Year 2 (Archie), Year 5 Wojo

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Even if we lose to Butler, nothing changes relative to the lunacy of the first 5 pages of the thread. 

My singular post stands. 

Emotion of many posters is too high n irrational.  Some could argue the rebuild took too long and maybe he didnt recruit to the level he should have early.  But, personally, i thought Wojo coached his ass off in yr 3 and that team had no business in the NCAAs.  Team of misfits with questionable toughness and divergent player agendas.  Last year was a little disappointing as i thought either the Depaul game or the home Provi game gets us into the dance and we couldnt get out of second gear.
My only real criticism of Wojo has been his handling of Henry, i think he allowed Henry n in fact encouraged it, maybe trying to catch lightening in a bottle, to be an absolute ball hog and chucker at the expense of his teammates and team.  While no where near great n not a tourney team,  i think that team underperformed as Henry played out of the position that best fit the team and in a position that best fit his draft status and was allowed to be a chucker with no conscience despite the numbers.

[MU82]

I certainly hope we don't have to regret all these bumps in a few hours after being boatraced at Butler.

That's the thing, though.

I think we're gonna win tonight. I think it as a fan, of course. But I objectively think we're the better team, we're playing better right now, we know how to win, and we're ready to finally get one at Hinkle (just as we were ready to finally win 4 big NC games, to win 3+ BE games in a row, etc).

But if I'm wrong -- and I certainly could be, given that several ranked teams get upset every night, and given that the better team doesn't always win, especially on the road -- I won't feel one iota outraged by one road loss during a long, otherwise successful season. Nor will I "regret" these bumps, which showed a pretty sizable chunk of our fan base throwing away the season just a few games into it.

If we fall tonight, plenty of Scoopers will lose their $hit. Wojo is horrible, this player or that is the worst at his position (by far!), and so on. I mean, one guy here spent about 3 pages ripping Wojo for a game-tying play that worked!

Hey, I understand it's how some fans deal with whatever personal demons they face, but it's nonetheless always interesting (for lack of better word).

[NorthernDancerColt]

Congrats on applying to dental school for 32 straight years and finally breaking through!

Speaking of dental school....this BUMP piqued my interest, so I closed my eyes and blindly scrolled to a random old thread and clicked. The heading was “Coach Crean to appear at book signing in Mequon” and it was from 2006.

In that thread 4EverWarriors earned some huge points with me, not for his shtick, but with the consistency of his anti-Crean position. You won’t find him flip-flopping on da issues.... so, 4Ever goes....”Maybee I can be first in line. Oh, damn, I tink I have to get a root canal instead.” I burst out laughing.

You will never find 4Ever where-ing da flipfloppy sandils on FireExtendWojo Beach.

[rocket surgeon]

Speaking of dental school....this BUMP piqued my interest, so I closed my eyes and blindly scrolled to a random old thread and clicked. The heading was “Coach Crean to appear at book signing in Mequon” and it was from 2006.

In that thread 4EverWarriors earned some huge points with me, not for his shtick, but with the consistency of his anti-Crean position. You won’t find him flip-flopping on da issues.... so, 4Ever goes....”Maybee I can be first in line. Oh, damn, I tink I have to get a root canal instead.” I burst out laughing.

You will never find 4Ever where-ing da flipfloppy sandils on FireExtendWojo Beach.

When 4ever talks...people listen.  Da man ain’t got a “knee-jerk” bone in his body, except his sense of humor, which is where it belongs der eyn’a

[79Warrior]

That's the thing, though.

I think we're gonna win tonight. I think it as a fan, of course. But I objectively think we're the better team, we're playing better right now, we know how to win, and we're ready to finally get one at Hinkle (just as we were ready to finally win 4 big NC games, to win 3+ BE games in a row, etc).

But if I'm wrong -- and I certainly could be, given that several ranked teams get upset every night, and given that the better team doesn't always win, especially on the road -- I won't feel one iota outraged by one road loss during a long, otherwise successful season. Nor will I "regret" these bumps, which showed a pretty sizable chunk of our fan base throwing away the season just a few games into it.

