G-League to offer $125K to top high school players

[#UnleashSean]

No it's the subsidizing *YOU* referred to in your initial post.  You're in the process of shifting goalposts now.

Am I though? I said the WNBA was completely subsidized by the NBA. That is true. And did you read the rest of the post?

"When the wnba isn't completely subsidized   by their partner nba teams, when people actually show up to the games, and when people actually care about their product they can have an argument"

Are you going to sit here and say that the WNBA players have as much value to the NBA as any of the prospects they are talking about? You're arguing that a developmental league that's just finally being built up and the top level program for women both being subsidized is a valid arguing point against what I stated. Only one of these leagues being subsidized actually matters for the statement I made. Which to reiterate was talking about a very specific point in salary that a WNBA player stated on twitter.

This is the last post I am making on this topic with you. I see the way that you (And Wades, warrio da coough chicos, Pakuni, and Jay bee) argue to the death about things said on this board like children screaming about which superhero would beat another superhero. I don't feel like getting caught up in any of that.

So I'll say overall argument one last time, and you can feel free to respond to it: I believe that an elite 18 year old prospect in the GLeague brings more value to the NBA then the woman who posted on twitter saying that it was unfair that they will make more then the top level talent of the WNBA. I believe that when the WNBA brings more things of value to the table then the male prospects they will have a fair argument. (I also believe they are paid relatively well and in general think all sport athletes are very very overpaid)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Am I though? I said the WNBA was completely subsidized by the NBA. That is true. And did you read the rest of the post?

"When the wnba isn't completely subsidized   by their partner nba teams, when people actually show up to the games, and when people actually care about their product they can have an argument"

Are you going to sit here and say that the WNBA players have as much value to the NBA as any of the prospects they are talking about? You're arguing that a developmental league that's just finally being built up and the top level program for women both being subsidized is a valid arguing point against what I stated. Only one of these leagues being subsidized actually matters for the statement I made. Which to reiterate was talking about a very specific point in salary that a WNBA player stated on twitter.

This is the last post I am making on this topic with you. I see the way that you (And Wades, warrio da coough chicos, Pakuni, and Jay bee) argue to the death about things said on this board like children screaming about which superhero would beat another superhero. I don't feel like getting caught up in any of that.

So I'll say overall argument one last time, and you can feel free to respond to it: I believe that an elite 18 year old prospect in the GLeague brings more value to the NBA then the woman who posted on twitter saying that it was unfair that they will make more then the top level talent of the WNBA. I believe that when the WNBA brings more things of value to the table then the male prospects they will have a fair argument. (I also believe they are paid relatively well and in general think all sport athletes are very very overpaid)

Why do you believe that though? Whether the prospect goes to the g-league, college, international, etc as long as they end up getting drafted when eligible they are worth an equal amount of money. Other than a possible boost to g-league attendance and ratings by having better players in that league, there is no benefit to the NBA.

[#UnleashSean]

That's not an apples to apples comparison. The NBA will be paying for these contracts whereas individual teams pay for the contracts of MLB minor leaguers. MLB teams directly benefit because they control the minor leaguer who can make their major league team better. The NBA doesn't really benefit from a player playing in the G-League. As long as the teams all have full rosters, the NBA makes money. So given that the WNBA is better attended and watched than the G-League, I would say the NBA gets a better return the WNBA.

Now, this all changes if the g-league does get a 1:1 minor to major league team and the teams start paying these contracts. Then it makes more sense.

I would have to argue the first point of comparison not being exact doesn't matter. We're looking at the development of players for the betterment of the league overall, not whos directly paying who. The development of these players adds value to the NBA, as well as the MLB.

The second point being does the NBA actually get a return from the WNBA at all? in 2016 half of the WNBA teams lost money, with some of the other half either barely making by. The NBA pays for those teams that do not turn a profit. I cant find anything that states how much the NBA makes off the WNBA, or loses, maybe you know of a source.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure thats where the GLeague is headed. It wasn't very long ago the DLeague was essentially worthless and not much time has passed since the NBA began this new venture. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't each team in the process of getting a GLeague affliate now. That and the two-way contracts are the first steps towards a real minor league.

[#UnleashSean]

Why do you believe that though? Whether the prospect goes to the g-league, college, international, etc as long as they end up getting drafted when eligible they are worth an equal amount of money. Other than a possible boost to g-league attendance and ratings by having better players in that league, there is no benefit to the NBA.

The players will play in an NBA system, with NBA rules, against loads better talent than in college. That plus being able to attend longer and more practices; have full access to agents, endorsements, and any training they or the nba sees fit. All of that adds up to better players faster then if they go to college or international.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I would have to argue the first point of comparison not being exact doesn't matter. We're looking at the development of players for the betterment of the league overall, not whos directly paying who. The development of these players adds value to the NBA, as well as the MLB.

