"MU continues to move away from its roots"

[Pakuni]

as we are seeing today, brown vs. the board, although it had nothing but good intentions, is not turning out to be what they had envisioned, eyn'a?

 

Oh?
Please, do tell more.

[Galway Eagle]

Institutional racism and sexism was wholesome, while integration was bad? 

Are you trolling, or really this ignorant?

There's a lot more than that that was messed up. See lavender scare, or McCarthyism.

[GGGG]

i've got to think that it was in fact the prevailing morality and wholesome attitudes of the 50's along with the economic growth and prosperity that set the basis for improvement within the fields of medicine, birth rates and continued improvement in race relations.  as we are seeing today, brown vs. the board, although it had nothing but good intentions, is not turning out to be what they had envisioned, eyn'a? 

Wow.

Anyway yes.  While it has solved the issue of segregation by law, it has not solved the issue of de facto segregation.  People with means, who are mostly white, have largely abandoned large city school districts for suburban public schools and private schools.  On top of that, we have had tax policies that favor the two latter at the expense of the former.

[MUfan12]

I had two as well.  Constitutional Law and Civil Liberties.  And they were hard.  But you are correct - he made it riveting.  I remember spending hours in the Library reading those court cases trying to figure out what they were about.  He would have a quiz every Friday on the readings for the week - and he wouldn't get around to talking about those cases until the *next* week.

I had friends who went on to law school after, and said that Wolfe's classes were as difficult, if not more than their constitutional law classes.

Civil Liberties and the JFK Assassination course were my two favorite classes I had at MU. Very, very interesting discussions and coursework.

[GGGG]

I wouldn't have pegged you a Wolfe fan.

I am all about college challenging your world view.  I was a west side Madison leftist when I got to MU and I was surprised by how conservative the place was.  But that helped me.  Going somewhere to simply reinforce your views doesn't educate you.  That's why I have zero sympathy to the guy who wrote this article.

[Galway Eagle]

I am all about college challenging your world view.  I was a west side Madison leftist when I got to MU and I was surprised by how conservative the place was.  But that helped me.  Going somewhere to simply reinforce your views doesn't educate you.  That's why I have zero sympathy to the guy who wrote this article.

+1 went to one of the most liberal high schools imaginable. Had only met 2 conservative non family members in my life and was majorly culture shocked by how conservative everyone my age was at MU freshman year. I didn't leave and go to Art school or anything.

[g0lden3agle]

+1 went to one of the most liberal high schools imaginable. Had only met 2 conservative non family members in my life and was majorly culture shocked by how conservative everyone my age was at MU freshman year. I didn't leave and go to Art school or anything.

I'm interested, do you have a few examples how how conservative everyone your age was?  Trying to gauge what this means.

edit:  As I think about it prob best to message me to prevent a thread lock

[Jockey]

Wow. "Morality and wholesome attitudes" = state sponsored segregation. Good to understand where you're coming from. Your posts make a lot more sense now.

I've been saying it for a while. Plain as day.

[Billy Hoyle]

I had two as well.  Constitutional Law and Civil Liberties.  And they were hard.  But you are correct - he made it riveting.  I remember spending hours in the Library reading those court cases trying to figure out what they were about.  He would have a quiz every Friday on the readings for the week - and he wouldn't get around to talking about those cases until the *next* week.

Yep, those damn quizzes. I'd get up early on Friday mornings to study at Stone Creek Coffee to prepare for them.....after studying at the law library the night before.  He'd have quotes and might change one word and you had to catch that.  I worked harder for an A in that class than any other at MU, with the possible exception of Western Civ with Naylor.

Looking back on my Poli Sci days, the professors that were on the right advertised it (McAdams, Wolfe, Dobbs and the other Poli Sci 080 prof, can't remember his name), but other than Boles (and maybe O'Brien, though he left for Aspin midway through my time there), those who weren't that I had we didn't know where they fell on the spectrum (Steger, McCormick, Friman and one other I cannot remember - Congress class).

The right has instilled such a persecution complex in students today, it's how they keep them around.  Challenging their worldview is "bias" and "discrimination." They call leftists snowflakes and yet here's this kid leaving school because he doesn't like signs that a professor has on their door or that a professor was disciplined for causing a TA to get death threats!  But, it will work out for the kid - he has likely been put up to this by some organization and he'll become the new poster child for the education hating right. He'll get a nice internship, speak at their organizations, probably go to work at some bogus "think tank" to warn kids of the dangers of higher education. 

[rocket surgeon]

Wow.

