues.

Give me the 1 and done talent all day, every day.  Give me Nico.  Give me Grimes.  Give me Hank.  Give me Reddish, Zion, and Barrett.  If it causes a guy like DeLaurier to go from happy to be on the court being an okay player to being pissed he's on the bench, good luck at your next stop.

You know what creates good chemistry?  Winning basketball games.  I'm glad we have good kids who enjoy being around each other.  I'll take KD and Draymond though.  Guys who are pissed when they aren't performing and will demand more out of each other.

Just one man's opinion, but no way am I passing up on Nico Mannion to keep the guys we currently have happy to be around.

Get the point...but essentially we had that last year with Rowsey.  His play was off the charts good offensively (granted as a 5th year senior), but, he was ELITE.  We still missed the NCAA.  That was my primary concern coming into this year..losing him...and the fact that we couldn't even get to NCAA with Andrew.

[WarriorDad]

Get the point...but essentially we had that last year with Rowsey.  His play was off the charts good offensively (granted as a 5th year senior), but, he was ELITE.  We still missed the NCAA.  That was my primary concern coming into this year..losing him...and the fact that we couldn't even get to NCAA with Andrew.

Elite scorer, terrible defender.  What was the net outcome?

[NotAnAlum]

I think you've already got as much talent as you're going to get.  Its be exciting that Wojo has gotten close on a couple of those recent 5 stars but the truth is MU is not going to be able to recruit those guys until we establish ourselves as a power house.  To do that we've got to win with this talent level or less.  I'm afraid that is the flaw with Wojo.  He is a great recruiter and that and having Stan keep him in the running but sooner or later they have to be able to take this level of talent and win this year and next year and the year after that.  Maybe then they will close the deal on some of these guys they are getting in the door with.  My concern is that for as good a recruiter as he is I don't see a guy who can design schemes to maximize his advantages and take away what the other team is trying to do.  MU teams all to frequently don't play like a team on offense or defense.  They don't create easy looks.  This team has guys that can create a number of tough matchups but we don't run plays that exploit them.  There is to much Markus running around picks where I know before the play starts exactly where he is going to end up when the pass comes back to him.  There is too much Markus driving to the hoop with never a kick out to one of our many 3 pt. shooters.  We've seen this for 5 years so I doubt it is going to change.  We will never be able to recruit talent good enough to be a top 15 program without being able to enforce team basketball.

[Floorslapper]

Elite scorer, terrible defender.  What was the net outcome?

How about this?  At least being able to compete in a game against a Top 50 caliber team like the Indiana team we played tonight.  Hell, we gave up 96 tonight.  How many times did we gave up 96 with Rowsey the terrible defender last year?  1 time, against National Champ Nova at Nova.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

How about this?  At least being able to compete in a game against a Top 50 caliber team like the Indiana team we played tonight.  Hell, we gave up 96 tonight.  How many times did we gave up 96 with Rowsey the terrible defender last year?  1 time, against National Champ Nova at Nova.

We gave up high 80s n 90s all the time last year.  And not defending tonight, but if we dont turn the ball over like crazy the first 5 minutes of rach half this game could have been a different story.  Chartouney must start at pg n play 25+ minutes a game or this team has no chance.  Need his defense at the point n a need a pg that can dribble.

[Floorslapper]

We gave up high 80s n 90s all the time last year.  And not defending tonight, but if we dont turn the ball over like crazy the first 5 minutes of rach half this game could have been a different story.  Chartouney must start at pg n play 25+ minutes a game or this team has no chance.  Need his defense at the point n a need a pg that can dribble.

True. We did.  But at least we usually weren't blown the F out of the game.  Saw this on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1062908794819231750

[#UnleashSean]

Elite scorer, terrible defender.  What was the net outcome?

Was rowsey actually the problem there? I seem to recall when Markus got hurt marquette played amazing with Rowsey playing 40 minute games. We then promptly lost to DePaul once Markus came back. Maybe it's a coaching flaw.

[wadesworld]

As I said, give me the talented players.  You can take your 5'8" 23 year old Rowseys.  I'll take my 6'5" 18 year old Grimes and 6'3" 17 year old Mannions.  Rowsey was great...on one side of the ball.  Markus is great...at shooting.  Give me all around studs.  If it creates chemistry issues so be it.  I think Warriors fans will take Draymond and KD yelling at each other to go along with their 3 rings in 4 years.  Talent wins in basketball.  Unless there are serious character/legal issues (a guy like the kid who was supposed to come here but lit a girl's hair on fire in chemistry class before being accepted into KState and then kicked out from there), I'll take competitive guys who will get pissed at each other when they're not performing and a bunch of wins to go with it and you can take your Kumbaya singing group and be best friends.

[brewcity77]

Get the point...but essentially we had that last year with Rowsey.

No. Not close. Rowsey was not what Langford is. What Grimes could've been for us. Or Mannion.

The kid could score and spread the floor, but while he was a great offensive player, he wasn't remotely close to being an elite college player.