I guess this is where we disagree. First I would say that the difference in development from the g-league vs. college (or anything else) is negligible. Second and more importantly, I don't think the quality of players really impacts the NBA all that much. The NBA is a star driven business. LeBron was going to be a star regardless of how he entered the league. Same with Steph and Durant and Giannis etc...I don't think any one of them would have been better if they had spent a year in the g-league. And if a player doesn't develop properly, there are hundreds more ready to take their place.

The second point being does the NBA actually get a return from the WNBA at all? in 2016 half of the WNBA teams lost money, with some of the other half either barely making by. The NBA pays for those teams that do not turn a profit. I cant find anything that states how much the NBA makes off the WNBA, or loses, maybe you know of a source.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure thats where the GLeague is headed. It wasn't very long ago the DLeague was essentially worthless and not much time has passed since the NBA began this new venture. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't each team in the process of getting a GLeague affliate now. That and the two-way contracts are the first steps towards a real minor league.

The second point being does the NBA actually get a return from the WNBA at all? in 2016 half of the WNBA teams lost money, with some of the other half either barely making by. The NBA pays for those teams that do not turn a profit. I cant find anything that states how much the NBA makes off the WNBA, or loses, maybe you know of a source.

Not much of one. But it's bigger than the G-League.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure thats where the GLeague is headed. It wasn't very long ago the DLeague was essentially worthless and not much time has passed since the NBA began this new venture. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't each team in the process of getting a GLeague affliate now. That and the two-way contracts are the first steps towards a real minor league.

I agree that it is heading this way. And when they get there and teams start paying for these contract, it makes total sense.

The players will play in an NBA system, with NBA rules, against loads better talent than in college. That plus being able to attend longer and more practices; have full access to agents, endorsements, and any training they or the nba sees fit. All of that adds up to better players faster then if they go to college or international.

Sure, I can understand why it could be better for the players (though I'm skeptical it will be that much better). I just don't see a scenario where people stop watching the NBA because the quality of players has dropped.

[GGGG]

Am I though? I said the WNBA was completely subsidized by the NBA. That is true. And did you read the rest of the post?

"When the wnba isn't completely subsidized   by their partner nba teams, when people actually show up to the games, and when people actually care about their product they can have an argument"

Yeah.  This is where I pointed out that the average WNBA game draws five times the crowd of the average G League game.

[tower912]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2018/10/19/detroit-pistons-g-league-henry-ellenson/1696437002/

[Galway Eagle]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2018/10/19/detroit-pistons-g-league-henry-ellenson/1696437002/

I have this suspicion that had he gone to the GLeague from HS he wouldn't be pulling in the millions he is now.

[🏀]

Why do you believe that though? Whether the prospect goes to the g-league, college, international, etc as long as they end up getting drafted when eligible they are worth an equal amount of money. Other than a possible boost to g-league attendance and ratings by having better players in that league, there is no benefit to the NBA.

Adidas is paying these caliber players more, isn't that their market worth?

[#UnleashSean]

I have this suspicion that had he gone to the GLeague from HS he wouldn't be pulling in the millions he is now.

He was a tall guy who had a good handle. Someone was taking him in the first round either way.

[MU82]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2018/10/19/detroit-pistons-g-league-henry-ellenson/1696437002/

Smoke and Mirrors

[Lennys Tap]

He was a tall guy who had a good handle. Someone was taking him in the first round either way.

Out of HS Henry was top 10. After 1 year of college he was #18. Everything I've seen says he was out of the 1st round by the end of his sophomore year and a late second rounder (if that) by his senior year. Guy can't shoot.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Adidas is paying these caliber players more, isn't that their market worth?

Not sure if teal so apologies if it's going over my head, but yes, that is their market worth to shoe companies, and they should be allowed to pursue that *cough* NCAA *cough*. To the NBA? I don't see it. These shoe companies are trying to lock these players down for their "team" and keep them from going to another team. Assuming these players are good enough, they aren't going anywhere but the NBA.

[WarriorDad]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2018/10/19/detroit-pistons-g-league-henry-ellenson/1696437002/

He feels like a G league player.  He was a top 20 pick because that rookie class one of the worst NBA draft classes in years.

[forgetful]

I have this suspicion that had he gone to the GLeague from HS he wouldn't be pulling in the millions he is now.

Forget GLeague. Had he gone to a Kentucky/Kansas/Duke/UNC, he would have seen little playing time, and may have never even made the NBA.

He benefitted supremely, by being able to be featured on a weak MU team.  On a better team, or against better competition (GLeague), he would have been exposed and would have never seen his first big contract.

He should be thanking MU profusely, for what they got him and his family.