If we fall tonight, plenty of Scoopers will lose their $hit. Wojo is horrible, this player or that is the worst at his position (by far!), and so on. I mean, one guy here spent about 3 pages ripping Wojo for a game-tying play that worked!

Hey, I understand it's how some fans deal with whatever personal demons they face, but it's nonetheless always interesting (for lack of better word).

I am ok if we lose tonight. It is very unrealistic to think we win every road game. That said, if we do win this evening, I believe we will win the BE regular season title..

[MU82]

I am ok if we lose tonight. It is very unrealistic to think we win every road game. That said, if we do win this evening, I believe we will win the BE regular season title..

Reasonable take.

As big an optimist as I am, I'm also realistic. I highly doubt we will go 17-1 in conference play this season. Losing at Butler wouldn't stun me, and it obviously wouldn't stun the oddsmakers, who don't even think it would be an upset.

But I truly think we're gonna win unless Butler really steps up their game (based on what I've seen recently) and we play quite poorly.

Xavier couldn't have played much better than they did for most of our last game, and we were quite awful, and yet the better team ultimately won. I think a similar scenario could take place tonight ... though I hope we just wax 'em and win by 20+!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When 4ever talks...people listen.

We do. But we can't understand what he's saying!

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Butler is not very good.  However, Hinkle is really loud and they feed on their crowd energy.
Sort of like when Nova comes to Milwaukee the anticipation will be big, they will be looking to turn their season around, we now have a big target on our backs and have the potential to be that big win that all teams are looking for to add to a March resume

[MomofMUltiples]

Butler is not very good.  However, Hinkle is really loud and they feed on their crowd energy.
Sort of like when Nova comes to Milwaukee the anticipation will be big, they will be looking to turn their season around, we now have a big target on our backs and have the potential to be that big win that all teams are looking for to add to a March resume

So how many stay home because of the cold?  I'm arguing with myself right now on whether I go out to see Minnesota/Illinois tonight.

[Marcus92]

My expectations at the beginning of the year were 21-10 (10-8 in the Big East) going into the conference tourney, punch our NCAA ticket, earn a 7 or 8 seed, maybe get a win, maybe not. Clear, significant improvement -- but nothing too dramatic. A step forward, not a big leap. Enjoy the season and look forward to something special in 2019-20.

The ceiling for this team now looks to be much higher. Finishing just 5-5 in the Big East would put us at 23-8 (12-6) going into the conference tournament. KenPom predicts a game better than that. And I suspect the metrics may undervalue this team. There is still room for improvement. A 3 or 4 seed (or even better) is now a realistic possibility.

Loving the season so far and couldn't be happier to be wrong.

[warriorchick]

So how many stay home because of the cold?  I'm arguing with myself right now on whether I go out to see Minnesota/Illinois tonight.

Or they are passed out from drinking all day in their dorm room?

[Osiris]

“I can't speak for others, but in my evaluation, we have enough evidence to say that Wojo is a "C-level" coach. ”


  This is why heart cannot be evaluated.  My first advisor at MU told me that I wasn’t going to get into dental school and should think of some other profession....33 years later...either the guy was a lazy knob or the best motivational speaker you’ll ever find, but I immediately fired him and found a different advisor

So Rocket Surgeon is actually a socket surgeon?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

When 4ever talks...people listen.  Da man ain’t got a “knee-jerk” bone in his body, except his sense of humor, which is where it belongs der eyn’a

Ignore is a great function

[Cheeks]

So how many stay home because of the cold?  I'm arguing with myself right now on whether I go out to see Minnesota/Illinois tonight.

Had to go in, 66 degrees may keep some So Cal people at home, but braved it.

[muwarrior69]

Had to go in, 66 degrees may keep some So Cal people at home, but braved it.

What's the wind chill!

[rocket surgeon]

We do. But we can't understand what he's saying!

😂👍

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1090796117292449792

Check out Dauster's last line.

[Ardmore Mug]

He also tweeted:

"You're probably going to want to tune into the second half of Marquette-Butler. Markus Howard is having one of those nights. 19 already."