[Silent Verbal]

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here.  So you’d take studs like Mannion and Grimes?  Wojo would, too.  In fact, he threw everything but the kitchen sink at those two guys and whiffed.  The only player of that caliber Wojo’s gotten in his 5 years here is Hank, and that only happened because we were willing to waste a scholarship on his hack brother.  This current team is more or less the talent level we’ll have until we can string together some legitimately successful seasons.

And one more thing:  It doesn’t matter if Arizona gets the death penalty and Sean Miller is working on a chain gang at this time next year, Mannion isn’t coming to Marquette.  He’ll end up at Duke or Kansas or Kentucky or an upper tier West Coast school like Oregon or UCLA. 

[skianth16]

Was rowsey actually the problem there? I seem to recall when Markus got hurt marquette played amazing with Rowsey playing 40 minute games. We then promptly lost to DePaul once Markus came back. Maybe it's a coaching flaw.

Hmmm.... interesting theory....

[Newsdreams]

Have heard more than 1 person mention that even if Arizona were to hypothetically get hammered by the NCAA (they won't) and Nico reconsidered his options they aren't sure they would want Nico.  Too many good guards in Howard, Elliott, and McCewan next year.  There would be chemistry issues.

Give me the 1 and done talent all day, every day.  Give me Nico.  Give me Grimes.  Give me Hank.  Give me Reddish, Zion, and Barrett.  If it causes a guy like DeLaurier to go from happy to be on the court being an okay player to being pissed he's on the bench, good luck at your next stop.

You know what creates good chemistry?  Winning basketball games.  I'm glad we have good kids who enjoy being around each other.  I'll take KD and Draymond though.  Guys who are pissed when they aren't performing and will demand more out of each other.

Just one man's opinion, but no way am I passing up on Nico Mannion to keep the guys we currently have happy to be around.

I'm sure staff would take him unless they knew something happened during recruitment (not implying it did). And I would not worry bout next year JC not here we would have what 5 guards? 2-3 PGs? I think there would be time for all.

[Floorslapper]

No. Not close. Rowsey was not what Langford is. What Grimes could've been for us. Or Mannion.

The kid could score and spread the floor, but while he was a great offensive player, he wasn't remotely close to being an elite college player.

Rowsey wasn't those guys in age, or size.  He wasn't a great defender, yet clearly, scheme-wise, we have a problem.  We gave up 96 last night.  Rowsey became the whipping boy for our poor defense, but the reality is, is that the scheme paired with the roster has been wrong..every year.

Agree to disagree on if Rowsey was an elite college player.  His offensive prowess was ELITE and I have little doubt his Ken Pom ratings will exceed all the guys you mentioned above.

[79Warrior]

As I said, give me the talented players.  You can take your 5'8" 23 year old Rowseys.  I'll take my 6'5" 18 year old Grimes and 6'3" 17 year old Mannions.  Rowsey was great...on one side of the ball.  Markus is great...at shooting.  Give me all around studs.  If it creates chemistry issues so be it.  I think Warriors fans will take Draymond and KD yelling at each other to go along with their 3 rings in 4 years.  Talent wins in basketball.  Unless there are serious character/legal issues (a guy like the kid who was supposed to come here but lit a girl's hair on fire in chemistry class before being accepted into KState and then kicked out from there), I'll take competitive guys who will get pissed at each other when they're not performing and a bunch of wins to go with it and you can take your Kumbaya singing group and be best friends.

Everyone would take the guys you mentioned. Wojo tried and missed. By and large, MU does not land those types of guys regardless of who is the coach. We get the occasional stud, but not often. Wojo is trying to get them. It is not easy.

[wadesworld]

Everyone would take the guys you mentioned. Wojo tried and missed. By and large, MU does not land those types of guys regardless of who is the coach. We get the occasional stud, but not often. Wojo is trying to get them. It is not easy.

Some Scoopers stated that they were somewhat glad that we missed out on Nico because having a freshman come in and take over the reins when we already have guys like Markus, McCewan, and Elliott on the roster might cause chemistry issues, and I think some may have said the same about Grimes but I'm not certain on that one.

[Its DJOver]

Some Scoopers stated that they were somewhat glad that we missed out on Nico because having a freshman come in and take over the reins when we already have guys like Markus, McCewan, and Elliott on the roster might cause chemistry issues, and I think some may have said the same about Grimes but I'm not certain on that one.

I can't speak for everyone, and I would have been thrilled for any of the 5* we've been in on, but I think that line of thinking is more of a consolation thought.  Something along the lines of "yea we didn't get the stud, but we still have players that (in theory) can play the position".  Anyone who was glad we didn't get Nico doesn't know much about the PG position.

[brewcity77]

Agree to disagree on if Rowsey was an elite college player.  His offensive prowess was ELITE and I have little doubt his Ken Pom ratings will exceed all the guys you mentioned above.

Elite college players in my opinion are All Americans. At the minimum, first team all conference. Rowsey was never even second team all conference in the Big East. Good offensive player, not even remotely in the conversation as an elite college player.

The last truly elite college player we had was Jae Crowder. Ellenson was close, but not quite at Crowder's level. Markus and Sam look to have that kind of potential, but aren't there yet.

[4everwarriors]

At this point, why would an elite talent take a chance on playing for Wojo?