Is this it for Henry?

[CTWarrior]

Yeah I don't think Blue would have made that much of a difference.  That team wasn't as good as advertised even with him.

Agree with this.  Team would have been better, but probably NIT better, not NCAA better.

I never thought Henry was much of an NBA prospect due to lack of athleticism and no one specific great skill (though he was a terrific rebounder in college), but I am constantly wrong about these things.  I always thought Bentil from Providence would turn out to be an NBA guy and couldn't understand why anyone would rather have Henry.

[tower912]

Disagree.  A senior PG able to get his own shot would have transformed that team.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yeah I don't think Blue would have made that much of a difference.  That team wasn't as good as advertised even with him.

Agree with this.  Team would have been better, but probably NIT better, not NCAA better.

I never thought Henry was much of an NBA prospect due to lack of athleticism and no one specific great skill (though he was a terrific rebounder in college), but I am constantly wrong about these things.  I always thought Bentil from Providence would turn out to be an NBA guy and couldn't understand why anyone would rather have Henry.

Disagree. I think Blue would have started at the point, pushing Derrick to the bench and the result would have been not just a NCAA team but one with a top 8 seed. That team lost 6 games by a single possession including 2 in OT and 2 in 2OT. Blue could have easily been the difference in all of those losses. 6 more wins would have given them a 23-8 record with a win over eventual 2 seed Villanova and their worst loss being @St. John's, who was in the first four out of the tournament that season.

Of course there is no way to guarantee it plays out this way but its reasonable to think that Blue could have led to several more wins.

[MerrittsMustache]

Disagree.  A senior PG able to get his own shot would have transformed that team.

This. A player of Blue's caliber would have definitely made a huge impact. That team went 17-15 with 4 OT losses. Looking at nothing else, if MU wins 2 of those OT games, they're dancing.

[MU82]

Your opinion sums up what I believe has changed for the worse in the way everyone views sports talents compared with a generation ago.  It used to be that most players blessed with this premier talent played to win, for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be.  Yes if they did all these things and progressed to the professional level they would be well compensated but that wasn't the primary thing they were striving for.  Now its changed so that a player with talent and the people around him are primarily focused on How can we turn this into as much money as possible as quickly as possible.  Making sure I get the money pushes everything else out of the picture.  Which is why we see guys leaving too early, skipping bowl games for fear of possible injury etc.  I remember when players leaving early were categorized as "hardship".  The family economic situation was so bad that they had no choice but to leave early.  Now its not about being desperate.  EVERYBODY is focused on what pays out earliest with least risk.
If Henry had stayed his shot might of gotten worse.  Or for that matter it might have gotten better.  He might have lead his team to big wins, won more conference and national honors, been team leader, hero for the fans, had kids wear jerseys with his name and number on them.  But none of that matters if its all about maximizing payout.

I was a big Yankees fan in the 1970s. I promise you that Reggie, Goose, Catfish, etc, etc, etc were QUITE motivated by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Marvin Webster didn't choose the Knicks in 1978 "for the love of the game and to continually progress towards being the best at their sport they could be." He chose them because they threw obscene (for the times) money at him.

In 1972, Bobby Hull left the city and team he claimed to love to go to the WHA. Why? For a paycheck. Larry Csonka and Paul Warfield left a Dolphins dynasty in 1974 to go play in the WFL. Hull, Csonka and Warfield were hardly alone, as numerous players left NHL and NFL teams for inferior leagues. Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Drysdale and Koufax threatened to ruin the Dodgers' chance of success by holding out in an era when such a thing was considered unthinkable.

Moses Malone skipped college for the paycheck. He went to the Sixers in 1982 for the paycheck and to the Hawks in 1988 for the paycheck.

Any of us could cite hundreds of other examples, especially from the 1970s and 1980s.

Respectfully, I posit that you are erroneously assigning cliche-version character to athletes from previous generations, perhaps because you wish it were true.

Of course there are rare exceptions, but when it comes to going for the paycheck first, NOTHING has changed for this generation. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
 

[Class71]

And if this helps JB whine less, Henry's $3,000,000 would be the equivalent of over 40 years of the AVERAGE household income of $73,298. So yeah...decades and decades of money. If you can't stretch that much money for at least a good long while, you just suck at life.

You may want to consider inflation over 40 years. 60k today will be a small number in real terms 40 years out. Add that to the real temptation to spend more up front. Key is to invest wisely and then live off the income, not touching the principle. 3m is a great start but not the end all. Ask a retiree what inflation can do.

[dgies9156]

I think Wade and Blue would have driven a much more impactful final result for MU had they stayed.

No.

Nobody will ever know, but I believe Henry was programmed for 2 years. Had he stayed, the rebuild would have been faster and more complete. WIthout him, we floundered as our guys were young and tried to find their way.