[Herman Cain]

Even if we lose to Butler, nothing changes relative to the lunacy of the first 5 pages of the thread. 

My singular post stands. 

Emotion of many posters is too high n irrational.  Some could argue the rebuild took too long and maybe he didnt recruit to the level he should have early.  But, personally, i thought Wojo coached his ass off in yr 3 and that team had no business in the NCAAs.  Team of misfits with questionable toughness and divergent player agendas.  Last year was a little disappointing as i thought either the Depaul game or the home Provi game gets us into the dance and we couldnt get out of second gear.
My only real criticism of Wojo has been his handling of Henry, i think he allowed Henry n in fact encouraged it, maybe trying to catch lightening in a bottle, to be an absolute ball hog and chucker at the expense of his teammates and team.  While no where near great n not a tourney team,  i think that team underperformed as Henry played out of the position that best fit the team and in a position that best fit his draft status and was allowed to be a chucker with no conscience despite the numbers.

I agree with this analysis.

[Cheeks]

What's the wind chill!

65.8

[dgies9156]

Ok, I was really concerned after the Indiana game. If viewed in light of last year's disappointment, then  yes, it was cause for concern. However, if Indiana is viewed as we've laid an egg like that game every year I can remember, it was a fixable problem or as many say, "a teachable moment."

Morale of the story: It's a long season.

Just like many were ready to torch Wojo after Indiana, I wouldn't quite be ready to build the Wojo Annex to the McGuire Center either. We're back to where most of us want our Warriors to be, but the challenge now (and our coach knows this) is to sustain our success across multiple years. Coach has found the right mix of people to lead and has coached them very well this season.

But basketball is like business: "What have you done for me lately?" Either our coach sustains and builds on this success he's having or a heck of a lot more "Year 2 (Archie), Year 5 Wojo" streams will appear.

Incidentally, would Archie like to trade places with Wojo right now? Wojo: eight game winning streak, 10th rank team in the country, lots of newfound attention, talk of deep in the tournament, talk of as high as a 3 seed. Archie: Losers of their last seven games; 12-9 record; lost last night to ... get this... Rutgers; real concern that if the ship is not righted soon, going to be an NIT team, or less!

You betcha he would!

[rocket surgeon]

I remember saying in a post( too lazy to look up) something to the effect of what wojo and the team does with the loss to st johnnies...well, I think we know now.  We’ve ripped 8 in a row and guess who’s coming to town...yup!  Time to give ema little home town medicine from our last loss.  Careful however, Johnny has been on a little skid since and cannot be taken for granted, but I like our chances at #9 in a row

[MU82]

Ok, I was really concerned after the Indiana game. If viewed in light of last year's disappointment, then  yes, it was cause for concern. However, if Indiana is viewed as we've laid an egg like that game every year I can remember, it was a fixable problem or as many say, "a teachable moment."

Morale of the story: It's a long season.

Just like many were ready to torch Wojo after Indiana, I wouldn't quite be ready to build the Wojo Annex to the McGuire Center either. We're back to where most of us want our Warriors to be, but the challenge now (and our coach knows this) is to sustain our success across multiple years. Coach has found the right mix of people to lead and has coached them very well this season.

But basketball is like business: "What have you done for me lately?" Either our coach sustains and builds on this success he's having or a heck of a lot more "Year 2 (Archie), Year 5 Wojo" streams will appear.

Incidentally, would Archie like to trade places with Wojo right now? Wojo: eight game winning streak, 10th rank team in the country, lots of newfound attention, talk of deep in the tournament, talk of as high as a 3 seed. Archie: Losers of their last seven games; 12-9 record; lost last night to ... get this... Rutgers; real concern that if the ship is not righted soon, going to be an NIT team, or less!

You betcha he would!

Reasonable post, dg.

Although I have fun taking 20/20 hindsight looks back at some of these threads that tower bumped, I truly do understand why there was some doom and gloom after the Indiana blowout. After making the tourney in 2017, we took a little step backward last season and then, just a few games into this season, we get run out of the gym by a team that wasn't supposed to be better than ours. So I get it.