Anyway yes.  While it has solved the issue of segregation by law, it has not solved the issue of de facto segregation.  People with means, who are mostly white, have largely abandoned large city school districts for suburban public schools and private schools.  On top of that, we have had tax policies that favor the two latter at the expense of the former.

what i was saying was, the 50's have always been looked back upon as a wholesome time.  it was a good time to raise a family.   were there issues?  absolutely.  i'm just saying, they had ozzie and harriet and leave it beaver.  today we have the kardashians.  as for brown vs board-i knew this would be picked upon.  i never sad it was good, bad or indifferent.  i never said it shouldn't have occured.   

   so predictable as the usual suspects are quick to try to shine the racist light on me-feel better?  listen-at least sully got what i was saying...i think.  the supreme court wanted to try to end school segregation, which it did.  i have no problems with that-sorry to disappoint our resident cop-hater et.al.  now, as sully also pointed out, many people fled the inner city schools for a variety of reasons which kind of defeated the purpose of brown vs board.   i don't care whether or not tax policies favored people fleeing anything-it happened for a variety of reasons.  even black people left-shock!

[Galway Eagle]

I'm interested, do you have a few examples how how conservative everyone your age was?  Trying to gauge what this means.

edit:  As I think about it prob best to message me to prevent a thread lock

Done

[Pakuni]

i'm just saying, they had ozzie and harriet and leave it beaver.  today we have the kardashians.   

FYI ... these are television shows, not accurate reflections of American life.

[tower912]

I knew a statement would be picked on.  Some familiar names picked on it.  I am a victim and not what they allege based on the statement I made that I knew would draw reactions.

[jesmu84]

what i was saying was, the 50's have always been looked back upon as a wholesome time.  it was a good time to raise a family.   were there issues?  absolutely.  i'm just saying, they had ozzie and harriet and leave it beaver.  today we have the kardashians.  as for brown vs board-i knew this would be picked upon.  i never sad it was good, bad or indifferent.  i never said it shouldn't have occured.   

   so predictable as the usual suspects are quick to try to shine the racist light on me-feel better?  listen-at least sully got what i was saying...i think.  the supreme court wanted to try to end school segregation, which it did.  i have no problems with that-sorry to disappoint our resident cop-hater et.al.  now, as sully also pointed out, many people fled the inner city schools for a variety of reasons which kind of defeated the purpose of brown vs board.   i don't care whether or not tax policies favored people fleeing anything-it happened for a variety of reasons.  even black people left-shock!

Do you honestly believe non-whites or non-heterosexuals would view the 50s as "wholesome"?

[Billy Hoyle]

what i was saying was, the 50's have always been looked back upon as a wholesome time.  it was a good time to raise a family.   were there issues?  absolutely.  i'm just saying, they had ozzie and harriet and leave it beaver.  today we have the kardashians.  as for brown vs board-i knew this would be picked upon.  i never sad it was good, bad or indifferent.  i never said it shouldn't have occured.   

   so predictable as the usual suspects are quick to try to shine the racist light on me-feel better?  listen-at least sully got what i was saying...i think.  the supreme court wanted to try to end school segregation, which it did.  i have no problems with that-sorry to disappoint our resident cop-hater et.al.  now, as sully also pointed out, many people fled the inner city schools for a variety of reasons which kind of defeated the purpose of brown vs board.   i don't care whether or not tax policies favored people fleeing anything-it happened for a variety of reasons.  even black people left-shock!

the right loves to romanticize the 50's and represent it as something that didn't actually exist.

Ozzie and Harriet and Leave it to Beaver?  You mean two shows that did not have any characters that weren't white or straight of have women that worked outside the home?  Yes, very "wholesome."  How about The Honeymooners and Jackie's constant threats of domestic violence against Alice, which drew laughs and cheers. Yes, what a family-friendly and wholesome show.

As for fleeing the cities, that was because highways and the interstate system along with more affordability of cars allowed people to do so. Of course, thanks to redlining, neighborhood watch groups and other racist policies, African-Americans weren't allowed to follow whites out to the suburbs while their neighbourhoods were destroyed through racist land use and development policies.

And let's not forget the great environmental policies of the 50's, such as dumping anything and everything into the air, lakes, rivers, and land. Because toxic chemicals would just disappear when you did that.

And it was great to be a woman.  If you were somehow allowed to work outside of the home it was in the most menial role not reserved for an African-American). And if your husband was abusive or unfaithful, well, tough luck, you knew what you signed up for. And forget about workplace protections (unless you were in a union).

Oh yeah, interracial marriage was illegal across the country, lynchings were commonplace in the south, "Separate but Equal" was in effect for public facilities and accommodations, most African-Americans had to attend HBCU's if they wanted to go to college.  What a time to be alive. 

[rocket surgeon]

the right loves to romanticize the 50's and represent it as something that didn't actually exist.