Blue would have helped but there was something inherently wrong with the last Hillbilly team. And, with the Hillbilly generally unable to get jucos, the probability Blue would have dramatically changed that team was remote.

And, of course, we had Todd Mayo!

[Nukem2]

No.

Nobody will ever know, but I believe Henry was programmed for 2 years. Had he stayed, the rebuild would have been faster and more complete. WIthout him, we floundered as our guys were young and tried to find their way.

Blue would have helped but there was something inherently wrong with the last Hillbilly team. And, with the Hillbilly generally unable to get jucos, the probability Blue would have dramatically changed that team was remote.

And, of course, we had Todd Mayo!

Having Blue over Jake would have made a huge difference.

[MerrittsMustache]

Nobody will ever know, but I believe Henry was programmed for 2 years. Had he stayed, the rebuild would have been faster and more complete. WIthout him, we floundered as our guys were young and tried to find their way.

The Ellensons likely set the MU program back. Wally was only here to net Henry, which he did, but he added nothing else while eating up a scholarship for 2 season. Henry's lone season ended up basically being a personal showcase on a bad team. Those 2 scholarships could have been used (in theory) on players who were a junior and senior in the program last season. Maybe they end up being Jordan Murphy and Ben Lammers and MU is a top 10 team (highly unlikely) or maybe they end up being a couple of eventual transfers who prevent MU from landing a couple current impact players. We'll obviously never know but I feel confident in saying that the Ellensons did very little to improve the Marquette basketball program in the big picture. At the same time, I don't fault Wojo one iota for bringing them in. It just didn't work out as well as it potentially could (should?) have.

[brewcity77]

Having Blue over Jake would have made a huge difference.

Agree 100%.

The problem with that team wasn't Derrick and it wasn't Jake, it was Derrick and Jake. We could've been good with either one if Blue was the other guard. We had two guards that couldn't score consistently. Whether Blue was still in his SG role alongside a plus defender in Derrick or was a slashing PG that could get the ball to the sharpshooter in Jake, it would've worked much better.

History tells us Jake would've left, but either way, Blue was exactly what that team needed. I think him leaving was one more thing to jumpstart Buzz's departure.

[GGGG]

Agree 100%.

The problem with that team wasn't Derrick and it wasn't Jake, it was Derrick and Jake. We could've been good with either one if Blue was the other guard. We had two guards that couldn't score consistently. Whether Blue was still in his SG role alongside a plus defender in Derrick or was a slashing PG that could get the ball to the sharpshooter in Jake, it would've worked much better.

History tells us Jake would've left, but either way, Blue was exactly what that team needed. I think him leaving was one more thing to jumpstart Buzz's departure.

That is a reasonable response.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Love the trip down memory lane.  The other big if from that season had Jameel McKay stayed.  If that MU team had both Blue and McKay, boy, talk about a different season.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Personally, I think Henry's pro game has gone about as I expected.  As to his 'one and done' decision, I think we mostly saw that coming in.  Look, Henry's brief stint here at MU will always be remembered for providing MU nation with a brief relief from what was an otherwise forgettable early Wojo rebuilding era.  Each side got what they needed out of it.  And then each side moved on.  Of all of MU's NBA players, I'm most indifferent about Henry.  A MU rental.  I wish him the best.

Same.  I don't have time to dig up my posts about Henry from when he left, but things have gone about how I expected.  He was a talented big, but a tweener in the NBA.   He was never going to blossom into star unless he drastically improved his shooting, defense and general toughness.  Bummed to see its turned out that way, but I am hardly surprised. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

And if this helps JB whine less, Henry's $3,000,000 would be the equivalent of over 40 years of the AVERAGE household income of $73,298. So yeah...decades and decades of money. If you can't stretch that much money for at least a good long while, you just suck at life.

orrrr...you live like a 20 year old kid who was just given $3M and plays in the NBA. I get what you're saying, but these things aren't exactly equivilant. 

Henry probably isn't driving a 04 Honda Civic and living in some mid-tier apartment complex. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Love the trip down memory lane.  The other big if from that season had Jameel McKay stayed.  If that MU team had both Blue and McKay, boy, talk about a different season.

And the Toddler and TJ Taylor. Don't underestimate the impact the extra judicial academic rules imposed had on the program for better or worse. Vander wasn't too pleased with them either. Jake and Derrick were always to be situational players.

Buzz said at the time that the changes set the program back a couple of years.  In reality, it has been five years and counting as MU has moved on to higher caliber academic student athletes. The reality is it has taken a long time to cycle through, and thankfully, this is the year of the turnaround we hope.

Btw, I had the opportunity to talk to Jake fairly recently and he said he would have loved to have played a year under Wojo.  Let's face it, Buzz had his last team on a short leash in regards to tempo and shot selection. The boos heard for those players was not one of MU fandom's greatest moments. Their coach and administration let them all down.

[Newsdreams]

It's his mom's fault.

Smoke and mirrors, hey?