My problem was this:

There were a lot of folks on here who never gave Wojo a chance from Day 1. They were disappointed we didn't get Shaka, and thought that by hiring an assistant over a big-name guy, we were "settling." The fact that the assistant was a Dookie only fueled the prejudgment for some Scoopers. So Wojo started with 2 strikes in the eyes of many, and every time there was a real or perceived misstep he was ripped. Every single season, starting with the first, there were "Fire Wojo!" posts here. And after the Indiana game, it just gave the rippers another opportunity.

I happen to have always been in the "I like the Wojo hire" camp. I know it could have gone the other way. Heck, maybe if we lose to Louisville it would have; we'll never know. But I assure you that while I appreciate the way Wojo has rebuilt our program, I am not ready to build statues of him. And I have criticized him at times (I never liked having Heldt hedge out to half-court; I thought he played Derrick way too much; I disliked the way he treated a student reporter; etc.) Just because I think he's doing a fine job doesn't mean he is beyond criticism. In part, that's what fan boards are for.

Besides, as you say, sports is a "what have you done for us lately?" business. Getting a commitment from Torrence and being in on numerous other big-time recruits is a nice start to "lately." So is 19-3/8-1. What do you have for us next, Wojo?

I like to think that even some of Wojo's harshest critics will look at how the process has unfolded and will now be willing to climb on board the bandwagon. I like to think they realize that we -- like every other ranked team in the nation -- might lose a game or two we "shouldn't" without feeling the need to say our coach should be fired.

Hey, I know guys like Ners, who thinks he invented basketball, and willie, who somehow gets joy out of total joylessness, will never give Wojo a chance. They are lost causes.

Nevertheless, I am heartened by folks like you -- who are maybe still a tad skeptical but who are starting to let yourselves think that maybe, just maybe, Wojo can get 'er done.

[Its DJOver]

My problem was this:

There were a lot of folks on here who never gave Wojo a chance from Day 1. They were disappointed we didn't get Shaka, and thought that by hiring an assistant over a big-name guy, we were "settling." The fact that the assistant was a Dookie only fueled the prejudgment for some Scoopers. So Wojo started with 2 strikes in the eyes of many, and every time there was a real or perceived misstep he was ripped. Every single season, starting with the first, there were "Fire Wojo!" posts here. And after the Indiana game, it just gave the rippers another opportunity.

I believe that there were quite a few in this camp for exactly the reasons that you point out.  They'll never admit it because of the success that Wojo is having this year, and the struggles that Shaka has had, but they're out there. 

[dgies9156]

If it were up to me, I'd of gone out and found the best version of Al McGuire out there today, whoever he or she is. Fortunately, it's not up to me and not sure today's world would tolerate a coach who mixed it up the way Al did. Heck, Al physically attacked a couple of his players... and all Bob Knight did was get fired for grabbing, mildly choking and pushing a kid. Or throwing a chair.

Hell, Al got two technical fouls in a National Championship game!

The reality is we hired Wojo five years ago. I know I fussed at times because the process was slower than I wanted it to be. I never questioned Wojo's coaching or recruiting ability but I also never expected it would take five years to get where we are. Then again, I'm not the one out there trying to rebuild a palace from the toxic waste dump the Hillbilly left.

Do I think we misfired on Henry? Hell yes, I do. He needed at least another year in college to refine a limited game and he needed to realize he wasn't at Rice Lake High School and the guys in the blue uniforms weren't from Spooner. They were from Philadelphia and they all had bad attitudes. Wojo probably would admit today he needed to sit Henry until Henry learned to be less selfish

But getting Henry into Marquette and allowing him some freedom on a bad team probably paved the way for some of our other higher profile recruits. It also gave us hope as a bad year progressed. That's the lasting legacy of Henry.

Since then, Wojo has grown with our team, like all of us do. I'm more impressed with him each day and if we can sustain his success, we really do have something here. No, for heaven's sake, don't start with the "Wojo is going to _______" threads!