[GGGG]

Forget GLeague. Had he gone to a Kentucky/Kansas/Duke/UNC, he would have seen little playing time, and may have never even made the NBA.

???  He would have clearly been in the rotation at any of those schools.  Yeah his professional career has been a disappointment, but he was All-BE and freshman of the year in the conference.  He probably would have been more efficient in a more limited role.

Let's not retroactively act as if the guy was a stiff.

[brewcity77]

The more I think about this, the more I think going straight to the G League is an absolute dead end.

First, it hurts marketability because playing for a college with millions of fans and playing in televised games builds a fanbase before you reach the NBA that the G League never will, or at least not for 40+ years.

Second, would you rather play against 352 NCAA teams with a lower talent level that will allow marquee 18-year-olds to stand out or against 25-29 year old men that will physically abuse you and are desperate to prove they deserve a shot at the league? Few players will increase their stock this way and many will see it decline.

Third, more games, worse travel and living conditions, less media exposure, the injury risk is higher while the benefits are lower.

Honestly, that comment from the agent seems correct. I'd guess very few players, if any, take "advantage" of this.

[Herman Cain]

The more I think about this, the more I think going straight to the G League is an absolute dead end.

First, it hurts marketability because playing for a college with millions of fans and playing in televised games builds a fanbase before you reach the NBA that the G League never will, or at least not for 40+ years.

Second, would you rather play against 352 NCAA teams with a lower talent level that will allow marquee 18-year-olds to stand out or against 25-29 year old men that will physically abuse you and are desperate to prove they deserve a shot at the league? Few players will increase their stock this way and many will see it decline.

Third, more games, worse travel and living conditions, less media exposure, the injury risk is higher while the benefits are lower.

Honestly, that comment from the agent seems correct. I'd guess very few players, if any, take "advantage" of this.

I agree with this analysis.

[WarriorDad]

The more I think about this, the more I think going straight to the G League is an absolute dead end.

First, it hurts marketability because playing for a college with millions of fans and playing in televised games builds a fanbase before you reach the NBA that the G League never will, or at least not for 40+ years.

Second, would you rather play against 352 NCAA teams with a lower talent level that will allow marquee 18-year-olds to stand out or against 25-29 year old men that will physically abuse you and are desperate to prove they deserve a shot at the league? Few players will increase their stock this way and many will see it decline.

Third, more games, worse travel and living conditions, less media exposure, the injury risk is higher while the benefits are lower.

Honestly, that comment from the agent seems correct. I'd guess very few players, if any, take "advantage" of this.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of 17 and 18 year old boys.

[brewcity77]

Don't underestimate the stupidity of 17 and 18 year old boys.

There's far more money in college and agents will know that. Hell, I'm confident Ayton & Zion got more than $125k and under the table, so tax free.

[MU82]

???  He would have clearly been in the rotation at any of those schools.  Yeah his professional career has been a disappointment, but he was All-BE and freshman of the year in the conference.  He probably would have been more efficient in a more limited role.

Let's not retroactively act as if the guy was a stiff.

Thank you.

[WarriorDad]

???  He would have clearly been in the rotation at any of those schools.  Yeah his professional career has been a disappointment, but he was All-BE and freshman of the year in the conference.  He probably would have been more efficient in a more limited role.

Let's not retroactively act as if the guy was a stiff.

Not a stiff, but at least amongst my MU friends we didn't think his pro career would amount to much.  So far it hasn't.

[forgetful]

???  He would have clearly been in the rotation at any of those schools.  Yeah his professional career has been a disappointment, but he was All-BE and freshman of the year in the conference.  He probably would have been more efficient in a more limited role.

Let's not retroactively act as if the guy was a stiff.

I think you are missing a big gap between being a reasonable draft candidate and a stiff.  At those Blue Bloods, he would have been the 8th or 9th guy in the rotation.  Not because he was a stiff, but because there were better guys on those rosters. 

HE had limitations, he was not particularly quick, couldn't play defense and was a marginal shooter.  His strengths were size, handle and rebounding.  For us, that happened to still be our number 1 option.  He got showcased, that got him drafted. 

He would not have been a top level option at a blue blood, and would likely have been at least a 3-4 year player, and very likely may never have been drafted.

He should be grateful for MU.

[GGGG]

I don't think he would have been the 8th or 9th guy in the rotation at a blue blood.  Yeah he got "showcased" at Marquette, but he was on draft radars even before he started college.  I'm not sure how much his performance at Marquette played into his draft position.

[Jay Bee]

would likely have been at least a 3-4 year player, and very likely may never have been drafted.

smh. This is a lie. Going elsewhere may have been BETTER for his draft stock after one year. Glad he came here (pause), but to pretend MU was his salvation isn't something I can agree with.