[MUBigDance]

Not having read the whole thread (just the beginning and the last few posts):

my 2 cents...and the same as a lot of you...Henry didnt unpack his bags as Wojo said and hoped (but I can't believe Wojo really thought it). Ellensons used MU for their purposes. It was efficient, not mean, but their purposes....just like Stone at Maryland and a bunch of other one-n-done guys not destined for greatness but great basketball players.

I think he is done as well...but I can't say I knew it until I saw him shooting NBA 3s at 20%...It seemed like he could shoot from distance ... thought not hitting at MU was just bad luck ...but he never could shoot really. It was that and his inability to Jump that should have been the clues.

If you could cross the elevation of Wally with the size and skill of Henry, you would have something even without the shot. But that isn't the way it is.

[MerrittsMustache]

Not having read the whole thread (just the beginning and the last few posts):

my 2 cents...and the same as a lot of you...Henry didnt unpack his bags as Wojo said and hoped (but I can't believe Wojo really thought it). Ellensons used MU for their purposes. It was efficient, not mean, but their purposes....just like Stone at Maryland and a bunch of other one-n-done guys not destined for greatness but great basketball players.

I think he is done as well...but I can't say I knew it until I saw him shooting NBA 3s at 20%...It seemed like he could shoot from distance ... thought not hitting at MU was just bad luck ...but he never could shoot really. It was that and his inability to Jump that should have been the clues.

If you could cross the elevation of Wally with the size and skill of Henry, you would have something even without the shot. But that isn't the way it is.

I honestly think that part of Henry's issue is that he set out to be a so-called "Stretch 4" from the beginning. He wasn't a post player who later developed an outside shot and evolved into that role. He was a near 7-footer who wanted to be a perimeter player but lacks the quickness and shot to do so and he never really developed an interior game. Without the ability to shoot from the outside, he has nothing to fall back on but a big body.

Looking at some other NBA bigs...

Kevin Love didn't really start shooting 3s at a high rate until his 4th season in the NBA
Brook Lopez - 9th
Al Horford - 9th
Paul Millsap - 8th
Blake Griffin - 7th
Boogie Cousins - 6th
Channing Frye - 5th
Anthony Davis - 4th (and still only about 2/game)

[jsglow]

The other thing I will remember:  MU went out of its way to be generous with Wally.  Wojo did the right thing in my mind by insisting that he fully commit to #mubb if he wanted a scholarship.  And when he couldn't or wouldn't do that, the university graciously created a viable Plan B.  If the Ellenson family was annoyed and thought more was owed, move along, because it wasn't.

[Galway Eagle]

Yeah I don't think Blue would have made that much of a difference.  That team wasn't as good as advertised even with him.

After it being pointed out that we lost a ton of games in OT, I do question whether Blue could've got us over the hump like Lazar did with that 09-10 team's 3OT wins in a row. But I'm still not 100% sold.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I honestly think that part of Henry's issue is that he set out to be a so-called "Stretch 4" from the beginning. He wasn't a post player who later developed an outside shot and evolved into that role. He was a near 7-footer who wanted to be a perimeter player but lacks the quickness and shot to do so and he never really developed an interior game. Without the ability to shoot from the outside, he has nothing to fall back on but a big body.

Looking at some other NBA bigs...

Kevin Love didn't really start shooting 3s at a high rate until his 4th season in the NBA
Brook Lopez - 9th
Al Horford - 9th
Paul Millsap - 8th
Blake Griffin - 7th
Boogie Cousins - 6th
Channing Frye - 5th
Anthony Davis - 4th (and still only about 2/game)

I don't disagree, but wouldn't you also say those big men you listed developed those three pointers because they had to in order adapt to the new style of playing the game? Traditional back to the basket bigs are no longer valued in today's NBA, especially if you are PF sized. It could be argued that if they were drafted the same year as Henry, they would have forced being a stretch four as well....otherwise they might not have been drafted. Similarly, you could say that Henry might not have forced it if he was being drafted 10 years ago.

[NotAnAlum]

Expand beyond sports and you have America today.

Absolutely agree.  EVERYBODY in every professional is now focused on "how can I cash out quick".
And yes it has changed a lot in the last 40 years and in the last 20 years.  Its been getting much worse.
The reason I chose to call it out in this case is that the more we universally agree that this is the way everyone should behave it further embeds it in our culture.  There is another way and it actually used to be the norm.

[wadesworld]

 

[MU82]

Absolutely agree.  EVERYBODY in every professional is now focused on "how can I cash out quick".
And yes it has changed a lot in the last 40 years and in the last 20 years.  Its been getting much worse.

Nope

[rocket surgeon]

What exactly do you think Henry will be doing again?

Subliminal eyn’a?  Yeah, that didn’t come out the way it sposed to kinda like when the tv guys note a player is getting a little winded-looks like he needs to come out for a blow