Ozzie and Harriet and Leave it to Beaver?  You mean two shows that did not have any characters that weren't white or straight of have women that worked outside the home?  Yes, very "wholesome."  How about The Honeymooners and Jackie's constant threats of domestic violence against Alice, which drew laughs and cheers. Yes, what a family-friendly and wholesome show.

As for fleeing the cities, that was because highways and the interstate system along with more affordability of cars allowed people to do so. Of course, thanks to redlining, neighborhood watch groups and other racist policies, African-Americans weren't allowed to follow whites out to the suburbs while their neighbourhoods were destroyed through racist land use and development policies.

And let's not forget the great environmental policies of the 50's, such as dumping anything and everything into the air, lakes, rivers, and land. Because toxic chemicals would just disappear when you did that.

And it was great to be a woman.  If you were somehow allowed to work outside of the home it was in the most menial role not reserved for an African-American). And if your husband was abusive or unfaithful, well, tough luck, you knew what you signed up for. And forget about workplace protections (unless you were in a union).

Oh yeah, interracial marriage was illegal across the country, lynchings were commonplace in the south, "Separate but Equal" was in effect for public facilities and accommodations, most African-Americans had to attend HBCU's if they wanted to go to college.  What a time to be alive. 

very easy to do in retrospect billy.  you make that all sound so easy.  foresight and hindsight are beautiful things.  "the right loves to romaticize the 50's..."  most articles written about the 50's do call it the golden age.  were things perfect?  absolutely not.  2 can play your game however.  the left loves to doom and gloom everything.  one can give fill in the blank program x amount of money and it will never be enough-touche! 

i am not a victim, but speaking of which billy, your whole statement was loaded with victims,  the honeymooners, pollution, misogyny, racism...what a terrible world we live in.  man i almost feel sorry for you how miserable everything is in your world. my previous statement which drew all kinds of gasps was neither right nor left.  wasn't racist, wasn't stating an opinion.  i bring up brown vs board and the red lights all go off

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Rocket, it's okay to say that there were good aspects of the 50s while also acknowledging that there were bad aspects for those from different backgrounds than yourself.

[buckchuckler]

nm

[GGGG]

as for brown vs board-i knew this would be picked upon.  i never sad it was good, bad or indifferent.

How on God's green earth could Brown v. Board of Education be considered anything but good? 

[rocket surgeon]

How on God's green earth could Brown v. Board of Education be considered anything but good?

come on sully, you're a smart fella- because, you have to admit there were some unintended consequences.  i would try to list a few but pardon me while i duck back into my bunker here while the rest of you get ready to unload on rocket da racist

[GGGG]

come on sully, you're a smart fella- because, you have to admit there were some unintended consequences.  i would try to list a few but pardon me while i duck back into my bunker here while the rest of you get ready to unload on rocket da racist

Like what?  What unintended consequences are you talking about?

[Hards Alumni]

Like what?  What unintended consequences are you talking about?

It's just the Ambien talking again. 

[WarriorDad]

I had 10 Jesuit professors through my 4 years at MU. How many Jesuits still teach at MU?

About that number for me, a few taught multiple classes so it was something like 10 Jebbies for 14 classes.

[WarriorDad]

i've got to think that it was in fact the prevailing morality and wholesome attitudes of the 50's along with the economic growth and prosperity that set the basis for improvement within the fields of medicine, birth rates and continued improvement in race relations.  as we are seeing today, brown vs. the board, although it had nothing but good intentions, is not turning out to be what they had envisioned, eyn'a?

   What were the bad results, exactly?

[dgies9156]

the right loves to romanticize the 50's and represent it as something that didn't actually exist.

The 1950s that were versus the 1950s that people think was clearly are different as night and day. Think about it in terms not of television but of what we know from our history and our experience:

* We began the decade in a war where our leadership so badly misjudged the geopolitical situation that we ended up with a near nuclear war with the world's third largest land power and ended in a stalemate that left us with Kim Jung-un.

* We spent close to 15 years wrestling with the meaning of Brown vs. Board as community after community interpreted "all due haste" to mean "never, ever, never."

* President Eisenhower sent the troops to Little Rock because the governor would not enforce the law.

* Thousands of people were blackballed from their profession because a loudmouth Senator from Wisconsin, a vile director of the FBI that blackmailed half of Washington and a host of other opportunists could not tell the difference between socialism and communism.

* Baseball was ruled by the New York Yankees until a Milwaukee team that doesn't exist in Milwaukee anymore dethroned them, for a time.
 
I don't know what's romantic about any of this. When you add to that the fact that the country was in the midst of its biggest population boom in history and half the world was rebuilding from a war that that was 5 to 15 years in the past and we had limited infrastructure to deal with the population boom at home and abroad and we had some real challenges.

Fortunately, our nation was up to the challenge. But it wasn't romantic!